Want to start fixing our economy?

[Paulie]

Hey I don't doubt for a moment that too many Americans are too much in debt.

But if you look at what so much of that debt is for and when it started piling on, what you see is that after we sent our women to work, and then after real purchasing power began to fade, more and more americans started seeking credit.

Then when the credit card bills were too high (after they stopped allowing us to deduct the interest, remember that?) then people started refinancing hteir homes to pay off those bulls.

Now with the price of homes collapsing, people are in serious trouble.

You mention purchasing power fading. That has happened because of the way our government has been allowed to treat the currency. And it all revolves around spending and debt. We inflate the currency to allow for more spending and more debt. This thereby depreciates the currency, to a point where it now has $.04 the purchasing power it had in 1913.

But seeking credit to solve your purchasing power problem is not the answer. How can it be? Buy something you can't afford with cash, only to pay it off later PLUS MORE? I'm not sure how that makes much sense at all. If it's not a necessity for daily survival, then why buy it on interest-bearing credit? You don't NEED it, so why indebt yourself? You have now become a slave by doing so.

You can't have diminishing wages overall, and expect people to be able to cope given the fact t hat people's debt structures are often long term.

Diminishing? Wages are as high as ever. But that's because there's too much money in the system. Sure, a dollar is easy to come by, but remember that last paragraph above you just posted about a purchasing power problem?

I mean it's EASY for a young kid to not spend money. After all he or she probably isn't already committed to a mortgage and lifestyle.

It should be EXTREMELY easy, but the simple fact is that it's NOT. Kids are probably the worst, because they have a niche they are trying to fit into, where not having all the trinkets makes you appear to be less of a person. Gotta have that cool fast car, gotta have those Nike Airs. Can't live without that sound system that cost more than the car you own. Gotta keep buying cigarettes, even though you're not fully addicted, beacuse without them you just don't look as cool to your peers.

It's easy to SAY it's easy, but kids who haven't yet matured to the point where they've realized what's REALLY important in life, are going to be the first one's camping outside Best Buy in the freezing cold to buy the new Playstation 9325127592612, and shooting the guy who cut in front of you.

But those who were okay, who were not dumb, who did not take on too much debt are ALSO now in trouble.

As with anything, there's always going to be exceptions to the rule. I'm willing to bet though, that most people who live within their means and properly save, can weather a medical problem.

I personally could. I mean, it would absolutely KILL me financially, but I wouldn't have to file bankruptcy over it, and because I'm resourceful and a smart consumer, I'll bounce right back like I always have. And I have 2 kids btw, my life isn't a financial cake-walk.

And again I will remind you that until recently most personal bankruptsies were the result of health care disasters rather than foolish spending.

The foolish spending had nothing to do with having to file bankruptcy? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?

Come on, dude.

Like I said, there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.

 

[nfiRONWORKER]

The US has got to stop the mass exodus of companies to other countries, not everyone can be a rocket scientist, we need jobs that accomadate every skill level, a good start would be to to trash the free trade agreement and take back govt incentives to companies that move their operations out of the USA. There's just to many GREEDY people in politics, when they move, they devestate whole communities, our current health care system could work if everyone made a wage in line with our current cost of living.
As companies leave, people are forced to work 2-3 jobs just to exist.
We have been betrayed by our own gov't, when they take their oth of office they sware to protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic, They are all guilty of treason according to the Constitution.

 

[Zoomie1980]

I've been around for 56 yrs, and have watched the various way's people try to get these assho**s attention.
Some say flood your congress person (political correctness) with emails, some say have a big demonstration
on this date, while others try to get everyone to take a day off work on such and such a date.
While all these ideas sound good, there's only one way to get them to listen, that's because the
only thing they understand is money. Well, here's a way everyone can participate and not even have
to organize anything.
So, what is it? CLOSE YOUR WALLET!!!! you don't have to live like a hillbilly to do this,
just ask yourselves when you go to purchase something, is this something I need or has the TV
convinced me I have to have it, so I can use it for a few weeks and than store it in my rent-a-space
with all the other junk I'm paying to store and will probably never use again! THINK for yourself,
don't be swayed by the slime oozing out from your TV set, if everyone stopped spending $100 a month
it would throw them into a panic. Fuc* all that junk, the more you put on your plastic, the longer you
stay there slaves, and guess what, they don't give a sh*it about you, just how much money you spend,
and of course there's not enough money in the world to make them happy, so chances are they already have
plans to move to Mexico or some ware else so they can screw us out of a living and have to take a job
making 1/2 of what you used to make, so, CLOSE YOUR WALLET.

And then hit the soup line as your company that makes, imports, markets, ships that "junk" goes out of business and fires you.....

 

[Zoomie1980]

Blaming the victims much there, Paulitics?

People without debt are ALSO having trouble spending money on needed things given the cost of energy is destroying their home economies.

The myth that most people are in trouble because of credit debt is just that...a cherished neo-con myth.

If you look at the cause of bankruptsies before the current run up in energy prices, you discover that the number one cause of personal bankruptsy was HEALTH CARE disasters.

Now honesly...who can prepare for the cost of major health problems who are not multimillionaires?

What people? My local SuperWallMart is packed to the gills. So is Target, Kohls, Shopko..... And if you have a brain and a skill, you are working and have insurance. You aren't rich but your paying your bills. If you have more bills than income, you need to live smaller, simple.

 

[editec]

And if you have a brain and a skill, you are working and have insurance.

Another cherished neo-con myth.

Woudl that that were entirely true.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let us assume that the average American did not have $8000 in credit card debts for purposes of this discussion.

Would a family making $50,000 a year, (that's about the median family income) one with no credit card debt I mean, be able to weather a serious medical problem, then?

The fact is that the average working family cannot possibly save enough money to pay for the inevitable health care problems that they will eventually face, folks.

I don't really give a rat's ass how frugal they are, or how debt free they are, a serious (but common) medical problem can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The cost of medicine has risen far faster than the average salary for the last fourty years.

So to suggest that one can save enough money to deal with a serious medical problem just doesn't add up. The numbers make no sense whatever.

The average family doesn't make enough money to save for that kind of medical disaster.

Face it folks, every one of us sooner or later has that kind of medical disaster unless we're lucky enough to have a fatal heart attack before we even know we were sick.

your argument is flawed here. you are assuming that people will have to pay ALL medical costs out of pocket when in reality all they have to do is pay an insurance premium of some few hundred dollars a month. for most people budgeting and less spending on unneeded stuff will free up that money.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Blaming the victims much there, Paulitics?

People without debt are ALSO having trouble spending money on needed things given the cost of energy is destroying their home economies.

The myth that most people are in trouble because of credit debt is just that...a cherished neo-con myth.

If you look at the cause of bankruptsies before the current run up in energy prices, you discover that the number one cause of personal bankruptsy was HEALTH CARE disasters.

Now honesly...who can prepare for the cost of major health problems who are not multimillionaires?

How about anyone that works, who has a functioning brain, that buys their company's disability and medical insurance? Hell, we even offer disability and health insurance to our interns, if they want it.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Another cherished neo-con myth.

Woudl that that were entirely true.

What's not true? 98% of those who want to work in the US still are and almost ALL of those either have insurance or have the opportunity to get it. They only
"myth" if that we have all these millions who have no health or disability insurance because they have to ability to get it. The TRUTH is almost all have the opportunity to purchase insurance, but would rather smoke or drink the premiums or do some other foolish nonsense than paying premiums.

 

[Paulie]

There are decent plans you can buy on your own that cost around $400-$500 per month. I'm sure out of the 38 million who don't have insurance, or whatever the number is now, that MOST of them can cut frivolous expenses out of their lives to gain the extra $500/mo for health insurance.

But we don't want to do that in this country, do we? We'd rather the government just give it to us, so we can go on living, pardon the expression, ****** rich.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Let us assume that the average American did not have $8000 in credit card debts for purposes of this discussion.

Would a family making $50,000 a year, (that's about the median family income) one with no credit card debt I mean, be able to weather a serious medical problem, then?

The fact is that the average working family cannot possibly save enough money to pay for the inevitable health care problems that they will eventually face, folks.

I don't really give a rat's ass how frugal they are, or how debt free they are, a serious (but common) medical problem can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The cost of medicine has risen far faster than the average salary for the last fourty years.

So to suggest that one can save enough money to deal with a serious medical problem just doesn't add up. The numbers make no sense whatever.

The average family doesn't make enough money to save for that kind of medical disaster.

Face it folks, every one of us sooner or later has that kind of medical disaster unless we're lucky enough to have a fatal heart attack before we even know we were sick.

Family of four making $50,000 pays virtually NO income taxes, even if they don't have a mortgage. Count state and local taxes they are probably bringing home over $40,000 of it. We'll make it easy number and say they are probably bringing home $3500 a month. You can rent a suitable place in most of the heartland for $750-$1000 a month. A well thought out meal plan can get a family of four by on about $600 or so a month. You can have a funcitonal car these days for $2500 and if you financed even at a high interest rate you'd be paying less than $150 month X2 for two cars. doesn't get you much of a car but they will function. Average ppo insurance plan for a family of four an most companies will run you about $300 or so. Disability? most firms offer for free. Need only liability on a $2500 car. Homeowners, renters insurance? $50-$75. Utilities? 78 in summer 65-68 in winter in most parts of the country on a house/apartment for above said money...$120-$150 a mo. so add it up.

Worst case 1000+600+300+300+75 I'm at 2275 so far, add $300 for gasoline leaving 925 left over! But this family has no credit card debt, lives in a very modest house/apartment, drives 15 year old used cars, probably has hand-me-down furniture from mom and dad with a few nice pieces thrown in. And they buy their clothes at garage sales and Goodwill.

But how many families making $50,000 live like that? No, most are too STUPID to live that way. They buy brand new SUV's, have to have a house full of hi-dev TVs with Tivo;'s and XBox 360's and PS 3's etc.... Kids have to be in Air Jordans or some other nonsensical fashion. Mom has to have a weekly $50 hairdo and they probably smoke/drink through $200 a month. Buy $100/mo in lottery tickets, and so on and so forth....

No most of the "median" family folks are in a pickle because the CHOSE TO BE THAT WAY!!!!

 

[Paulie]

Family of four making $50,000 pays virtually NO income taxes, even if they don't have a mortgage. Count state and local taxes they are probably bringing home over $40,000 of it. We'll make it easy number and say they are probably bringing home $3500 a month. You can rent a suitable place in most of the heartland for $750-$1000 a month. A well thought out meal plan can get a family of four by on about $600 or so a month. You can have a funcitonal car these days for $2500 and if you financed even at a high interest rate you'd be paying less than $150 month X2 for two cars. doesn't get you much of a car but they will function. Average ppo insurance plan for a family of four an most companies will run you about $300 or so. Disability? most firms offer for free. Need only liability on a $2500 car. Homeowners, renters insurance? $50-$75. Utilities? 78 in summer 65-68 in winter in most parts of the country on a house/apartment for above said money...$120-$150 a mo. so add it up.

Worst case 1000+600+300+300+75 I'm at 2275 so far, add $300 for gasoline leaving 925 left over! But this family has no credit card debt, lives in a very modest house/apartment, drives 15 year old used cars, probably has hand-me-down furniture from mom and dad with a few nice pieces thrown in. And they buy their clothes at garage sales and Goodwill.

But how many families making $50,000 live like that? No, most are too STUPID to live that way. They buy brand new SUV's, have to have a house full of hi-dev TVs with Tivo;'s and XBox 360's and PS 3's etc.... Kids have to be in Air Jordans or some other nonsensical fashion. Mom has to have a weekly $50 hairdo and they probably smoke/drink through $200 a month. Buy $100/mo in lottery tickets, and so on and so forth....

No most of the "median" family folks are in a pickle because the CHOSE TO BE THAT WAY!!!!

YEah, but how are they going to be able to show their faces to the Jones' next door living like THAT?