UPS To Order 10,000 Electric Vans, with Option To Order Additional 10,000

[Daryl Hunt]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

We'll see. The whole point, is to see how well it works.

I'm always amused by the marketing speak..... "UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles" Well duh... they had that option to being with. They have the option to buy 100,000 vehicles, or zero vehicles.

Would they really have said "You can only buy 10K of these, and no more ever again!"? Really? This is why I can never be in marketing. They lie and fabricate so much crap.

Anyway.... The truck looks nice. But you never know with looks. I could not find any specs on it. They said he had 50% of the operational costs, but that doesn't mean much if it's a million dollars per unit.

Remember, this isn't the first time UPS tried this.... whatever happen to their electric trucks from 2018?
UPS Places Order for 950 Workhorse Electric Delivery Trucks

Shipping giant UPS said it will buy 950 electric delivery trucks from Workhorse Group in what looks to be a key order for the electric vehicle startup.​

What happened to those? Why didn't they keep buying those Trucks?

It takes time to put in the infrastructure. For instance, in the last year, it's now capable of driving an electric car from Salt Lake City to Denver almost non stop since they finished the charging stations along the Interstate. So you can only make 300 miles per charge and have to spend your lunch getting enough charge to make it to the evening where you will spend the night. You'll go from Salt Lake City to Green River to spend the night. The next morning you have another 300 full miles on the charge. So you stop in Glenwood Springs, Co. for lunch, top off and have lunch. You then head off to Denver. You end up making about 1 extra fueling stop as compared to a small efficient gas SUV. Those two one hour fuel top offs enables you to make the over 700 mile trip. But first, the fueling stations needed to be there. And as more people utilize electric cars, the more need for the fueling stations.

Irrelevant. When I was a driver, I would routinely put nearly 800 miles on my car, in one single day.

Filling up the car more than twice a day for gas, was routine.

Now if you have an electric truck, and you can only drive so far, and then you are just..... S.O.L. for the day....

That's not how shipping works. You can't just contact your customers, and say "yeah, not enough charge in the truck to deliver to you. Maybe tomorrow". One of the things I delivered was actual body parts on dry ice. Freaky stuff. I can't call the hospital and tell them, yeah, that organ on ice... it's going to have to way, because it takes 8 hours to charge up my truck.

Not happening.

So it all depends on how UPS intends to use these Trucks I suppose.

Once again, you are narrowing your scope so close, nothing can fill the need. UPS is looking at replacing all their local trucks with electrics. It make sense. Those local trucks get between 6 to 8 mpg. And the Drive train has a rigid maintenance schedule. The Electric will get a much better equiv MPG rating and the drive train will be cheaper to maintain. It actually makes sense.

Your Long Haul will take a bit longer. The deciding factor there is the weight of the batteries required versus the amount of cargo carried. Right now, the weight and the size of the batter takes up too much space and weight and reduces the amount of cargo past the point of being feasable on heavy trucks. The solution? Solid State Batteries which are 5 times more efficient than todays Lipo4s and are 5 times lighter and smaller. The Solid State Battery does work. They just haven't scaled it up past the labratory stage just yet. Tesla just purchased one of the leading developers of this technology. 2025 is going to be a wild year.

 

[candycorn]

Why all the opposition to electric vehicles?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Why all the opposition to electric vehicles?

The Petro Companies spend billions a year to keep the opposition up. Imagine not having to rely on gasoline or diesel as much. At first, the cost of fuel will go way down because there will be a huge glut. But, in the end, the cost will go way up die to the lack of production. And all those closed production facilities and worthless pipelines. We are on the cusp of a drastic change that will cost the Petro Suppliers Trillions and it's cheaper for them to spend billions to prevent a fast takeover of a better system than reinvest in something else. It's just business.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Why all the opposition to electric vehicles?

Because the technology has not yet risen to a practical use level.

 

[Andylusion]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

We'll see. The whole point, is to see how well it works.

I'm always amused by the marketing speak..... "UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles" Well duh... they had that option to being with. They have the option to buy 100,000 vehicles, or zero vehicles.

Would they really have said "You can only buy 10K of these, and no more ever again!"? Really? This is why I can never be in marketing. They lie and fabricate so much crap.

Anyway.... The truck looks nice. But you never know with looks. I could not find any specs on it. They said he had 50% of the operational costs, but that doesn't mean much if it's a million dollars per unit.

Remember, this isn't the first time UPS tried this.... whatever happen to their electric trucks from 2018?
UPS Places Order for 950 Workhorse Electric Delivery Trucks

Shipping giant UPS said it will buy 950 electric delivery trucks from Workhorse Group in what looks to be a key order for the electric vehicle startup.​

What happened to those? Why didn't they keep buying those Trucks?

It takes time to put in the infrastructure. For instance, in the last year, it's now capable of driving an electric car from Salt Lake City to Denver almost non stop since they finished the charging stations along the Interstate. So you can only make 300 miles per charge and have to spend your lunch getting enough charge to make it to the evening where you will spend the night. You'll go from Salt Lake City to Green River to spend the night. The next morning you have another 300 full miles on the charge. So you stop in Glenwood Springs, Co. for lunch, top off and have lunch. You then head off to Denver. You end up making about 1 extra fueling stop as compared to a small efficient gas SUV. Those two one hour fuel top offs enables you to make the over 700 mile trip. But first, the fueling stations needed to be there. And as more people utilize electric cars, the more need for the fueling stations.

Irrelevant. When I was a driver, I would routinely put nearly 800 miles on my car, in one single day.

Filling up the car more than twice a day for gas, was routine.

Now if you have an electric truck, and you can only drive so far, and then you are just..... S.O.L. for the day....

That's not how shipping works. You can't just contact your customers, and say "yeah, not enough charge in the truck to deliver to you. Maybe tomorrow". One of the things I delivered was actual body parts on dry ice. Freaky stuff. I can't call the hospital and tell them, yeah, that organ on ice... it's going to have to way, because it takes 8 hours to charge up my truck.

Not happening.

So it all depends on how UPS intends to use these Trucks I suppose.

Once again, you are narrowing your scope so close, nothing can fill the need. UPS is looking at replacing all their local trucks with electrics. It make sense. Those local trucks get between 6 to 8 mpg. And the Drive train has a rigid maintenance schedule. The Electric will get a much better equiv MPG rating and the drive train will be cheaper to maintain. It actually makes sense.

Your Long Haul will take a bit longer. The deciding factor there is the weight of the batteries required versus the amount of cargo carried. Right now, the weight and the size of the batter takes up too much space and weight and reduces the amount of cargo past the point of being feasable on heavy trucks. The solution? Solid State Batteries which are 5 times more efficient than todays Lipo4s and are 5 times lighter and smaller. The Solid State Battery does work. They just haven't scaled it up past the labratory stage just yet. Tesla just purchased one of the leading developers of this technology. 2025 is going to be a wild year.

And it is entirely possible you are correct. But often what looks good on endless piles of paper, doesn't materialize in real life.

I'm all for it, if it works. We'll see.

 

[White 6]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Hey Daryl, What are they going to do with their F-16s, F-35s, Leopard Tanks and those M113 a1-A3s. Their navy isn't too eco friendly either. ..........

Park them in your driveway and syphon all the gas out of your gas guzzler to feed them.

er, eh uh, Maybe the Norwegian military can get by without changing their tanks, planes and ships to battery power.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Hey Daryl, What are they going to do with their F-16s, F-35s, Leopard Tanks and those M113 a1-A3s. Their navy isn't too eco friendly either. ..........

Park them in your driveway and syphon all the gas out of your gas guzzler to feed them.

er, eh uh, Maybe the Norwegian military can get by without changing their tanks, planes and ships to battery power.

Hey, stop that. You shouldn't make sense in a senseless conversation.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Norway ain’t Anacostia or Malibu or Omaha or anywhere in the US.
Norway???

 

[Dana7360]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

If they use those vehicles in my state the answer to that is ZERO.

My state has pretty much shut down our last coal fire plant.

We get our energy from water, solar, wind and natural gas.

It doesn't matter if it's in my state or not.

Any electric vehicle is a step in the right direction.

Get a new reply, that one is so very old and lame.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Norway ain’t Anacostia or Malibu or Omaha or anywhere in the US.
Norway???

Funny thing. When my truck breaks (and it does sometimes) I fire up the trusty electric trike and go get parts. It's never the other way around. The Electric Trike is nicknamed "The Parts Getter". I also use it to go get parts for others. When I need to make a fast run to the Market, I fire it up with the press of one button. Parking is always close. The Bike Rack is right next to the front door. When I need to run to the VA to fill a prescription (like in the morning) just jump on it and go and park right next the main entrance instead of the north 40. Am I cold? No colder than if I take my auto since by the time I get my auto warm enough, I am already there and then I have to walk in the cold from the north 40 parking area to the front entrance. it's faster and I get there quicker with the electric trike. And what about cost of operation? My truck gets between 11 and 16mpg but for a short run like that in the cold I will burn a couple or three gallons at 2.50 a gallon. That's no less than 5 bucks for the same trip. What does my trusty electric trike cost to operate for that same run? It costs about 10 cents for 20 miles. So for a 4 mile trip, the total cost is . do the math.

I have my truck for hauling things. I have my trike to save money, lots of money. Funny, I am going to trade one of the two in in the next few days. Guess which one stays.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Norway ain’t Anacostia or Malibu or Omaha or anywhere in the US.
Norway???

Funny thing. When my truck breaks (and it does sometimes) I fire up the trusty electric trike and go get parts. It's never the other way around. The Electric Trike is nicknamed "The Parts Getter". I also use it to go get parts for others. When I need to make a fast run to the Market, I fire it up with the press of one button. Parking is always close. The Bike Rack is right next to the front door. When I need to run to the VA to fill a prescription (like in the morning) just jump on it and go and park right next the main entrance instead of the north 40. Am I cold? No colder than if I take my auto since by the time I get my auto warm enough, I am already there and then I have to walk in the cold from the north 40 parking area to the front entrance. it's faster and I get there quicker with the electric trike. And what about cost of operation? My truck gets between 11 and 16mpg but for a short run like that in the cold I will burn a couple or three gallons at 2.50 a gallon. That's no less than 5 bucks for the same trip. What does my trusty electric trike cost to operate for that same run? It costs about 10 cents for 20 miles. So for a 4 mile trip, the total cost is . do the math.

I have my truck for hauling things. I have my trike to save money, lots of money. Funny, I am going to trade one of the two in in the next few days. Guess which one stays.

What generates the electricity for your trike? Does your trike haul what your truck does? If so, why do you have a truck?
You can get a truck that gets way better than 16 mpg.
If more oil is allowed to be extracted your gas price will go down.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Like to see how they work out
Their old vans go hundreds of thousands of miles

I actually have no problem with trying alternative forms of power for transportation. Only make sense. Just don't mandate my toys and towing vehicle away.

Still waiting on the promised Mr. Fusion.
View attachment 303516

I don't look for any mandate quite like that for any number of years. But you have to admit, it's coming. One day, you may have to have a special license to operate a gasoline power vehicle where some company will be able to pollute more by sponsoring your choke and puke car or truck. Some company will figure out a way to capitalize on it, I am sure. You may have to buy an abandoned town in the middle of nowhere in Nevada or Arizona to operate it. Life could get very interesting for that classic 1969 Muscle Car.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Norway ain’t Anacostia or Malibu or Omaha or anywhere in the US.
Norway???

Funny thing. When my truck breaks (and it does sometimes) I fire up the trusty electric trike and go get parts. It's never the other way around. The Electric Trike is nicknamed "The Parts Getter". I also use it to go get parts for others. When I need to make a fast run to the Market, I fire it up with the press of one button. Parking is always close. The Bike Rack is right next to the front door. When I need to run to the VA to fill a prescription (like in the morning) just jump on it and go and park right next the main entrance instead of the north 40. Am I cold? No colder than if I take my auto since by the time I get my auto warm enough, I am already there and then I have to walk in the cold from the north 40 parking area to the front entrance. it's faster and I get there quicker with the electric trike. And what about cost of operation? My truck gets between 11 and 16mpg but for a short run like that in the cold I will burn a couple or three gallons at 2.50 a gallon. That's no less than 5 bucks for the same trip. What does my trusty electric trike cost to operate for that same run? It costs about 10 cents for 20 miles. So for a 4 mile trip, the total cost is . do the math.

I have my truck for hauling things. I have my trike to save money, lots of money. Funny, I am going to trade one of the two in in the next few days. Guess which one stays.

What generates the electricity for your trike? Does your trike haul what your truck does? If so, why do you have a truck?
You can get a truck that gets way better than 16 mpg.
If more oil is allowed to be extracted your gas price will go down.

You don't listen too well. Around here, we use Hydroelectric Power. Other places not far from here use Natural Gas. There are no Coal or oil fired Electric Plants within 250 miles. And the last of those are to be shut down this year.

As for hauling, on a day to day basis, yes, the Trike hauls what my truck does. Groceries or just me.

And you are right, there are better mileage trucks out there and I plan on getting one. But my trusty old Truck has been a great truck. There hasn't been a thing it couldn't haul or drag. The only way to get smooth ride out that log wagon is to load it down with 1500 lbs. I really don't have any complaints in the truck other than it's very, very large and doesn't get great fuel mileage. But if you do have a truck with it's capability, trust me, the new ones won't be doing any better or much better than 16mpg either. Yah, Yah, I know. You know a guy with a Brother who knows a guy that.......

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Like to see how they work out
Their old vans go hundreds of thousands of miles

I actually have no problem with trying alternative forms of power for transportation. Only make sense. Just don't mandate my toys and towing vehicle away.

Still waiting on the promised Mr. Fusion.
View attachment 303516

I don't look for any mandate quite like that for any number of years. But you have to admit, it's coming. One day, you may have to have a special license to operate a gasoline power vehicle where some company will be able to pollute more by sponsoring your choke and puke car or truck. Some company will figure out a way to capitalize on it, I am sure. You may have to buy an abandoned town in the middle of nowhere in Nevada or Arizona to operate it. Life could get very interesting for that classic 1969 Muscle Car.

The market is the only way fossil fuels will be supplanted. Beyond that, it will totally depend on totalitarianism. That’s what you’re promoting.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

But how much fossil fuel will be burned to produce all that electricity?

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Norway ain’t Anacostia or Malibu or Omaha or anywhere in the US.
Norway???

Funny thing. When my truck breaks (and it does sometimes) I fire up the trusty electric trike and go get parts. It's never the other way around. The Electric Trike is nicknamed "The Parts Getter". I also use it to go get parts for others. When I need to make a fast run to the Market, I fire it up with the press of one button. Parking is always close. The Bike Rack is right next to the front door. When I need to run to the VA to fill a prescription (like in the morning) just jump on it and go and park right next the main entrance instead of the north 40. Am I cold? No colder than if I take my auto since by the time I get my auto warm enough, I am already there and then I have to walk in the cold from the north 40 parking area to the front entrance. it's faster and I get there quicker with the electric trike. And what about cost of operation? My truck gets between 11 and 16mpg but for a short run like that in the cold I will burn a couple or three gallons at 2.50 a gallon. That's no less than 5 bucks for the same trip. What does my trusty electric trike cost to operate for that same run? It costs about 10 cents for 20 miles. So for a 4 mile trip, the total cost is . do the math.

I have my truck for hauling things. I have my trike to save money, lots of money. Funny, I am going to trade one of the two in in the next few days. Guess which one stays.

What generates the electricity for your trike? Does your trike haul what your truck does? If so, why do you have a truck?
You can get a truck that gets way better than 16 mpg.
If more oil is allowed to be extracted your gas price will go down.

You don't listen too well. Around here, we use Hydroelectric Power. Other places not far from here use Natural Gas. There are no Coal or oil fired Electric Plants within 250 miles. And the last of those are to be shut down this year.

As for hauling, on a day to day basis, yes, the Trike hauls what my truck does. Groceries or just me.

And you are right, there are better mileage trucks out there and I plan on getting one. But my trusty old Truck has been a great truck. There hasn't been a thing it couldn't haul or drag. The only way to get smooth ride out that log wagon is to load it down with 1500 lbs. I really don't have any complaints in the truck other than it's very, very large and doesn't get great fuel mileage. But if you do have a truck with it's capability, trust me, the new ones won't be doing any better or much better than 16mpg either. Yah, Yah, I know. You know a guy with a Brother who knows a guy that.......

Natural gas is fossil fuel and many places don’t have the hydroelectric option.

 

[Aletheia4u]

Delivery giant UPS has ordered 10,000 electric trucks from Arrival, a technology company based in the UK. Some of the vehicles will be trialed in London and Paris later this year, building on a similar experiment that was run by the two companies in 2018. The pair then hope to deploy the trucks across Europe and North America over the next four years. If everything goes well, UPS has the option to buy another 10,000 vehicles.


UPS will use Arrival’s electric trucks in the US and Europe

The future looks bright.

Lithium batteries aren't environmental friendly. I don't know why they will not use aluminum batteries instead of these poisonous lithium batteries. You still have to mine for lithium as the way you have to mine for coal. But there isn't a coal war.







Mexico, with the largest lithium mine in the world; Chinese seek to exploit it | From the Trenches World Report

Hillary Clinton's brother landed lucrative gold-mining permit in Haiti after Bill Clinton helped country recover from earthquake devastation | Daily Mail Online

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I think one of the main problems with a decent dependable electric vehicle is we load it down with all the same bells and whistles as the gas guzzler. That defeats the purpose of the electric vehicle. If all you have is the bare minimums for operation (No Radio, No Tape Player, No Funny Electronics or Playstations, etc.) it gets even more useful. But we demand what the gas guzzler has. And to tell you the truth, the only computer I need is my Laptop. If I had my way (which I don't) I would drive a 1978 Dodge D100 pickup where the only electronics in it is the ignition. A Car is a different story for long hauls where you need to be entertained and the Electric Vehicle won't fill that bill today. So you have one gas hog and one electric mizer. You drive the electric on a daily basis and use the gas hog when you need it's capability. I really don't even need a CD or DVD player just to go get a sack of groceries and neither do you.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Like to see how they work out
Their old vans go hundreds of thousands of miles

I actually have no problem with trying alternative forms of power for transportation. Only make sense. Just don't mandate my toys and towing vehicle away.

Still waiting on the promised Mr. Fusion.
View attachment 303516

I don't look for any mandate quite like that for any number of years. But you have to admit, it's coming. One day, you may have to have a special license to operate a gasoline power vehicle where some company will be able to pollute more by sponsoring your choke and puke car or truck. Some company will figure out a way to capitalize on it, I am sure. You may have to buy an abandoned town in the middle of nowhere in Nevada or Arizona to operate it. Life could get very interesting for that classic 1969 Muscle Car.

The market is the only way fossil fuels will be supplanted. Beyond that, it will totally depend on totalitarianism. That’s what you’re promoting.

And if you have the choice between breathing and dying because a group of corporations spend billions of dollars lobbying to prevent better choices, then you get your wish. I choose to breath and use alternative energy sources. Even if it's done at the small level I currently do. I walk the walk.

 

[Aletheia4u]

 

[Daryl Hunt]

They may wish to pick the areas they use them. For instance, in Norway, not one single drop will be used on a daily basis. Norway doesn't use anything other than renewable resources for energy. Yes, some fossil fuels (bad name) will be used to make the parts but once they are made and assembled, the actual day to day making of electricity, heat, etc. is from Hydro, Wind and others. They will be the first country to completely get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles and that will happen by the year 2025. Then, we have areas like we have here which uses Hydroelectric Power for Electricity. And then the use of Natural Gas that pollutes less then Coal Fired Plants or Oil fired Plants. Then there is the Nuclear Powered Areas. Obviously some countries and areas won't have the benefits while others will reap huge benefits.

Norway ain’t Anacostia or Malibu or Omaha or anywhere in the US.
Norway???

Funny thing. When my truck breaks (and it does sometimes) I fire up the trusty electric trike and go get parts. It's never the other way around. The Electric Trike is nicknamed "The Parts Getter". I also use it to go get parts for others. When I need to make a fast run to the Market, I fire it up with the press of one button. Parking is always close. The Bike Rack is right next to the front door. When I need to run to the VA to fill a prescription (like in the morning) just jump on it and go and park right next the main entrance instead of the north 40. Am I cold? No colder than if I take my auto since by the time I get my auto warm enough, I am already there and then I have to walk in the cold from the north 40 parking area to the front entrance. it's faster and I get there quicker with the electric trike. And what about cost of operation? My truck gets between 11 and 16mpg but for a short run like that in the cold I will burn a couple or three gallons at 2.50 a gallon. That's no less than 5 bucks for the same trip. What does my trusty electric trike cost to operate for that same run? It costs about 10 cents for 20 miles. So for a 4 mile trip, the total cost is . do the math.

I have my truck for hauling things. I have my trike to save money, lots of money. Funny, I am going to trade one of the two in in the next few days. Guess which one stays.

What generates the electricity for your trike? Does your trike haul what your truck does? If so, why do you have a truck?
You can get a truck that gets way better than 16 mpg.
If more oil is allowed to be extracted your gas price will go down.

You don't listen too well. Around here, we use Hydroelectric Power. Other places not far from here use Natural Gas. There are no Coal or oil fired Electric Plants within 250 miles. And the last of those are to be shut down this year.

As for hauling, on a day to day basis, yes, the Trike hauls what my truck does. Groceries or just me.

And you are right, there are better mileage trucks out there and I plan on getting one. But my trusty old Truck has been a great truck. There hasn't been a thing it couldn't haul or drag. The only way to get smooth ride out that log wagon is to load it down with 1500 lbs. I really don't have any complaints in the truck other than it's very, very large and doesn't get great fuel mileage. But if you do have a truck with it's capability, trust me, the new ones won't be doing any better or much better than 16mpg either. Yah, Yah, I know. You know a guy with a Brother who knows a guy that.......

Natural gas is fossil fuel and many places don’t have the hydroelectric option.

And out of the other "Fossil Fuels" NG puts out the least amount of pollutants. It's plentiful, cheap and it's the number one used. The option of using Coal or Oil Fired (including diesel) should never be considered for a primary power source. You keep looking for reasons to prevent electric vehicles. Well, you ain't doing a very good job of that. Starting in 2025, things are breaking wide open for electric vehicles.

I helped to get a law passed in Colorado that allowed the operation of the Low Speed Electric Bicycle. The Cops all came up with the ruling that if it had a motor it was a motor vehicle and should be treated exactly like a car. The problem is, a low speed electric bicycle cannot meet the legal specification of the NHTA auto regs. And the Federal Laws put the Low Speed Electric Bicycle under the Bicycle Laws in the Public Safety instead of the NHTA for motorized vehicles. I was the last person in this state to get ticketed on a Low Speed Electric Bicycle for operating it outside of the NHTA motor vehicle rules and regs. The Judge got quite a laugh at the Cops expense on that one. But I worked with a Republican (yes, I said republican) state senator and we got the laws in colorado to mirror the federal laws.

The problem is, there are hurdles that are there only to block the electrics from becoming useful. It's becoming less and less each day but it's still there. And the biggest thing is the education of the masses. And consider this section as part of that education.