Understanding The Book of Revelation from a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint perspective

[Clyde 154]

Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So the devil was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and he is still on the earth today after some 6000 years or so. To God and Satan this is a short time.

Again with the attempt to apply "literalism" to a book that self confesses to be a book of symbolism? You are correct... "TO GOD.....TO SATAN", both eternal spiritual beings, time is of no consequence. However the reality exists.......the book of revelation is addressed to men........the 7 churches of Asia.

Even your opinion concerning Rev. 12:12 starts and ends with an attempt @ misdirection........"Wo to the inhabiters of EARTH......for the seal of the devil is come down upon you......HAVING GREAT WRATH......." This symbolism points out that the seal for the devil has already come down with great wrath............... not at some point in the distant future. Thus.......who or what was persecuting the early church during the time of JOHN? THE ROMAN EMPIRE, which even then was beginning to fail, an Empire that within a few centuries would be overran by Barbarians. (era........376AD thru 476AD)

The symbolism points out the historical fact that SATAN/DEVIL indeed had a short time remaining to manipulate his favorite tool.........THE ROMAN EMPIRE. History tells us that the church eventually overran and took control of the Roman Empire......just as prophesied in the Book of Revelation (a book of symbolism). The church overcame the great tribulation known as the Roman Empire.

 

[onefour1]

The Battle of Armageddon: A Prophetic View

 

[Colin norris]

onefour1
Gees. You guys are going up on this God rubbish.

 

[ding]

onefour1
Gees. You guys are going up on this God rubbish.

I don't see how it could be any other way. It's not a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence.

 

[Colin norris]

ding
Oh. Excuse me. I've been following science and they are conducting experiments and discovered DNA and big bangs etc.
Why didn't you tell me you were comparing it with 2000 years old. How can modern science compete with that.
When I first read about immaculate conception and virgin births etc I thought it was rubbish. Not now.
I'll contact the science authorities this week and alert them to your groundbreaking discoveries. Even the rest of the world will no doubt be interested.What a revelation?

Mouthwatering advancements for the sake of humanity. Breath taking.

 

[ding]

ding
Oh. Excuse me. I've been following science and they are conducting experiments and discovered DNA and big bangs etc.
Why didn't you tell me you were comparing it with 2000 years old. How can modern science compete with that.
When I first read about immaculate conception and virgin births etc I thought it was rubbish. Not now.
I'll contact the science authorities this week and alert them to your groundbreaking discoveries. Even the rest of the world will no doubt be interested.What a revelation?

Mouthwatering advancements for the sake of humanity. Breath taking.

I've forgotten more science than you have ever known.

It's not a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence.

 

[Colin norris]

ding
Well, Einstein, tell us all exactly what happened. This should be good.

 

[ding]

ding
Well, Einstein, tell us all exactly what happened. This should be good.

The universe was created from nothing. It literally popped into existence 14 billion years ago hardwired to produce life and intelligence.

 

[Colin norris]

ding
Popped into existence. Just a simple pop.
Have you alerted science to your recent discovery,?

 

[surada]

Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So the devil was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and he is still on the earth today after some 6000 years or so. To God and Satan this is a short time.

Again with the attempt to apply "literalism" to a book that self confesses to be a book of symbolism? You are correct... "TO GOD.....TO SATAN", both eternal spiritual beings, time is of no consequence. However the reality exists.......the book of revelation is addressed to men........the 7 churches of Asia.

Even your opinion concerning Rev. 12:12 starts and ends with an attempt @ misdirection........"Wo to the inhabiters of EARTH......for the seal of the devil is come down upon you......HAVING GREAT WRATH......." This symbolism points out that the seal for the devil has already come down with great wrath............... not at some point in the distant future. Thus.......who or what was persecuting the early church during the time of JOHN? THE ROMAN EMPIRE, which even then was beginning to fail, an Empire that within a few centuries would be overran by Barbarians. (era........376AD thru 476AD)

The symbolism points out the historical fact that SATAN/DEVIL indeed had a short time remaining to manipulate his favorite tool.........THE ROMAN EMPIRE. History tells us that the church eventually overran and took control of the Roman Empire......just as prophesied in the Book of Revelation (a book of symbolism). The church overcame the great tribulation known as the Roman Empire.

The Romans didn't care about Jesus. He was no threat to them. The tribulation was over in 70 AD and it was limited to Jerusalem and the immediate area.

 

[ding]

ding
Popped into existence. Just a simple pop.
Have you alerted science to your recent discovery,?

In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[Colin norris]

ding
You seem to think I am opposing that.
My point is it just didn't pop into being. It was a bit bigger than a pop.

 

[ding]

ding
You seem to think I am opposing that.
My point is it just didn't pop into being. It was a bit bigger than a pop.

Actually it occupied the space of a single proton. So yes, it did literally pop into existence with all of the matter occupying the space of a single proton.

The universe began with nearly equal amounts of matter and anti matter. For every 1 billion anti matter particles there were 1 billion and 1 matter particles. The matter and anti matter particles annihilated each other releasing tremendous amounts of energy which propelled the remaining matter particles outward. We know this because the cosmic background radiation are the remnants of the matter / anti matter annihilation.

But more importantly the very fabric of matter is hardwired to produce life and intelligence. If electrons and protons did not have exactly the same opposite charges the universe could have been created in exactly the same way but it would have been impossible for life to have formed. If the electrons were not exactly the distance away from the nucleus the universe could have been created in exactly the same way but it would have been impossible for life to have formed.

 

[surada]

True but those dating techniques also carry their own assumptions which you would have to believe to accept them. It becomes as much a religion as any other. There is much debate that goes on regarding the dating of things in this world.

Are you a scientist?

 

[onefour1]

Are you a scientist?

I am not a scientist but there are plenty of scientists who have written much about the limitations of radometric dating and its flaws. I am however capable of reading their writings and understanding the flaws which they have written about on this subject.

Do you believe that God knows more than the scientists on this earth and that He is capable of revealing higher truths to prophets who have revealed his truths to mankind?

 

[DudleySmith]

I am not a scientist but there are plenty of scientists who have written much about the limitations of radometric dating and its flaws. I am however capable of reading their writings and understanding the flaws which they have written about on this subject.

Do you believe that God knows more than the scientists on this earth and that He is capable of revealing higher truths to prophets who have revealed his truths to mankind?

Yes, those methods still get increasingly inaccurate after 5,000 years or so, and of course trying to use DNA to measure timelines is even more absurd, but hey, fake science is better than real science when you're peddling rubbish like 'evolution' and other crank theories that have zero chains of evidence to back them up. Even those famous drawings showing all the alleged 'steps' in human evolution are admitted fakes by the artist who first made them famous, and deliberately made them look a lot more 'human' than they actually were at those stages.

 

[surada]

I am not a scientist but there are plenty of scientists who have written much about the limitations of radometric dating and its flaws. I am however capable of reading their writings and understanding the flaws which they have written about on this subject.

Do you believe that God knows more than the scientists on this earth and that He is capable of revealing higher truths to prophets who have revealed his truths to mankind?

There were schools for prophets all over Palestine from the time of King Saul.

 

[surada]

Again with the attempt to apply "literalism" to a book that self confesses to be a book of symbolism? You are correct... "TO GOD.....TO SATAN", both eternal spiritual beings, time is of no consequence. However the reality exists.......the book of revelation is addressed to men........the 7 churches of Asia.

Even your opinion concerning Rev. 12:12 starts and ends with an attempt @ misdirection........"Wo to the inhabiters of EARTH......for the seal of the devil is come down upon you......HAVING GREAT WRATH......." This symbolism points out that the seal for the devil has already come down with great wrath............... not at some point in the distant future. Thus.......who or what was persecuting the early church during the time of JOHN? THE ROMAN EMPIRE, which even then was beginning to fail, an Empire that within a few centuries would be overran by Barbarians. (era........376AD thru 476AD)

The symbolism points out the historical fact that SATAN/DEVIL indeed had a short time remaining to manipulate his favorite tool.........THE ROMAN EMPIRE. History tells us that the church eventually overran and took control of the Roman Empire......just as prophesied in the Book of Revelation (a book of symbolism). The church overcame the great tribulation known as the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire wasn't the great tribulation.

 

[surada]

Jehovah’s Witnesses & the Fear of Armageddon – 4Witness ...

Jehovah’s Witnesses & the Fear of Armageddon

Most people (if they have heard of them at all) assume that Jehovah’s Witnesses are “Christians,” and Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves are quick to agree that, “Yes! We are!” However, whereas the Christian looks forward to being with the Lord Jesus in Heaven after they die, the Jehovah’s Witness...

www.4witness.org

Feb 04, 2013 · 1) That the world is a “wicked” place, and can only be “cleansed of wickedness” by “destruction” at God’s hand at Armageddon. 2) That the only way the promised Paradise Earth can be brought about is by first “destroying” all “the wicked” people of the world. 3) That everyone that is not a Jehovah’s Witness…not a member ...

 

[DudleySmith]

The Roman Empire wasn't the great tribulation.

And. they had already taken over Palestine and Jerusalem decades before the birth of Jesus, something else some here are ignorant of. What is now considered 'Judaism' was a 2nd century invention by Pharisees after the Bar Kokhba Revolt failed. They just made it a much racist and insular cult than it already was, with little to do with Moses' teachings.