Waco a stark reminder of the murderous intent of dictatorial administrations

[PredFan]

One of the problems I had with the whole thing was the fact that the feds could have arrested Koresh in town. He went to a particular hardware store on a regular basis.
They made a mistake trying to take the guy at the compound with all the children there.

NO, the ATF wanted a big splashy raid where they could frog march the Davidians out and show all the weapons they found.

It was poorly planned, they made a lot of horrible mistakes, including going on with the raid after the Davidians had been tipped off.

That said, no one is to blame here except Koresh and those dumb enough to follow him.

Those kids didnt have any say in the matter. The feds knew the kids were there. They showed a serious lack judgement.
They knew damn well that this could turn out the way it did.
I'm not defending Koresh here. The guy was a loon no doubt. But the feds fucked this up from the get go.

I remember a report that there was a good reason to believe that the kids were in danger from the adults in the compound. look, I hate to defend the government and the feds, and I have stated numerous times in this thread alone that mistakes were made, but The Branch Davidians caused this catastrophy, and they could have ended it. I take issue with your assumption that the feds knew the compound would burn to the ground.

 

[rightwinger]

Can we talk about how Randy Weaver got his family killed now?


What ever happened to personal responsibility? You break the law, there is a price to pay

 

[PredFan]

Can we talk about how Randy Weaver got his family killed now?


What ever happened to personal responsibility? You break the law, there is a price to pay

Actually, The feds admit to wrongful acts in the Weaver saga, I seem to remember them airing an official statement to that effect.

Not the same.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

NO, the ATF wanted a big splashy raid where they could frog march the Davidians out and show all the weapons they found.

It was poorly planned, they made a lot of horrible mistakes, including going on with the raid after the Davidians had been tipped off.

That said, no one is to blame here except Koresh and those dumb enough to follow him.

Those kids didnt have any say in the matter. The feds knew the kids were there. They showed a serious lack judgement.
They knew damn well that this could turn out the way it did.
I'm not defending Koresh here. The guy was a loon no doubt. But the feds fucked this up from the get go.

I remember a report that there was a good reason to believe that the kids were in danger from the adults in the compound. look, I hate to defend the government and the feds, and I have stated numerous times in this thread alone that mistakes were made, but The Branch Davidians caused this catastrophy, and they could have ended it. I take issue with your assumption that the feds knew the compound would burn to the ground.

They burned Dorn intentionally. Why would you assume they didnt do the same at Waco?

 

[PredFan]

Those kids didnt have any say in the matter. The feds knew the kids were there. They showed a serious lack judgement.
They knew damn well that this could turn out the way it did.
I'm not defending Koresh here. The guy was a loon no doubt. But the feds fucked this up from the get go.

I remember a report that there was a good reason to believe that the kids were in danger from the adults in the compound. look, I hate to defend the government and the feds, and I have stated numerous times in this thread alone that mistakes were made, but The Branch Davidians caused this catastrophy, and they could have ended it. I take issue with your assumption that the feds knew the compound would burn to the ground.

They burned Dorn intentionally. Why would you assume they didnt do the same at Waco?

Dorn? What is Dorn? Is that a typo?

 

[JoeB131]

One of the problems I had with the whole thing was the fact that the feds could have arrested Koresh in town. He went to a particular hardware store on a regular basis.
They made a mistake trying to take the guy at the compound with all the children there.

NO, the ATF wanted a big splashy raid where they could frog march the Davidians out and show all the weapons they found.

It was poorly planned, they made a lot of horrible mistakes, including going on with the raid after the Davidians had been tipped off.

That said, no one is to blame here except Koresh and those dumb enough to follow him.

Those kids didnt have any say in the matter. The feds knew the kids were there. They showed a serious lack judgement.
They knew damn well that this could turn out the way it did.
I'm not defending Koresh here. The guy was a loon no doubt. But the feds fucked this up from the get go.

The problem I see is you are trying to apply sane judgements to insane people.

If the Davidians were sane, most of them would have walked out of that compound with their kids and said, "Hey, I didn't have anything to do with the shooting".

These were a bunch of whacks who thought the end of the world was coming.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I remember a report that there was a good reason to believe that the kids were in danger from the adults in the compound. look, I hate to defend the government and the feds, and I have stated numerous times in this thread alone that mistakes were made, but The Branch Davidians caused this catastrophy, and they could have ended it. I take issue with your assumption that the feds knew the compound would burn to the ground.

They burned Dorn intentionally. Why would you assume they didnt do the same at Waco?

Dorn? What is Dorn? Is that a typo?

Whoops yeah it is. Dorner.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

NO, the ATF wanted a big splashy raid where they could frog march the Davidians out and show all the weapons they found.

It was poorly planned, they made a lot of horrible mistakes, including going on with the raid after the Davidians had been tipped off.

That said, no one is to blame here except Koresh and those dumb enough to follow him.

Those kids didnt have any say in the matter. The feds knew the kids were there. They showed a serious lack judgement.
They knew damn well that this could turn out the way it did.
I'm not defending Koresh here. The guy was a loon no doubt. But the feds fucked this up from the get go.

The problem I see is you are trying to apply sane judgements to insane people.

If the Davidians were sane, most of them would have walked out of that compound with their kids and said, "Hey, I didn't have anything to do with the shooting".

These were a bunch of whacks who thought the end of the world was coming.

So you have a compound(first indicator) full of religious nut jobs(second indicator)who like guns(third indicator) What could possibly go wrong? I would have been surprised if it had turned out any other way then it did.
As far as the rumor about the children being abused? So killing them is the answer?
Like I said,Koresh was a nut job no doubt. But the feds fucked this up from the get go.
They should have seen this coming. They are pros at this kind of shit and you're telling me they didnt expect it? They should have never tried to raid the compound when they could have arrested Koresh in town. Especially when you consider they knew the raid had been compromised.
I knew the officer who died on the roof. So I have every reason to hate the Davidians.
But this was a fed fuck up plane and simple.

 

[rightwinger]

You know you are in trouble when Law Enforcement start referring to your home as a compound.

Looks like a compound

 

[tinydancer]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

It might have gone down the same way to start out.
But you can bet the blame would have gone the other way when things went to shit.

 

[tinydancer]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

It might have gone down the same way to start out.
But you can bet the blame would have gone the other way when things went to shit.

Damn straight. All hell would have broken loose; Jackson and Sharpton would be marching on Washington with pitch forks and torches.

ETA: I'm not trying to play a "tit for tat" game here. I believe that the reaction to the shooting of the ATF agent would have been wildly different.

 

[Redbone]

They were the only reason the compound was not swarmed 54 days earlier. It is a shame they were used by their parents as human shields. The children could have been released from the compound at any time

Smart as a brick you are. Those children were never used as human shields. They were murdered by the Federal government you sap.

Nobody was murdered and each had ample opportunity to peaceably surrender

Each?? Those kids had that ample opportunity? Or was there being there just a "obstacle" to be ignored for convenience sake?

 

[Redbone]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

It might have gone down the same way to start out.
But you can bet the blame would have gone the other way when things went to shit.

Damn straight. All hell would have broken loose; Jackson and Sharpton would be marching on Washington with pitch forks and torches.

ETA: I'm not trying to play a "tit for tat" game here. I believe that the reaction to the shooting of the ATF agent would have been wildly different.

If happening now to black people in a compound Obama would be far more likely to drone strike the FBI/ATF agents doing the raid...

 

[PredFan]

They burned Dorn intentionally. Why would you assume they didnt do the same at Waco?

Dorn? What is Dorn? Is that a typo?

Whoops yeah it is. Dorner.

Ok, I'll look at it. I don't recall Dorner.

 

[PredFan]

You could hear the screams live. I was on my knees in my living room. No shit man. It was unreal when it went up in flames.

By the time the flames started, yes it was too late then. But there was plenty of time before that for them to end it peacefully.

Look, you are wrong, about everything.
You have already shown you are completely clueless.
Perhaps you should join a forum for the intellectually challenged.
There must be plenty of liberal forums for people with borderline learning disabilities.
Tell me again how tear gas canisters don't generate heat?

You are an idiot and you boor me.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........................

 

[PredFan]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

Ah! Very certainly MUCH different. However, that doesn't really apply to this discussion. If they had been minorities, there would have been a whole lot of politically correct nonsense involved. Since they weren't, it was straight up police action.

 

[PredFan]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

It might have gone down the same way to start out.
But you can bet the blame would have gone the other way when things went to shit.

Damn straight. All hell would have broken loose; Jackson and Sharpton would be marching on Washington with pitch forks and torches.

ETA: I'm not trying to play a "tit for tat" game here. I believe that the reaction to the shooting of the ATF agent would have been wildly different.

No argument there.

 

[PredFan]

It might have gone down the same way to start out.
But you can bet the blame would have gone the other way when things went to shit.

Damn straight. All hell would have broken loose; Jackson and Sharpton would be marching on Washington with pitch forks and torches.

ETA: I'm not trying to play a "tit for tat" game here. I believe that the reaction to the shooting of the ATF agent would have been wildly different.

If happening now to black people in a compound Obama would be far more likely to drone strike the FBI/ATF agents doing the raid...

Very true, however, it's irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[rightwinger]

Let's play a little game.

Let's make the Davidians African American or Hispanic or Asian or all three combined.

How would Reno have dealt with this situation?

Honestly?

If they were black the compound would have been invaded the same day the federal agents were killed