UPS To Order 10,000 Electric Vans, with Option To Order Additional 10,000

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I will live wherever I want and you asshole have no right to tell me to move!

You did not address the environmental cost of making thos batteries, disposing of them and the cost to the consumer to replace them and I wonder why?

Simple, if you have to discuss that then it destroys your emissions argument.

Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars

Also the environmental cost to produce the electricity no matter Solar, Wind or Nucler or even COAL is never discussed while those like you lecture how electric cars are the future and I wonder why?

Simple, you love hiding facts...

So you attribute Nickel as bad for the Electric Cars. Well, then we also need to add a ton of other things it's used for as well.

The largest use of Nickel is Ferronickle which is used for all Stainless steel. And while you are at it, if you want to get rid of nickle, you will have to get rid of MOST metal composites. Adding Nickle enables the base metal to hand a broader band of temperatures. That means, it's also used in Aluminum that is used in Aircraft, and you guessed it, the aluminum parts for Cars and Trucks for engines. Nickel is used in almost every metal application that is in your life. The use in Batteries is such a small percentage in comparison it doesn't even move the needle.

In the lithium Phosphate Battery, there is very little Lithium used. It's mostly a gel form of Alcohol and carbon. The reason that the US doesn't have a decent recycling system like Europe does is that the US is slow, very slow. Europe recycles their Lipo batteries. So when you say that all the things in an Electric Car's battery is bad then you have to include almost everything around you the same way. BTW, Nickel is used with Aluminum for the cathodes. And Lithium is mixed in a very small amount into the Alcholol gel and carbon mix. solution.

The largest chemicals or minerals in a Lipo battery is the Alcohol gel and the Carbon. Class dismissed.

End of discussion?

So you admit that what you are claiming to be better for the environment has not been better for the environment and now will go on the attack and say the discussion is over by dismissing class...

Got it and now let me lecture you and the reality is you are lying and hiding the environmental damage to lie to the public like you have many times before.

Fact is electric cars cause environmental damage and the cost to fix those cars when a battery dies is not cheap on the consumer.

So right now you have fossiel fuel damage along with damage from making those battery operated cars going on at the same time while also not even taking into consideration the damage Solar, Wind, Nuclear and Coal power plants are causing to the planet!

Boy, you want to dismiss your class while demanding no one question your impact of damage to our environment and how sad!

My, My, what an unruly misinformed class.

Fact is, construction of ALL cars contribute to the environment in a negative way. It just so happens that the batteries in the Electric are larger and contribute more. That's a given. The fact is, if you are going to operate an electric car for only a month and then do the test then it's 5 times more pollutant than the gas powered car when you factor in the manufacture of the Batteries.

Ah, then you run your gas and electric for 5 years. Guess what, the Electric is now 5 times less impact on the environment every year past that first month. The Gas rig loses that one big time when you factor in the manufacture and day to day operation for a 5 year period.

As for damage from Coal. Considering there are very few coal fired electric generation plants left in the US then I suggest you get on someone's ass to get those few shut down and replaced with Natural Gas that is much more efficient, costs less and much, much cleaner.

Wind and Solar are doing just fine. Sure, a few birds bite the big one but not very many. There are ways to use sonics to discourage our foul friends from coming near a big Wind Mill. And Solar for large scale electric generation is usually done in areas where there is absolutely nothing there. For instance, Southern Colorado pipes in power from New Mexico and over 20% of it is wind and solar. The rest is natural gas. They used to buy their power from a Colorado Company that was using about 30% Coal and the rest was Natural Gas. They had a hell of a time breaking that contract but finally did and buy the cheaper NM power.

Let's turn the page, class. Around here, ALL of our electric Power comes from Hydroelectric. The last Coal Fired Plant is to be closed down this year. That also means the coal mines close down as well. As the states south and west of us become more energy independent that leaves more Hydroelectric Power from our Dams for us to use. We used to supply as far as Los Angeles but they are slowly firing up other methods including their own Hydro Plants along with, you guessed it, Wind and Solar in areas that is totally worthless, empty and void.

It's Friday, Class (actually, it's Saturday now) so go home for the weekend, study your books real well because we are going to have a test come monday. Be careful, we still have that dunce hat that you can wear in the corner on the high stool. Class dismissed.

So now you want to dismiss class by saying all cars cause damage, so what and that is true and you have yet to discuss the true cost on the environment when discussing that.

Also now you opened another discussion when it come to the damage cause by Hydro-electric Plants and the impact it had on our environment, so can you explain to your so called class why you believe that damage is worthy and should not be looked at?

Wait until Monday. Class has been dismissed and you need to hit that textbook. I suggest you review chapter 6.

So you can not answer the question because you know your way is also doing environmental damage but want those like me to ignore it so you can profit off the stocks of certain companies...

Got it...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

So you attribute Nickel as bad for the Electric Cars. Well, then we also need to add a ton of other things it's used for as well.

The largest use of Nickel is Ferronickle which is used for all Stainless steel. And while you are at it, if you want to get rid of nickle, you will have to get rid of MOST metal composites. Adding Nickle enables the base metal to hand a broader band of temperatures. That means, it's also used in Aluminum that is used in Aircraft, and you guessed it, the aluminum parts for Cars and Trucks for engines. Nickel is used in almost every metal application that is in your life. The use in Batteries is such a small percentage in comparison it doesn't even move the needle.

In the lithium Phosphate Battery, there is very little Lithium used. It's mostly a gel form of Alcohol and carbon. The reason that the US doesn't have a decent recycling system like Europe does is that the US is slow, very slow. Europe recycles their Lipo batteries. So when you say that all the things in an Electric Car's battery is bad then you have to include almost everything around you the same way. BTW, Nickel is used with Aluminum for the cathodes. And Lithium is mixed in a very small amount into the Alcholol gel and carbon mix. solution.

The largest chemicals or minerals in a Lipo battery is the Alcohol gel and the Carbon. Class dismissed.

End of discussion?

So you admit that what you are claiming to be better for the environment has not been better for the environment and now will go on the attack and say the discussion is over by dismissing class...

Got it and now let me lecture you and the reality is you are lying and hiding the environmental damage to lie to the public like you have many times before.

Fact is electric cars cause environmental damage and the cost to fix those cars when a battery dies is not cheap on the consumer.

So right now you have fossiel fuel damage along with damage from making those battery operated cars going on at the same time while also not even taking into consideration the damage Solar, Wind, Nuclear and Coal power plants are causing to the planet!

Boy, you want to dismiss your class while demanding no one question your impact of damage to our environment and how sad!

My, My, what an unruly misinformed class.

Fact is, construction of ALL cars contribute to the environment in a negative way. It just so happens that the batteries in the Electric are larger and contribute more. That's a given. The fact is, if you are going to operate an electric car for only a month and then do the test then it's 5 times more pollutant than the gas powered car when you factor in the manufacture of the Batteries.

Ah, then you run your gas and electric for 5 years. Guess what, the Electric is now 5 times less impact on the environment every year past that first month. The Gas rig loses that one big time when you factor in the manufacture and day to day operation for a 5 year period.

As for damage from Coal. Considering there are very few coal fired electric generation plants left in the US then I suggest you get on someone's ass to get those few shut down and replaced with Natural Gas that is much more efficient, costs less and much, much cleaner.

Wind and Solar are doing just fine. Sure, a few birds bite the big one but not very many. There are ways to use sonics to discourage our foul friends from coming near a big Wind Mill. And Solar for large scale electric generation is usually done in areas where there is absolutely nothing there. For instance, Southern Colorado pipes in power from New Mexico and over 20% of it is wind and solar. The rest is natural gas. They used to buy their power from a Colorado Company that was using about 30% Coal and the rest was Natural Gas. They had a hell of a time breaking that contract but finally did and buy the cheaper NM power.

Let's turn the page, class. Around here, ALL of our electric Power comes from Hydroelectric. The last Coal Fired Plant is to be closed down this year. That also means the coal mines close down as well. As the states south and west of us become more energy independent that leaves more Hydroelectric Power from our Dams for us to use. We used to supply as far as Los Angeles but they are slowly firing up other methods including their own Hydro Plants along with, you guessed it, Wind and Solar in areas that is totally worthless, empty and void.

It's Friday, Class (actually, it's Saturday now) so go home for the weekend, study your books real well because we are going to have a test come monday. Be careful, we still have that dunce hat that you can wear in the corner on the high stool. Class dismissed.

So now you want to dismiss class by saying all cars cause damage, so what and that is true and you have yet to discuss the true cost on the environment when discussing that.

Also now you opened another discussion when it come to the damage cause by Hydro-electric Plants and the impact it had on our environment, so can you explain to your so called class why you believe that damage is worthy and should not be looked at?

Wait until Monday. Class has been dismissed and you need to hit that textbook. I suggest you review chapter 6.

So you can not answer the question because you know your way is also doing environmental damage but want those like me to ignore it so you can profit off the stocks of certain companies...

Got it...

I worked on Morrow Point before I was "Drafted" and then quickly left for the Air Force as an alternative. I suggest you go to Chapter 5 and read up on the drawbacks and benefits of Hydro Electric Power. Not any new information. It was written by the Army Corp of Engineers Circa 1935. And nothing has changed. Any damage done by Hydroelectric Power was done generations ago. And I saw that damage as well. But we still enjoy the benefits from those projects today and will for the next hundred years or so if not longer. Reread Chapter 5.

Class has been dismissed. Get to reading Dunce.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

End of discussion?

So you admit that what you are claiming to be better for the environment has not been better for the environment and now will go on the attack and say the discussion is over by dismissing class...

Got it and now let me lecture you and the reality is you are lying and hiding the environmental damage to lie to the public like you have many times before.

Fact is electric cars cause environmental damage and the cost to fix those cars when a battery dies is not cheap on the consumer.

So right now you have fossiel fuel damage along with damage from making those battery operated cars going on at the same time while also not even taking into consideration the damage Solar, Wind, Nuclear and Coal power plants are causing to the planet!

Boy, you want to dismiss your class while demanding no one question your impact of damage to our environment and how sad!

My, My, what an unruly misinformed class.

Fact is, construction of ALL cars contribute to the environment in a negative way. It just so happens that the batteries in the Electric are larger and contribute more. That's a given. The fact is, if you are going to operate an electric car for only a month and then do the test then it's 5 times more pollutant than the gas powered car when you factor in the manufacture of the Batteries.

Ah, then you run your gas and electric for 5 years. Guess what, the Electric is now 5 times less impact on the environment every year past that first month. The Gas rig loses that one big time when you factor in the manufacture and day to day operation for a 5 year period.

As for damage from Coal. Considering there are very few coal fired electric generation plants left in the US then I suggest you get on someone's ass to get those few shut down and replaced with Natural Gas that is much more efficient, costs less and much, much cleaner.

Wind and Solar are doing just fine. Sure, a few birds bite the big one but not very many. There are ways to use sonics to discourage our foul friends from coming near a big Wind Mill. And Solar for large scale electric generation is usually done in areas where there is absolutely nothing there. For instance, Southern Colorado pipes in power from New Mexico and over 20% of it is wind and solar. The rest is natural gas. They used to buy their power from a Colorado Company that was using about 30% Coal and the rest was Natural Gas. They had a hell of a time breaking that contract but finally did and buy the cheaper NM power.

Let's turn the page, class. Around here, ALL of our electric Power comes from Hydroelectric. The last Coal Fired Plant is to be closed down this year. That also means the coal mines close down as well. As the states south and west of us become more energy independent that leaves more Hydroelectric Power from our Dams for us to use. We used to supply as far as Los Angeles but they are slowly firing up other methods including their own Hydro Plants along with, you guessed it, Wind and Solar in areas that is totally worthless, empty and void.

It's Friday, Class (actually, it's Saturday now) so go home for the weekend, study your books real well because we are going to have a test come monday. Be careful, we still have that dunce hat that you can wear in the corner on the high stool. Class dismissed.

So now you want to dismiss class by saying all cars cause damage, so what and that is true and you have yet to discuss the true cost on the environment when discussing that.

Also now you opened another discussion when it come to the damage cause by Hydro-electric Plants and the impact it had on our environment, so can you explain to your so called class why you believe that damage is worthy and should not be looked at?

Wait until Monday. Class has been dismissed and you need to hit that textbook. I suggest you review chapter 6.

So you can not answer the question because you know your way is also doing environmental damage but want those like me to ignore it so you can profit off the stocks of certain companies...

Got it...

I worked on Morrow Point before I was "Drafted" and then quickly left for the Air Force as an alternative. I suggest you go to Chapter 5 and read up on the drawbacks and benefits of Hydro Electric Power. Not any new information. It was written by the Army Corp of Engineers Circa 1935. And nothing has changed. Any damage done by Hydroelectric Power was done generations ago. And I saw that damage as well. But we still enjoy the benefits from those projects today and will for the next hundred years or so if not longer. Reread Chapter 5.

Class has been dismissed. Get to reading Dunce.

Army Corp of Engineers are they that group that will take someone land and fine you to death if you dig near a ditch they call a waterway?

Yeah, so you are invoking them in this argument to support your opinion when they are clearly a rogue agency...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

My, My, what an unruly misinformed class.

Fact is, construction of ALL cars contribute to the environment in a negative way. It just so happens that the batteries in the Electric are larger and contribute more. That's a given. The fact is, if you are going to operate an electric car for only a month and then do the test then it's 5 times more pollutant than the gas powered car when you factor in the manufacture of the Batteries.

Ah, then you run your gas and electric for 5 years. Guess what, the Electric is now 5 times less impact on the environment every year past that first month. The Gas rig loses that one big time when you factor in the manufacture and day to day operation for a 5 year period.

As for damage from Coal. Considering there are very few coal fired electric generation plants left in the US then I suggest you get on someone's ass to get those few shut down and replaced with Natural Gas that is much more efficient, costs less and much, much cleaner.

Wind and Solar are doing just fine. Sure, a few birds bite the big one but not very many. There are ways to use sonics to discourage our foul friends from coming near a big Wind Mill. And Solar for large scale electric generation is usually done in areas where there is absolutely nothing there. For instance, Southern Colorado pipes in power from New Mexico and over 20% of it is wind and solar. The rest is natural gas. They used to buy their power from a Colorado Company that was using about 30% Coal and the rest was Natural Gas. They had a hell of a time breaking that contract but finally did and buy the cheaper NM power.

Let's turn the page, class. Around here, ALL of our electric Power comes from Hydroelectric. The last Coal Fired Plant is to be closed down this year. That also means the coal mines close down as well. As the states south and west of us become more energy independent that leaves more Hydroelectric Power from our Dams for us to use. We used to supply as far as Los Angeles but they are slowly firing up other methods including their own Hydro Plants along with, you guessed it, Wind and Solar in areas that is totally worthless, empty and void.

It's Friday, Class (actually, it's Saturday now) so go home for the weekend, study your books real well because we are going to have a test come monday. Be careful, we still have that dunce hat that you can wear in the corner on the high stool. Class dismissed.

So now you want to dismiss class by saying all cars cause damage, so what and that is true and you have yet to discuss the true cost on the environment when discussing that.

Also now you opened another discussion when it come to the damage cause by Hydro-electric Plants and the impact it had on our environment, so can you explain to your so called class why you believe that damage is worthy and should not be looked at?

Wait until Monday. Class has been dismissed and you need to hit that textbook. I suggest you review chapter 6.

So you can not answer the question because you know your way is also doing environmental damage but want those like me to ignore it so you can profit off the stocks of certain companies...

Got it...

I worked on Morrow Point before I was "Drafted" and then quickly left for the Air Force as an alternative. I suggest you go to Chapter 5 and read up on the drawbacks and benefits of Hydro Electric Power. Not any new information. It was written by the Army Corp of Engineers Circa 1935. And nothing has changed. Any damage done by Hydroelectric Power was done generations ago. And I saw that damage as well. But we still enjoy the benefits from those projects today and will for the next hundred years or so if not longer. Reread Chapter 5.

Class has been dismissed. Get to reading Dunce.

Army Corp of Engineers are they that group that will take someone land and fine you to death if you dig near a ditch they call a waterway?

Yeah, so you are invoking them in this argument to support your opinion when they are clearly a rogue agency...

They are the ones that did the original Waterworks programs that put in the first major Hydroelectric Plants in the Tennessee Valley during the Depression. They are the ones that built bridges where others said it couldn't be done. Just put on your Dunce hat and go sit in the corner facing the corner and let the class get back to learning things.

 

[justoffal]

Hope they are as tough as the trucks they now use.

Those drivers beat the piss out of them.

Good for them anyway. I have no problem with anyone driving an electric vehicle.
More gas for my V-8 Luxury SUV, boat and snowmobiles.

I drive modern vehicles back and forth to work.

But I still own a 72 eldorado that I keep in mint condition with a 572 V8 and a giant 4-barrel carburetor that literally gulps gas by the gallon....lol.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Hope they are as tough as the trucks they now use.

Those drivers beat the piss out of them.

Good for them anyway. I have no problem with anyone driving an electric vehicle.
More gas for my V-8 Luxury SUV, boat and snowmobiles.

I drive modern vehicles back and forth to work.

But I still own a 72 eldorado that I keep in mint condition with a 572 V8 and a giant 4-barrel carburetor that literally gulps gas by the gallon....lol.

There is something about old Detroit Iron. Of course, it wasn't old to me when it first came out and I really didn't appreciate them nearly like I do today. We live in the age of clones. There is no mistaking a 72 Eldorado for anything else. And it was made out of real Metal and Wood, not plastic.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

UPS needs to stop that goofy idea....their trucks are just fine as is.....

electric cars suck and will always suck......

 

[Daryl Hunt]

UPS needs to stop that goofy idea....their trucks are just fine as is.....

electric cars suck and will always suck......

Nice of you to contribute. To you, the greatest invention was the Noose and that new fangled electric chair would never catch on.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

UPS needs to stop that goofy idea....their trucks are just fine as is.....

electric cars suck and will always suck......

Nice of you to contribute. To you, the greatest invention was the Noose and that new fangled electric chair would never catch on.

Save yo hissy fit sissy….

Most people think electric cars suck...so fuk what you whining about

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Natural gas is fossil fuel and many places don’t have the hydroelectric option.

And out of the other "Fossil Fuels" NG puts out the least amount of pollutants. It's plentiful, cheap and it's the number one used. The option of using Coal or Oil Fired (including diesel) should never be considered for a primary power source. You keep looking for reasons to prevent electric vehicles. Well, you ain't doing a very good job of that. Starting in 2025, things are breaking wide open for electric vehicles.

I helped to get a law passed in Colorado that allowed the operation of the Low Speed Electric Bicycle. The Cops all came up with the ruling that if it had a motor it was a motor vehicle and should be treated exactly like a car. The problem is, a low speed electric bicycle cannot meet the legal specification of the NHTA auto regs. And the Federal Laws put the Low Speed Electric Bicycle under the Bicycle Laws in the Public Safety instead of the NHTA for motorized vehicles. I was the last person in this state to get ticketed on a Low Speed Electric Bicycle for operating it outside of the NHTA motor vehicle rules and regs. The Judge got quite a laugh at the Cops expense on that one. But I worked with a Republican (yes, I said republican) state senator and we got the laws in colorado to mirror the federal laws.

The problem is, there are hurdles that are there only to block the electrics from becoming useful. It's becoming less and less each day but it's still there. And the biggest thing is the education of the masses. And consider this section as part of that education.

Once your alternatives become more practical and cost effective I’m sure everyone will acquiesce. It’s called progress. Until then, don’t force your sheep propaganda into my life. That’s called fascism.

Then I suggest you stop forcing yours on me. As it stands right now, my Truck would not pass the laws that are on the books for new vehicle construction. And why? Does it pollute more, No. Does it get worse fuel mileage from a comparable new vehicle, no. Is it less safe in an accident, no. The last thing you want to do with your tiny fiesta is to ram it into my Truck. I get bent sheet metal and you get buried in your shoeboxmobile. Mine is repairable and yours gets last rights along with your last rights. And I don't have to be a contortionist to get in and out of it. Get to be my age and that becomes a huge plus.

You Rightwingers already tried to block my electrics but we fought back in the courts. I am the last person in the State of Colorado to receive a ticket for operating a Low Speed Electric Bicycle. The Judge almost fell out of his chair laughing at that one. Then I worked with a "Republican" State Senator to get the Colorado Law changed to read what the Federal Law reads. BTW, for the court, I didn't use a Lawyer. I represented myself and just presented the Section 15 and 16 of the Federal Public Safety Laws. The Prosecutor presented the NHTA and the Colorado Motor Vehicle Laws which the Cops were using to bully the public with. He ruled that, well, get out of my court comes to mind. Dismissed. Then we got the laws changed at the state level through legislation. The Argument that "If it has a motor, it is a motor vehicle" was thrown out and the Cops had to be reeducated.

Then the States that won't allow companies like Tesla to be part of a multi dealership. They can exist as long as they are free standing dealership. The Oil Companies and Auto Manufacturers spend billions on that one buying politicians.

Now we have the states trying to charge thousands of dollars a year to register and operate an electric car on the hiways because the cars don't use the gas that is taxed. 1500 bucks a year just to register a car annually? Give me a break. There are other ways to get those taxes. That's another case of YOU trying to prevent ME from operating the vehicle of my choice even though that vehicle meets (and in most cases) exceeds all requirements for operation. Even China isn't doing that. They are understanding that clean air is more important than a bunch of Obstructionist against new technology. And China really needs all the help it can get to clean up their air.

I’m no right winger and you need to allow the market to determine the result, not a fascist decree or vogue political scam. You’re an extremist.

Oh, I see. I see what's coming out in the next 5 years and see it as something good. It's coming without or without my support or permission. Meanwhile, you want to block it. That ship has already sailed.

I don’t want to block anything progressive or beneficial. Forcing counter productivity in the name of a fascist gov policy is another thing.
We has eight years of economic demise as a result of that same attempted policy by the previous administration. His worshippers acquiesced without thinking and realizing. Not again.