Warming seas decimate Bering Sea Snow Crab population

[flacaltenn]

And very likely wouldn't have survived the 130 million or so years they've been here. But good to have your opinion on the matter.

You dont KNOW they been "there" for 130 million years. "There" in terms of prime fisheries is rather small. And it depends on the RATE of warming. Whether the species has time to ADAPT to that forcing. So -- DO THE WORK. Dont post GLOBAL AVERAGE anything. Get the temperature in those prime fisheries and find the HISTORICAL 100 year (at least) record. NO ONE -- including NOAA has posted that in ANY of the "Snow Crab" latest mystery chapter.

AND YOU"RE STILL posting "Global Averages" when the problem is in a SMALL SECTION of the Bering strait. Earth does NOT HAVE JUST ONE -- climate zone. I'm helping you out here dude and you dont even realize that. Because NO crabs anywhere are dying from the GLOBAL ocean warming rise. It's gonna BE a "local effect" that MAY have climate implications INdirectly.

That's how LITTLE you've ACTUALLY learned about GW over several decades and thousands of posts.

 

[flacaltenn]

And because the Arctic ALWAYS has a HIGHER CLIMATE SENSITIVITY than any other region on the planet it COULD BE -- "a canary in the coal mine" -- but I doubt that. There are 2 or 4 OTHER explanations for a crab shortage.

Just like the OTHER more reasonable reasons for the NWestern oyster shortage or the "coral bleaching" that was a "thing" 10 years before they discovered that DIVERS and tourist snorkelers using sunscreen were capable of TREMENDOUS coral bleaching.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The fishermen deny this is happening. They say the climate cultists want to end fishing like they want to end farming and ranching.

 

[Crick]

You dont KNOW they been "there" for 130 million years. "There" in terms of prime fisheries is rather small.

By "here" I meant the planet Earth.

And it depends on the RATE of warming. Whether the species has time to ADAPT to that forcing.

Excellent!!! You are the FIRST AGW denier I've ever seen recognize that point.

So -- DO THE WORK. Dont post GLOBAL AVERAGE anything.

I'll post whatever I want dude.

Get the temperature in those prime fisheries and find the HISTORICAL 100 year (at least) record. NO ONE -- including NOAA has posted that in ANY of the "Snow Crab" latest mystery chapter.

Some informative Bering Sea data from an article pre-print accepted by Geophysical Research Letters authored by Woodgate & Peralta-Ferriz

Figure 1. Annual mean Bering Strait properties. (a) Summer satellite (MODIS) Sea Surface Temperature (SST) image of the Bering Strait region showing moorings (black dots) and NCEP wind points (X) [from Woodgate et al., 2010]. (b) Total northward volume transport estimated from A2 (grey) and from A3 with corrections (black, with uncertainty dashed), the latter split into volume colder than (blue crosses) or at/warmer than (red pluses) 0°C, and into the pressure- manuscript in press for Geophysical Research Letters head (green circles) or local wind-driven (brown triangles) contributions. From A3 (black) and A2 data (grey), annual mean (c) near-bottom temperature with SST (red); (h) salinity; (g,i) heat and freshwater transports respectively, with corrections (red) for the Alaskan Coastal Current (ACC) and surface layer/stratification. From 30-day smoothed A3 data, first (d) and last (e) Julian day (JD) above 0°C and number of days above 0°C (f), showing (blue) when 30-day smoothed SSM/I ice concentration at A3 first/last falls below 20% (melt-back) (d); rises above 20% (freeze-up) (e), and open water time between these dates (f).

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/HLD/Bstrait/WoodgateandPeralta-Ferriz_BStraitWarmingandFreshening_GRL_AcceptedApril2021.pdf

And, from NOAA, aggregate data on the movement of multiple Bearing Sea marine species over the last 50 years

This graph shows the annual change in latitude (movement in miles) and depth (feet) of 78 marine species along the Northeast coast and 53 in the eastern Bering Sea. The multi-region average consists of 140 unique species. Changes in the centers of biomass have been aggregated across all species and by region.

Data source: NOAA and Rutgers University, 20214
Web update: April 2021

Climate Change Indicators: Marine Species Distribution | US EPA

This indicator examines changes in the location of fish, shellfish, and other marine species along U.S. coasts.

www.epa.gov

AND YOU"RE STILL posting "Global Averages" when the problem is in a SMALL SECTION of the Bering strait. Earth does NOT HAVE JUST ONE -- climate zone.

It is patently obvious that you simply wish to throw obstructions my way.

I'm helping you out here dude and you dont even realize that.

Because you're not and we both know it.

Because NO crabs anywhere are dying from the GLOBAL ocean warming rise. It's gonna BE a "local effect" that MAY have climate implications INdirectly.

You have no idea what may or may not have happened to the 7 billion crabs that have disappeared over the last 3 years. Local data from numerous sources have told us that warming in the Pacific NW, both air and water, has been GREATER than the global averages. I'm taking the conservative route here. Besides which, I have not posted global data in this thread except in response to the recent nutcases (EMH and Flash) who've been attempting to argue that there has been no ocean warming anywhere.

That's how LITTLE you've ACTUALLY learned about GW over several decades and thousands of posts.

Your disingenuous pretense that you're only trying to help is going to make me spew. Have the guts to stop trying (poorly) to bullshit folks here. You lost the façade of "nice guy" a long time ago.

 

[EMH]

There have been five mass extinctions and we're working on the sixth right now. Where the fuck have you been?

Fictitious warming is killing nothing

Too many humans eating too many crabs

 

[Crick]

Fictitious warming is killing nothing

Too many humans eating too many crabs

TROLL

 

[ding]

Man made global warming is a convenient excuse.

Overfishing/migration is the real reason. But don’t expect the people who allowed the overfishing to be honest about their mistake.

 

[Crick]

Man made global warming is a convenient excuse.

Overfishing/migration is the real reason. But don’t expect the people who allowed the overfishing to be honest about their mistake.

That doesn't seem to be what the experts are saying

Expert identifies what caused a massive die-off of Alaska’s snow crabs

Last week, there was mass confusion as to why Alaskan snow crabs have disappeared.

www.pennlive.com

 

[ding]

That doesn't seem to be what the experts are saying

Expert identifies what caused a massive die-off of Alaska’s snow crabs

Last week, there was mass confusion as to why Alaskan snow crabs have disappeared.

www.pennlive.com

You mean the experts who allowed the over fishing?

 

[Crick]

You mean the experts who allowed the over fishing?

No.

Fishing during this period was "allowed" by Alaska Department of Fish and Game, the same people who have now closed the Bering Sea snow crab season for 2022-23. Recall that just before this disappearance, there was an enormous population boom. It was not unreasonable of them to allow continued crabbing given what they were looking at. But, with the benefit of hindsight...

The expert referenced in this article is Erin Fedewa, a marine biologist with the Alaska Fisheries Science Center who said that "the shocking numbers seen today are the result of heatwaves in 2018 and 2019".

 

[ding]

No.

Fishing during this period was "allowed" by Alaska Department of Fish and Game, the same people who have now closed the Bering Sea snow crab season for 2022-23. Recall that just before this disappearance, there was an enormous population boom. It was not unreasonable of them to allow continued crabbing given what they were looking at. But, with the benefit of hindsight...

The expert referenced in this article is Erin Fedewa, a marine biologist with the Alaska Fisheries Science Center who said that "the shocking numbers seen today are the result of heatwaves in 2018 and 2019".

You said no but then described yes.

The “heat wave” killed the crabs? Was the water boiling?

 

[Crick]

You said no but then described yes.

I was making clear that crabbing in Alaskan waters is controlled by their Fish and Game Commission, not by the Alaska Fisheries Science Center who employs Erin Fedewa, the expert in question. I was pointing out YOUR error.

The “heat wave” killed the crabs? Was the water boiling?

You ought to read up on the temperature requirements of snow crabs over their entire life cycle before making more ignorant comments.

 

[ding]

I was making clear that crabbing in Alaskan waters is controlled by their Fish and Game Commission, not by the Alaska Fisheries Science Center who employs Erin Fedewa, the expert in question. I was pointing out YOUR error.

You ought to read up on the temperature requirements of snow crabs over their entire life cycle before making more ignorant comments.

They are thick as thieves. Like I said before it’s a convenient excuse to blame their allowing them to be overfished.

 

[Crick]

They are thick as thieves.

You've got the inside scoop on the Alaskan crabbing administration community? Give us a fucking break.

Like I said before it’s a convenient excuse to blame their allowing them to be overfished.

Unfortunately, there is no evidence that they were overfished. The amount taken is known and should have been easily sustained given the PREVIOUS crab census.

 

[ding]

You've got the inside scoop on the Alaskan crabbing administration community? Give us a fucking break.

Unfortunately, there is no evidence that they were overfished. The amount taken is known and should have been easily sustained given the PREVIOUS crab census.

I know human nature. You think it’s reasonable to blame a 1 degree increase in the mean global temperature over 200 years, I think it’s reasonable to blame overfishing and migration.

 

[Crick]

I know human nature. You think it’s reasonable to blame a 1 degree increase in the mean global temperature over 200 years, I think it’s reasonable to blame overfishing and migration.

Let's repeat. A census conducted in 2018 estimated the population at over 8 billion crabs, more than enough to sustain the allowed catch. Please explain how you conclude they were overfished.

 

[ding]

Let's repeat. A census conducted in 2018 estimated the population at over 8 billion crabs, more than enough to sustain the allowed catch. Please explain how you conclude they were overfished.

Because they are gone.

 

[Crick]

Because they are gone.

So, again, you've got nothing. Seven billion crabs disappeared. Seven billion crabs were NOT removed by crabbers. Something ELSE happened to them. Versteht?

 

[ding]

So, again, you've got nothing. Seven billion crabs disappeared. Seven billion crabs were NOT removed by crabbers. Something ELSE happened to them. Versteht?

They all don’t have to be removed by fisherman for overfishing to decimate the population. Overfishing and migration is the simplest and most reasonable explanation.

 

[ding]

Man made global warming is a convenient excuse.

And easily swallowed by the faithful.