Union thugs go to new low: Bullying Churches

[Madeline]

Unions have stepped to a new low by protesting churches in California. Protesting churches because of their use of private contractors instead of union labor. Churches who only employ one or two pastors and one head administrator and operate off of donations.

In Bakersfield, California the local carpenters union is protesting the Grace Baptist Church for hiring a contractor who hired non-union labor. Grace Baptist Church had no control over who the contractor hired.

With video: Unions Protesting Churches in California - Big Government

Since when is it a "shame" to hire non union work? Since when is it required we hire union work?

Is this the United States of America or the Soviet UNION.

They try to bully banks and now churches?

This is ridiculous. This kind of bullying, should not be tolerated.

How is a peaceful protest "communist"? OF COURSE union workers think it is a shame to hire scab labor. The fact that a customer needs or wants cheap labor is no excuse. If the shop is closed or the Housing Code requires a licensed aka union worker, then avoiding the law is no good even if the doer thinks it has some claim to Special Holiness.

Should churches be permitted to burn their trash because they wish to avoid paying for garbage collection? Don't us non-adherents already pay enough of the costs of these religious outfits so that they can at least be expected to follow the few laws that still apply to them?

 

[teapartysamurai]

The op. word is CALIFORNIA.

True, I lived in California in the 70s, and it was bad then.

Remember this is the same state that had Churches attacked after the gay marriage initiative went down in flames.

Its not gotten any better in CA, its gotten worse. Churches were not the reason gay marriage went down in flames.

I know, but that is who the gays blamed.

I had a black teacher who treated me like I personally stood in front of the School in Little Rock and stopped black students from entering the schools (when I hadn't even been born yet, when that happened).

What was my crime? Being 11 years old and moving from Oklahoma to California. Apparently living 200 miles from Little Rock, AK, AFTER the time of those Civil Rights clashes was some kind of "crime" in those days.

This teacher told the entire class I was a racist, because I came from the "South." (I wasn't aware OK was the "South.)

That was california in 1973. That is how I was introduced to the thuggish behavior of liberalism. I doubt it has improved one bit.

 

[syrenn]

Unions have stepped to a new low by protesting churches in California. Protesting churches because of their use of private contractors instead of union labor. Churches who only employ one or two pastors and one head administrator and operate off of donations.

In Bakersfield, California the local carpenters union is protesting the Grace Baptist Church for hiring a contractor who hired non-union labor. Grace Baptist Church had no control over who the contractor hired.

With video: Unions Protesting Churches in California - Big Government

Since when is it a "shame" to hire non union work? Since when is it required we hire union work?

Is this the United States of America or the Soviet UNION.

They try to bully banks and now churches?

This is ridiculous. This kind of bullying, should not be tolerated.

How is a peaceful protest "communist"? OF COURSE union workers think it is a shame to hire scab labor. The fact that a customer needs or wants cheap labor is no excuse. If the shop is closed or the Housing Code requires a licensed aka union worker, then avoiding the law is no good even if the doer thinks it has some claim to Special Holiness.

Should churches be permitted to burn their trash because they wish to avoid paying for garbage collection? Don't us non-adherents already pay enough of the costs of these religious outfits so that they can at least be expected to follow the few laws that still apply to them?

Scab labor is only labor that the union doesn't like. Or more importantly scab labor is NOT paying into the union coffers in terms of dues.

Getting a license to be a contractor does not mean you have to join a union to acquire the license. States do not require you to be a union member to take tests, pass and receive said license. That is why it is called a licensed contractor. Not a UNION contractor.

Garbage collection is UNION controlled deal. That's why they don't want you to burn your garbage. If you burn your garbage the UNION cant collect it.

There is NO law that says you MUST hire union workers.

 

[teapartysamurai]

With video: Unions Protesting Churches in California - Big Government

Since when is it a "shame" to hire non union work? Since when is it required we hire union work?

Is this the United States of America or the Soviet UNION.

They try to bully banks and now churches?

This is ridiculous. This kind of bullying, should not be tolerated.

How is a peaceful protest "communist"? OF COURSE union workers think it is a shame to hire scab labor. The fact that a customer needs or wants cheap labor is no excuse. If the shop is closed or the Housing Code requires a licensed aka union worker, then avoiding the law is no good even if the doer thinks it has some claim to Special Holiness.

Should churches be permitted to burn their trash because they wish to avoid paying for garbage collection? Don't us non-adherents already pay enough of the costs of these religious outfits so that they can at least be expected to follow the few laws that still apply to them?

Scab labor is only labor that the union doesn't like. Or more importantly scab labor is NOT paying into the union coffers in terms of dues.

Getting a license to be a contractor does not mean you have to join a union to acquire the license. States do not require you to be a union member to take tests, pass and receive said license. That is why it is called a licensed contractor. Not a UNION contractor.

Garbage collection is UNION controlled deal. That's why they don't want you to burn your garbage. If you burn your garbage the UNION cant collect it.

There is NO law that says you MUST hire union workers.

Couldn't put it better myself!

 

[chanel]

The non-union contractors from my church often work for free. That must really piss off the union thugs, atheists, and socialists. Charity can only be achieved when forced by the govt. Errr!

 

[Madeline]

How is a peaceful protest "communist"? OF COURSE union workers think it is a shame to hire scab labor. The fact that a customer needs or wants cheap labor is no excuse. If the shop is closed or the Housing Code requires a licensed aka union worker, then avoiding the law is no good even if the doer thinks it has some claim to Special Holiness.

Should churches be permitted to burn their trash because they wish to avoid paying for garbage collection? Don't us non-adherents already pay enough of the costs of these religious outfits so that they can at least be expected to follow the few laws that still apply to them?

Scab labor is only labor that the union doesn't like. Or more importantly scab labor is NOT paying into the union coffers in terms of dues.

Getting a license to be a contractor does not mean you have to join a union to acquire the license. States do not require you to be a union member to take tests, pass and receive said license. That is why it is called a licensed contractor. Not a UNION contractor.

Garbage collection is UNION controlled deal. That's why they don't want you to burn your garbage. If you burn your garbage the UNION cant collect it.

There is NO law that says you MUST hire union workers.

Couldn't put it better myself!

This is only true in some states. As best I know, all "Right To Work" states are located in the Deep South, but I'll admit I don't know the law of California. If the Housing Code in issue required a licensed contractor be employed and one was not, I see no reason to excuse law-breaking by any property owner merely because he/she/it/they claims to be religious.

The fact that these property owners already evade all taxes just pours salt in the wound. WHEN are they gonna be done demanding MORE MORE MORE from their communities where they own land and buildings?

 

[Si modo]

NPAs are immune from most labor laws and regulations. If the thugs don't like it, they need to thug the politicians. But, the current pols are in their pockets. So, the thugs are emboldened.

 

[Madeline]

The non-union contractors from my church often work for free. That must really piss off the union thugs, atheists, and socialists. Charity can only be achieved when forced by the govt. Errr!

Have you some evidence that no atheist, socialist or union employee ever gives of his time? I know plenty who do. Time AND money, and often to religious outfits. The Mafia was said to be big donors to the RCC.

Does that excuse loan sharking or pimping in your mind, chanel?

 

[syrenn]

This is only true in some states. As best I know, all "Right To Work" states are located in the Deep South, but I'll admit I don't know the law of California. If the Housing Code in issue required a licensed contractor be employed and one was not, I see no reason to excuse law-breaking by any property owner merely because he/she/it/they claims to be religious.

The fact that these property owners already evade all taxes just pours salt in the wound. WHEN are they gonna be done demanding MORE MORE MORE from their communities where they own land and buildings?

A licensed contractor is just that, he holds a state issued license.To be legal all contractors MUST have a license.

That does NOT MEAN said licensed contractor is required to be a UNION CARD HOLDING MEMBER.

Where as union members are NOT required to have a state issued contractors license. They are however required to pay dues.

 

[syrenn]

This is only true in some states. As best I know, all "Right To Work" states are located in the Deep South, but I'll admit I don't know the law of California. If the Housing Code in issue required a licensed contractor be employed and one was not, I see no reason to excuse law-breaking by any property owner merely because he/she/it/they claims to be religious.

The fact that these property owners already evade all taxes just pours salt in the wound. WHEN are they gonna be done demanding MORE MORE MORE from their communities where they own land and buildings?

Your missing the point Madeline. This has nothing to do with churches getting out of paying their fair share of anything. They are obviously paying a licensed contractors to do a job. Get it, they are paying scabs, no union people NOT paying UNION DUES

The problem is the union is pissed off that the church is NOT using union workers. Read the sigh, LABOR DISPUTE true union words.. My guess the guys doing the work aren't the one disputing labor with the church.

The UNION is.

 

[Madeline]

In MOST states there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions.

I am unclear why you object so strenuously to a living wage for your fellow Americans, syrenn, but it seems rather un-christian to me. Mebbe that church's property could have been built with slave labor. Or using stolen materials.

Is slave labor or theft okay by you so long as it enriches some religious outlet? Seems to me paying a decent wage for a day's work should be a religious principle -- as should behaving in a law-abiding manner.

If there are to be two standards of conduct -- one for religious outlets and one for everyone else -- then shouldn't the separate standard for religious outfits be HIGHER? Are you seriously suggesting they get a pass on illegal activity?

 

[Ravi]

At least I see it now acceptable to call tea party protesters fascists.

 

[syrenn]

In MOST states there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions.

I am unclear why you object so strenuously to a living wage for your fellow Americans, syrenn, but it seems rather un-christian to me. Mebbe that church's property could have been built with slave labor. Or using stolen materials.

Is slave labor or theft okay by you so long as it enriches some religious outlet? Seems to me paying a decent wage for a day's work should be a religious principle -- as should behaving in a law-abiding manner.

If there are to be two standards of conduct -- one for religious outlets and one for everyone else -- then shouldn't the separate standard for religious outfits be HIGHER? Are you seriously suggesting they get a pass on illegal activity?

The only way to a license is to take the state test. That makes you a state licenced contractor.

Read your argument. "there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions."


Oh Really?

So are you saying that if you want to be a contractor you are REQUIRED to be a union member? THAT smacks of blackmail to me!

Let me see, yes you can be a licensed contractor, BUT ONLY if you join the union? What if you don't want to join the union. Is joining the union a requirement to hold a state contractors license?

Get off your religious high horse on this one Maddie, its a looser. There is NO double standard. So long as you hire a licensed contractor to do the work, the work is legal.

 

[Madeline]

Ravi, no one but you has used the word "facist" as far as I can tell. Can you mebbe try addressing the other posters and not the voices in your head?

 

[Si modo]

Ravi, no one but used used the word "facist" as far as I can tell. Can you mebbe try addressing the other posters and not the voices in your head?

You really should take your own advice.

The non-union contractors from my church often work for free. That must really piss off the union thugs, atheists, and socialists. Charity can only be achieved when forced by the govt. Errr!

Have you some evidence that no atheist, socialist or union employee ever gives of his time? I know plenty who do. Time AND money, and often to religious outfits. The Mafia was said to be big donors to the RCC.

Does that excuse loan sharking or pimping in your mind, chanel?

 

[Madeline]

In MOST states there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions.

I am unclear why you object so strenuously to a living wage for your fellow Americans, syrenn, but it seems rather un-christian to me. Mebbe that church's property could have been built with slave labor. Or using stolen materials.

Is slave labor or theft okay by you so long as it enriches some religious outlet? Seems to me paying a decent wage for a day's work should be a religious principle -- as should behaving in a law-abiding manner.

If there are to be two standards of conduct -- one for religious outlets and one for everyone else -- then shouldn't the separate standard for religious outfits be HIGHER? Are you seriously suggesting they get a pass on illegal activity?

The only way to a license is to take the state test. That makes you a state licenced contractor.

Read your argument. "there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions."


Oh Really?

So are you saying that if you want to be a contractor you are REQUIRED to be a union member? THAT smacks of blackmail to me!

Let me see, yes you can be a licensed contractor, BUT ONLY if you join the union? What if you don't want to join the union. Is joining the union a requirement to hold a state contractors license?

Get off your religious high horse on this one Maddie, its a looser. There is NO double standard. So long as you hire a licensed contractor to do the work, the work is legal.

syrenn, a general contractor is not a tradesman. He employs trades, but he need not have their skills. Trades are people like electricians, plumbers, etc. And yes, in many states the ONLY way to acquire an electricians' license is to join the union and apprentice to a Master Electrician.

Some things cannot be taught in a classroom, and some risks of error are too high for society to tolerate.

Yes, if the church hired licensed workers in conformity with the law, then the hiring was legal. If they did not, it wasn't. It certainly sounds as if the church did not or the unions would not be protesting scab labor at their sites. Are you gonna be all warm and fuzzy if the church's electrical system shorts out, causes a fire and kills the faithful?

I dunno how you come by this hatred for unions, syrenn, but where the trades are concerned it is misplaced. Without them, none of us so would much as dare ride on an elevator.

 

[syrenn]

In MOST states there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions.

I am unclear why you object so strenuously to a living wage for your fellow Americans, syrenn, but it seems rather un-christian to me. Mebbe that church's property could have been built with slave labor. Or using stolen materials.

Is slave labor or theft okay by you so long as it enriches some religious outlet? Seems to me paying a decent wage for a day's work should be a religious principle -- as should behaving in a law-abiding manner.

If there are to be two standards of conduct -- one for religious outlets and one for everyone else -- then shouldn't the separate standard for religious outfits be HIGHER? Are you seriously suggesting they get a pass on illegal activity?

Now for the rest. Remember maddie, you are mixing up two issues here.

Why do you think I am against a living wage? I am against UNIONS.

What does slave labor have anything to do with the church using NON UNION labor? Slave labor from old? My guess the contractors would not be working there if they were not PAID. That is not slave labor. Nor does the church OWN any of the people working, that would be slave labor.

Don't make me laugh. Stolen materials. Are you forgetting who your are defending? The unions. They would be the ones I would be looking at for 'stolen material"

 

[chanel]

I have no idea about loan sharking or the mafia infiltration in my local church. My husband has a small non-union plumbing business and we have friends who have other small contracting firms as well They have put in new kitchens, bathrooms, and worked in the Catholic schools for free. Sorry if that concept does not fit into your conspiracy theories. Destroying small business is what the socialists want and it must kill them when they discover they do good things. Must suck to be so hostile all the time.

 

[Madeline]

In MOST states there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions.

I am unclear why you object so strenuously to a living wage for your fellow Americans, syrenn, but it seems rather un-christian to me. Mebbe that church's property could have been built with slave labor. Or using stolen materials.

Is slave labor or theft okay by you so long as it enriches some religious outlet? Seems to me paying a decent wage for a day's work should be a religious principle -- as should behaving in a law-abiding manner.

If there are to be two standards of conduct -- one for religious outlets and one for everyone else -- then shouldn't the separate standard for religious outfits be HIGHER? Are you seriously suggesting they get a pass on illegal activity?

Now for the rest. Remember maddie, you are mixing up two issues here.

Why do you think I am against a living wage? I am against UNIONS.

What does slave labor have anything to do with the church using NON UNION labor? Slave labor from old? My guess the contractors would not be working there if they were not PAID. That is not slave labor. Nor does the church OWN any of the people working, that would be slave labor.

Don't make me laugh. Stolen materials. Are you forgetting who your are defending? The unions. They would be the ones I would be looking at for 'stolen material."

syrenn, SFC Ollie and I had discussed starting a thread on the value (or not) of American unions to American workers. Why don't we do that rather than hijacking this one?

Meet ya in the funny papers, miss.

 

[syrenn]

I have no idea about loan sharking or the mafia infiltration in my local church. My husband has a small non-union plumbing business and we have friends who have other small contracting firms as well They have put in new kitchens, bathrooms, and worked in the Catholic schools for free. Sorry if that concept does not fit into your conspiracy theories. Destroying small business is what the socialists want and it must kill them when they discover they do good things. Must suck to be so hostile all the time.

So tell me chanel.

Does your husband and friends hold "licenses"
Did your husband need to be part of a union and hold a union card to take the state licensing test?
Do the unions hound your husband?
Does the union try and get your husband to join up and pay dues?
Does working for the church for free mean sub standard work?
Does being non union make your husband a thief?
Do the unions PREVENT your husband from getting good jobs that he may want?