USAF does something useful and valuable.

[Vrenn]

The Air-force has been resisting the A-10 since it was first conceived and has been trying to kill it for decades

The reason for that was that the testing for the A-10 was cheated against the A-7 big time. The only thing they tested was the internal gun. The GAU-8 versus the M61; 30 mm versus 20mm. They didn't test much of anything else. Plus they didn't allow the A-7 to load it's own 2 30mm gun pods. The A-7E was almost 200 mph faster and carried almost the same load. It was also a mature weapons system.

The mission that Congress was fearing never came to play. The hordes of Armor (tanks) coming across the Varanda of Europe never happened. Had it happened, the A-10 would have had a field day because those tanks (t-54s and back) could not fire back and would be just mowed down. By the time it could have happened, the T-62 got the optics to shoot the A-10 but the horror of the enemas tank attack was past.

They ended up almost inventing a mission for the A-10. They took a mission that the AC-130 was perfect for and used the A-10 which the A-10 was vulnerable and the AC-130 was not. In fact, much of the film in Youtube is done by the AC, not the A-10 .

Meanwhile it has amassed an unsurpassed record in Air to Ground combat

And it was an AC without a mission so they invented one. Much like the Army did with their AH-64 when it first came out.

Airfields have been bombed ever since there have been airplanes
Ground crews have been able to rapidly put them back in service

 

[Vrenn]

A-10's are ugly and awesome. 9/11 probably saved the A-10 and the V-22 from the chopping block. It was a reminder to the institutional memory that they needed actual boots on the ground and close air support to win wars.

We already had close air support. The A-7 was doing that all through Vietnam and was damned good at it.

 

[Vrenn]

I was always impressed that an A-10 over Iraq was hit by a missile and lost ALL of its hydraulics. It had to land using its "manual reversion" control feature. Where the pilot simply manhandles the plane by hand using the controls attached to wires and pulleys.

Reportedly it is very physically difficult to do but the pilot did so despite being a woman.

The difference between the P-38G and the YP-38,

 

[JohnDB]

I personally think that a Blackhawk group of helicopters would be better these days than an A-10.

The Blackhawk itself is usually at least a mile away while smaller and much much faster helicopter gunships do the killing. All are loaded with various missiles suitable for tanks and various armor.

Just saying....101st airborne uses them for a reason.

 

[eagle1462010]

Black Hawks can't take that kind of damage and live.

 

[JohnDB]

Black Hawks can't take that kind of damage and live.

Blackhawk are not supposed to be on the very front line....that's for smaller and faster helicopters that are just as fast as the A-10.
And there are several copters that work with a Blackhawk.

A Blackhawk is a mobile command center....yes it has offensive capabilities but it's main strength is in communicating with ground forces and it's swarm of gunships simultaneously.

Just at a guess, these days it likely has an even larger swarm of drones it controls.

 

[Dayton3]

We already had close air support. The A-7 was doing that all through Vietnam and was damned good at it.

Well, I'm pretty sure the A-7 can't take remotely as much punishment as the A-10 can.

One of the biggest reasons the A-10 is not liked by the Air Force was the rate of crashes during training at low level.

 

[Dekster]

We already had close air support. The A-7 was doing that all through Vietnam and was damned good at it.

The A-7 was retired around 1990.

 

[Dayton3]

The A-7 was retired around 1990.

Well yes. A major part of the post Desert Storm drawdown of the U.S. military.

Regrettable.

 

[Desperado]

MSN

www.msn.com

I've been a big believer in air power expert and writer Bill Gunston about the idea that large air bases would be largely unusable within the first hours of another major war (due to aircraft and missile strikes). Gunston of course is a big promoter of the Harrier family of combat aircraft and similar designs. I agree with this in part but I think moving to using regular highways and even dirt strips is a step forward in this line of thinking as well.

Thoughts?

I remember reading some time ago this was one thing they had in mind when they built the interstate highways

 

[Dayton3]

I remember reading some time ago this was one thing they had in mind when they built the interstate highways

The interstate highways were conceived with military purposes in mind. From evacuating the cities in case of a nuclear attack to rapid movement of troops and supplies. Reportedly, Eisenhower's people were inspired in no small part by the autobahn in Germany.

In Switzerland, they practice pulling up the highway guardrails and operating their F-18s from them.

 

[Vrenn]

Blackhawk are not supposed to be on the very front line....that's for smaller and faster helicopters that are just as fast as the A-10.

The A-10 can run over 400mph. The Apache is less than half that. Even the Cobra is slower (under 200 mph). The A-10 operates by hit and run. It hits hard and gets out fast.But the way it is now, the A-10 will have to use standoff weapons and that takes away any and all advantage the A-10 has and then the F-16 does a better job. You see, the A-10 has a dismal combat range.

And there are several copters that work with a Blackhawk.

Sure, the AH-1Z is just one of them.

A Blackhawk is a mobile command center....yes it has offensive capabilities but it's main strength is in communicating with ground forces and it's swarm of gunships simultaneously.

Only if the bird is setup that way from the factory. Most Blackhawks are slicks with maybe a couple of weapons.

Just at a guess, these days it likely has an even larger swarm of drones it controls.

Don't know about that.

 

[Vrenn]

Well, I'm pretty sure the A-7 can't take remotely as much punishment as the A-10 can.

One of the biggest reasons the A-10 is not liked by the Air Force was the rate of crashes during training at low level.

Actually, it can. It showed that in Vietnam. In Vietnam, there were two Attack USAF birds, the A-7 and the A1E. Both were rugged as hell. When something needed protecting, the F-4s and 5s would get there first and annoy people. Then the A-7 would show up and the Fighters would leave low on fuel. The A-7s would start clearing ground. Just before the A-7 was to hit bingo, the A-1Es would show up. Between the A-7s and the A-1Es, they could tie the ground enemy up for a many hours with the topcap keeping the bad guys off their backs. If you have ever seen a bird come in with tree trunks in it's intake or cowling then you would understand just how dedicated and dangerous those missions were. BTW, in the mix, to pick up the package, was a few Cobra Gunships and usually a Jolly Green. The rule of thumb was, lose 5 to get the one out.

The A-10 replaced both the A-7 and the A-1E but it really couldn't do eithers jobs.

 

[Dayton3]

Incidentally though you wouldn't expect it just to look at them a good pilot in an A-7 is fully capable of outfighting an F-15 thanks to its incredible rate of roll and other advantages. Though the only weapons the A-7 would have for dogfighting would be its cannon and a few Sidewinders.

 

[Vrenn]

Incidentally though you wouldn't expect it just to look at them a good pilot in an A-7 is fully capable of outfighting an F-15 thanks to its incredible rate of roll and other advantages. Though the only weapons the A-7 would have for dogfighting would be its cannon and a few Sidewinders.

And it's forward firing ground attack missiles, rockets and grenades. About 6 ground attacks worth. The A-7 was more rugged. In fact, it was more rugged than any current fighter in any inventory in any country. Just shooting it once or twice may not bring it down. Meanwhile, it did carry the Aim-9s, 2 of them.

 

[Vrenn]

And it's forward firing ground attack missiles, rockets and grenades. About 6 ground attacks worth. The A-7 was more rugged. In fact, it was more rugged than any current fighter in any inventory in any country. Just shooting it once or twice may not bring it down. Meanwhile, it did carry the Aim-9s, 2 of them.

Knowing what we are discussing got me a nice tidy TDY to Weisbadden (sp). We challenged the F-15 pilots to the game of Air Wars which was used in the War College. We were an Enlisted Gaming Club. Most of the members were ranked Federation Chess Players. There was a handful of us that played war games including standard historic board games. We put the world of hurts to those Pilots. They were just too damned cocky. The Wing King challenged me to a flyoff where he got his F-15 and I got a ground attack loaded A-7E with NO Sparrows. Needless to say, I was going to lose.

We merged at 20K. I hit the down elevator fast. One thing the A-7 could do better than the F-15 was to dive straight down and recover in the game and in real life. Hello 50 feet. I flew between building, trees, down gulleys and whatever I could. And at no time did I pop up for a shot. My Gun was worthless. Then again, so was his. And his missile load was just as worthless. He also could not follow because of the terrain. He knew if he made a mistake, the A-7 still had it's 20mm so he was cautious. I was inching my way back to my air field.

We came to a bridge. I popped up a bit due to a tree line, he tried to line up on me, I dropped down and went under the bridge. He went over the bridge. When entering the bridge cover, I dropped flaps, lowered my landing gear and launched everything I had on my wings. He flew into 6 ground attacks worth of 40mm grenades and missiles. Game Over. Now for the rest of the story. Remember in the move Hot Shots where they landed that last fighter straight down just smoldering? That would just about be the way the A-7 would be when it got home. The Wing King asked what I was trying to do. I answered that I was just trying to get home. Truth be known, any given day in the same situation, the F-15 would eat the A-7s lunch. But there was a bit of arrogance and over confidence in the mix.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We need to turn the Ukrainian war from a three-year bloodbath into a few months by putting American troops and air force into the mix. Defeating the Russians NOW is our best option.
-

You want to start WWIII?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The problem is that shoulder fired anti aircraft missiles are fairly common these days....just about every army has them. An A-10 is a target for those missiles.

The A-10's engines are located on top, making them shielded from IR sensors on MAPADs.

 

[Dayton3]

The A-10's engines are located on top, making them shielded from IR sensors on MAPADs.

Plus, in the past A-10s have survived being hit by even medium sized SAMs

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Incidentally though you wouldn't expect it just to look at them a good pilot in an A-7 is fully capable of outfighting an F-15 thanks to its incredible rate of roll and other advantages. Though the only weapons the A-7 would have for dogfighting would be its cannon and a few Sidewinders.

The A-7 has no radar. The only way it would know an enemy aircraft was around would be to physically see it.