Warren and the Divine Right of Capital: Accountable Capitalism Act

[Andylusion]

Market value, is the only value.

See the problem shows up in your own post.

"Real money on the other hand, is finite, traceable, and ...what investors ultimately care about"

But real money has no value itself, except what you can trade it for.... such as stock.

Money itself only has a market value. We know this because money itself can go up and down in value. Point being, there is nothing in this world that has 'inherent' value. All value is a market value. It's all worth, only what other people are willing to exchange it for.

Money itself, has no more value to it, than what someone is willing to exchange for it..... just like stock has no value except for what people are willing to trade it for.

ALL THAT SAID...

When you said that Google has no voting rights... I found that rather unlikely.

Google Stock: A Tale of Two Share Classes (GOOG, GOOGL)

So a little background: There are different classes of shares. Class B, are the insider shares. These have 10 votes each, and are not sold publicly.

Class C shares, are the lowest class, and have no voting rights.

Class A shares, have voting rights. If you want voting rights, you can buy shares with them.

As for dividend payments...

You never know if the policy might change. Apple never paid a dividend from 1976 to 2011. Now they pay dividends.

More importantly, not paying dividends didn't stop people from owning stock in Apple, and making really good returns on it, from 1976 to 2011.

So I don't see a problem.

What is interesting just in thinking about it... it's fascinating how many hundreds of times left-wing people on here have complained about corporations giving money to the shareholders. Now you are pointing to companies that don't pay out to shareholders, and complaining about those companies.

Is there anything any company can do, that you won't find fault with? Just curious.

So a little background: There are different classes of shares. Class B, are the insider shares. These have 10 votes each, and are not sold publicly.

Class C shares, are the lowest class, and have no voting rights.

Class A shares, have voting rights. If you want voting rights, you can buy shares with them.

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Ponzi scheme - A Simple Explanation of the Concept

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Not even close, by definition.

ot even close, by definition.

Close enough to convince all rational people.
Not so sure about mindless Trump toadies.

How true is the statement that the stock market is essentially a Ponzi scheme? - Quora

"The fact is:

1. What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors. Profits from buying and selling stocks come from other investors who are buying and selling stocks. When one investor buys low and sells high, another investor is also buying high and needs to sell for even higher."

What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always

Are you sure you want to bring family into this discussion, Porky?

Sure. My parents were public school teachers. That's it.

They just bought a lake house on Lake Erie, using investment money from their careers as public school teachers.

That doesn't include their main house, that is worth $750K.

My parents taught me to save, and invest. That's why they are millionaires today.

What did your parents teach you? How to complain about the system that produces the most wealthy for the most people, more than any other country on Earth?

 

[Andylusion]

And he beat one of the smartest women in America.

What happens to the Biggest Fools when capitalism's inherent bubbles inevitably POP?

Our economy will still be miles ahead of your favorite commie economies.

What happens to the Biggest Fools when capitalism's inherent bubbles inevitably POP?

Our economy will still be miles ahead of your favorite commie economies.

Can you say that in Mandarin?

"The Chinese economy advanced 6.0 percent year-on-year in the September quarter of 2019, slowing from a 6.2 percent expansion in the previous quarter and compared with market expectations of 6.1 percent.

"It was the weakest growth rate since the first quarter of 1992, amid persistent trade tensions with the US, weakening global demand and alarming off-balance-sheet borrowings by local governments. GDP Annual Growth Rate in China averaged 9.39 percent from 1989 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 15.40 percent in the first quarter of 1993 and a record low of 3.80 percent in the fourth quarter of 1990."

China GDP Annual Growth Rate | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Can you say that in Mandarin?

Commie economies suck, in Mandarin.

The Chinese economy advanced 6.0 percent year-on-year in the September quarter of 2019​

If you believe those numbers, you're even dumber than I first suspected.

If you believe those numbers, you're even dumber than I first suspected.

You believe this useless POS?

Source: Trump 'seething' about Cohen, says 'he's a liar' - CNN Video

Yes, Commie lies about statistics are just like Cohen.

That's rich.
A capitalist WHINING about lies.

Wall Street Is the Definition of a Ponzi Scheme (Literally)

"The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) defines a Ponzi scheme as '[a]n investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.'

"The stock market is a Ponzi scheme.

"A Ponzi scheme is the stock market.

"Some may argue that a Ponzi scheme usually involves lying to the investor.

"But Wall Street has that in spades as well.

"Most investors don’t understand that they own literally nothing.

"They don’t know that they are simply gambling.

"And they don’t know that their profit relies on everyone still believing the fraud is real."

Well yeah, capitalists are whining about lies. Lying is evil and wrong. When you do it, all good people should complain about lies.

Not only should we complain about you lying just because lying is wrong, but we should complain about you lying, because your lies doom people to starvation and death.

As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of Hunger

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And he beat one of the smartest women in America.

What happens to the Biggest Fools when capitalism's inherent bubbles inevitably POP?

Our economy will still be miles ahead of your favorite commie economies.

What happens to the Biggest Fools when capitalism's inherent bubbles inevitably POP?

Our economy will still be miles ahead of your favorite commie economies.

Can you say that in Mandarin?

"The Chinese economy advanced 6.0 percent year-on-year in the September quarter of 2019, slowing from a 6.2 percent expansion in the previous quarter and compared with market expectations of 6.1 percent.

"It was the weakest growth rate since the first quarter of 1992, amid persistent trade tensions with the US, weakening global demand and alarming off-balance-sheet borrowings by local governments. GDP Annual Growth Rate in China averaged 9.39 percent from 1989 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 15.40 percent in the first quarter of 1993 and a record low of 3.80 percent in the fourth quarter of 1990."

China GDP Annual Growth Rate | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Can you say that in Mandarin?

Commie economies suck, in Mandarin.

The Chinese economy advanced 6.0 percent year-on-year in the September quarter of 2019​

If you believe those numbers, you're even dumber than I first suspected.

If you believe those numbers, you're even dumber than I first suspected.

You believe this useless POS?

Source: Trump 'seething' about Cohen, says 'he's a liar' - CNN Video

Yes, Commie lies about statistics are just like Cohen.

That's rich.
A capitalist WHINING about lies.

Wall Street Is the Definition of a Ponzi Scheme (Literally)

"The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) defines a Ponzi scheme as '[a]n investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.'

"The stock market is a Ponzi scheme.

"A Ponzi scheme is the stock market.

"Some may argue that a Ponzi scheme usually involves lying to the investor.

"But Wall Street has that in spades as well.

"Most investors don’t understand that they own literally nothing.

"They don’t know that they are simply gambling.

"And they don’t know that their profit relies on everyone still believing the fraud is real."

A capitalist WHINING about lies.

Pointing out Commie lies isn't whining.

How's your Trabant running?

'[a]n investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.'

Selling your stock isn't "the payment of a purported return". It's a sale.

"The stock market is a Ponzi scheme.

You're an idiot.

"Most investors don’t understand that they own literally nothing.

Just because you own literally nothing........LOL!

"They don’t know that they are simply gambling.

As opposed to what? Keeping your money under your mattress?

 

[georgephillip]

Can't believe I waded through 14 pages on this thread. George, are you feeling underpaid for the value you provide to your employer and this is the way you hope to extract more money from the company you work for?

After you and Warren successfully ruin the USA, are you going after China or Russia with this scheme, because you can be damn sure neither of those countries operates like Europe (which you seem extremely fond of).

How expensive are one-way tickets to Spain? Brush up on your Spanish.

Is capitalism working well for you, OMG?
If so, I suspect you are among the investor class.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Not investing, by definition, makes you an idiot..... unless you are a monk somewhere with a vow of poverty, or something.

Instead of crying, and whining about investors.... stop being an idiot, and become an investor yourself.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

And stop spamming the thread. If you don't cut it out, I'll have you reported, and your posts removed.

This is a forum for discussion... not you doing cut and paste every post.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Yet only the richest ten percent of Americans "earn" enough money to join the US investor class. Are you arguing the US economy should work only for the richest ten percent of Americans while consigning the remaining 90% of workers to endure one round of austerity measures after another?

Being an investor isn't dependent on how much you earn. Again, a janitor ended up with $8 Million. So you don't have to earn big bucks to end up in the 'investor class'. In fact, I'm in the investor class, and yet I haven't earned more than $30k a year.

The poorest people can be part of the investor class. It's a matter of.... choosing to invest.

How to Become a Millionaire on Minimum Wage | The Motley Fool

If you put in just $50 a month, from age 18.... consistently, year over year... into good growth mutual funds, you'll end up a millionaire, even if you are making just minimum wage.

Anyone can be in the investor class... you just need to make the choice to invest. If you choose to not be an investor, that's not a problem of society, or the economy. That's a problem on you.

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

The richest ten percent of households now control 70% of all US wealth, and you won't slow that rate of acquisition by putting $50 month into a mutual account.

The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth

 

[Andylusion]

Can't believe I waded through 14 pages on this thread. George, are you feeling underpaid for the value you provide to your employer and this is the way you hope to extract more money from the company you work for?

After you and Warren successfully ruin the USA, are you going after China or Russia with this scheme, because you can be damn sure neither of those countries operates like Europe (which you seem extremely fond of).

How expensive are one-way tickets to Spain? Brush up on your Spanish.

Is capitalism working well for you, OMG?
If so, I suspect you are among the investor class.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Not investing, by definition, makes you an idiot..... unless you are a monk somewhere with a vow of poverty, or something.

Instead of crying, and whining about investors.... stop being an idiot, and become an investor yourself.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

And stop spamming the thread. If you don't cut it out, I'll have you reported, and your posts removed.

This is a forum for discussion... not you doing cut and paste every post.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Yet only the richest ten percent of Americans "earn" enough money to join the US investor class. Are you arguing the US economy should work only for the richest ten percent of Americans while consigning the remaining 90% of workers to endure one round of austerity measures after another?

Being an investor isn't dependent on how much you earn. Again, a janitor ended up with $8 Million. So you don't have to earn big bucks to end up in the 'investor class'. In fact, I'm in the investor class, and yet I haven't earned more than $30k a year.

The poorest people can be part of the investor class. It's a matter of.... choosing to invest.

How to Become a Millionaire on Minimum Wage | The Motley Fool

If you put in just $50 a month, from age 18.... consistently, year over year... into good growth mutual funds, you'll end up a millionaire, even if you are making just minimum wage.

Anyone can be in the investor class... you just need to make the choice to invest. If you choose to not be an investor, that's not a problem of society, or the economy. That's a problem on you.

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

The richest ten percent of households now control 70% of all US wealth, and you won't slow that rate of acquisition by putting $50 month into a mutual account.

The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth

Which again.... that's a personal choice.

If all people would save just.... $100..... or even $50 a month.... just $50 a month into growth stock mutual funds, the share of assets owned by the wealthy would be less than half of what it is, in a few years.

The reason they own the most, is simply because the rest of the public isn't saving and investing. They are being stupid and borrowing $20,000 at 5% on a car that goes down in value.

That's a choice. A bad choice... but a choice. It's not the rich people's fault, when you make a bad choice.

 

[daveman]

nothing in america is free. if you are getting something without paying for it, see a taxpayer and thank him! everyday!

Would that taxpayer be among the richest ten percent of Americans?

Free Lunch - David Cay Johnston - Book Review

"'Free Lunch' consists of 26 chapters, each a case study of a corporation enriching itself through lax or solicitous government: beggar-thy-neighbor state and local tax breaks to lure businesses, government subsidies for sports stadium construction, electricity deregulation and so on."

Imho, rich people have been getting things without paying for them for as long as the USA has existed.

Over much of that time corporations have expanded their power largely through the courts.

Warren is calling for a democratic (congressional) reassessment of the political leverage corporations, and the investor class they fund, have acquired over the majority of Americans across the past two hundred years.

Poor people have been getting things without paying for them for a long time, too.

Thing is, the policies Warren insists we need, and you blindly parrot, will only put people out of work and dependent on government.

Despite what you've been led to believe, that is not a good thing.

Poor people have been getting things without paying for them for a long time, too.

Thing is, the policies Warren insists we need, and you blindly parrot, will only put people out of work and dependent on government.

Despite what you've been led to believe, that is not a good thing.

How did FDR respond when the owners of capital could not or would not provide jobs during the Great Depression?

Green New Deal - Wikipedia

Less reliable, more expensive energy…...just what we need to grow our economy...…..DURR

Georgie any idiot can post pics. How about an original thought or two?

Georgie any idiot can post pics. How about an original thought or two?

Original thought?
Do you mean am I capable of thinking about something no one has ever thought of before?
No.
This is a board for political opinions not original thoughts.
Since there are many publishing regularly on the Internet who share my opinions and are more qualified than I to opine on these subjects, I link my beliefs to sources that I believe support my opinions.
Why would anyone post regularly online without taking advantage of the wealth of information existing there?

So you would rather post other people’s thoughts? I ll explain why because you’re dumb. No one clicks on or reads your links. No one. You’re wasting your time. This is one of your few posts that I read because they were actually your words.

32,000 posts over 10 yrs and only 5,000 ratables, probably half of which were "funnies" as in "the post is STUPID, GP." Nobody takes the bitter commie seriously … nobody.

Georgie is a parasite.

All socialists and Commies are parasites.

 

[Andylusion]

Can't believe I waded through 14 pages on this thread. George, are you feeling underpaid for the value you provide to your employer and this is the way you hope to extract more money from the company you work for?

After you and Warren successfully ruin the USA, are you going after China or Russia with this scheme, because you can be damn sure neither of those countries operates like Europe (which you seem extremely fond of).

How expensive are one-way tickets to Spain? Brush up on your Spanish.

Is capitalism working well for you, OMG?
If so, I suspect you are among the investor class.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Not investing, by definition, makes you an idiot..... unless you are a monk somewhere with a vow of poverty, or something.

Instead of crying, and whining about investors.... stop being an idiot, and become an investor yourself.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

And stop spamming the thread. If you don't cut it out, I'll have you reported, and your posts removed.

This is a forum for discussion... not you doing cut and paste every post.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Yet only the richest ten percent of Americans "earn" enough money to join the US investor class. Are you arguing the US economy should work only for the richest ten percent of Americans while consigning the remaining 90% of workers to endure one round of austerity measures after another?

Being an investor isn't dependent on how much you earn. Again, a janitor ended up with $8 Million. So you don't have to earn big bucks to end up in the 'investor class'. In fact, I'm in the investor class, and yet I haven't earned more than $30k a year.

The poorest people can be part of the investor class. It's a matter of.... choosing to invest.

How to Become a Millionaire on Minimum Wage | The Motley Fool

If you put in just $50 a month, from age 18.... consistently, year over year... into good growth mutual funds, you'll end up a millionaire, even if you are making just minimum wage.

Anyone can be in the investor class... you just need to make the choice to invest. If you choose to not be an investor, that's not a problem of society, or the economy. That's a problem on you.

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

The richest ten percent of households now control 70% of all US wealth, and you won't slow that rate of acquisition by putting $50 month into a mutual account.

The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth

This is like, there is a pizza on the table, and everyone says "Dig in", and I start eating it. You never grab a slice, and never eat anything. Eventually we get done, and the pizza is gone, and I've had most of the pizza.

Then you start screaming "You ate most of the pizza, and I didn't get any!".

That's on you. Stop making stupid choices.


The irony in this conversation is that half the posts by you in this thread, are about how the stock market is a terrible evil ponzi scheme......


But then you turn right around and complain the Rich own most of the wealth.... which is primarily in Stock assets.

So which is it?

Are stocks a ponzi scheme, and good thing the rich own them all, and not us?

Or is it bad the rich own most of the stocks, and we should go buy some for ourselves?

Dude it can't be both. It's one or the other. You can't complain that cake is terrible and no on should eat it, and then complain that rich people have all the cake, and it's terrible we don't get more.

You can't play this bonkers schizos game.

 

[daveman]

Trump borrowing from China to pay Chinese company hit by his trade war with China up to $560 million

And he beat one of the smartest women in America.

What happens to the Biggest Fools when capitalism's inherent bubbles inevitably POP?

Our economy will still be miles ahead of your favorite commie economies.

What happens to the Biggest Fools when capitalism's inherent bubbles inevitably POP?

Our economy will still be miles ahead of your favorite commie economies.

Can you say that in Mandarin?

"The Chinese economy advanced 6.0 percent year-on-year in the September quarter of 2019, slowing from a 6.2 percent expansion in the previous quarter and compared with market expectations of 6.1 percent.

"It was the weakest growth rate since the first quarter of 1992, amid persistent trade tensions with the US, weakening global demand and alarming off-balance-sheet borrowings by local governments. GDP Annual Growth Rate in China averaged 9.39 percent from 1989 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 15.40 percent in the first quarter of 1993 and a record low of 3.80 percent in the fourth quarter of 1990."

China GDP Annual Growth Rate | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Can you say that in Mandarin?

Commie economies suck, in Mandarin.

The Chinese economy advanced 6.0 percent year-on-year in the September quarter of 2019​

If you believe those numbers, you're even dumber than I first suspected.

I expect their economy did advance at least some...by selling human organs harvested from prisoners.

Hey, George -- Commies are huge pieces of shit.

I expect their economy did advance at least some...by selling human organs harvested from prisoners.

Hey, George -- Commies are huge pieces of shit.

So are most capitalists

Conference: Slavery and Capitalism

So, you can't even be bothered to condemn Communist China for selling people's organs.

You're a piece of shit, too.

 

[daveman]

nothing in america is free. if you are getting something without paying for it, see a taxpayer and thank him! everyday!

Would that taxpayer be among the richest ten percent of Americans?

Free Lunch - David Cay Johnston - Book Review

"'Free Lunch' consists of 26 chapters, each a case study of a corporation enriching itself through lax or solicitous government: beggar-thy-neighbor state and local tax breaks to lure businesses, government subsidies for sports stadium construction, electricity deregulation and so on."

Imho, rich people have been getting things without paying for them for as long as the USA has existed.

Over much of that time corporations have expanded their power largely through the courts.

Warren is calling for a democratic (congressional) reassessment of the political leverage corporations, and the investor class they fund, have acquired over the majority of Americans across the past two hundred years.

Poor people have been getting things without paying for them for a long time, too.

Thing is, the policies Warren insists we need, and you blindly parrot, will only put people out of work and dependent on government.

Despite what you've been led to believe, that is not a good thing.

Poor people have been getting things without paying for them for a long time, too.

Thing is, the policies Warren insists we need, and you blindly parrot, will only put people out of work and dependent on government.

Despite what you've been led to believe, that is not a good thing.

How did FDR respond when the owners of capital could not or would not provide jobs during the Great Depression?

Green New Deal - Wikipedia

Less reliable, more expensive energy…...just what we need to grow our economy...…..DURR

Less reliable, more expensive energy…...just what we need to grow our economy...…..DURR

Greedy bitch.

Go to your home's electrical box and throw the big switch labeled MAIN. This will have two effects:

1. You will stop enabling Big Energy.

2. You're spare the rest of us from your retardery.

 

[daveman]

nothing in america is free. if you are getting something without paying for it, see a taxpayer and thank him! everyday!

Would that taxpayer be among the richest ten percent of Americans?

Free Lunch - David Cay Johnston - Book Review

"'Free Lunch' consists of 26 chapters, each a case study of a corporation enriching itself through lax or solicitous government: beggar-thy-neighbor state and local tax breaks to lure businesses, government subsidies for sports stadium construction, electricity deregulation and so on."

Imho, rich people have been getting things without paying for them for as long as the USA has existed.

Over much of that time corporations have expanded their power largely through the courts.

Warren is calling for a democratic (congressional) reassessment of the political leverage corporations, and the investor class they fund, have acquired over the majority of Americans across the past two hundred years.

Poor people have been getting things without paying for them for a long time, too.

Thing is, the policies Warren insists we need, and you blindly parrot, will only put people out of work and dependent on government.

Despite what you've been led to believe, that is not a good thing.

Poor people have been getting things without paying for them for a long time, too.

Thing is, the policies Warren insists we need, and you blindly parrot, will only put people out of work and dependent on government.

Despite what you've been led to believe, that is not a good thing.

How did FDR respond when the owners of capital could not or would not provide jobs during the Great Depression?

Green New Deal - Wikipedia

Bad example. FDR's policies dragged out the great depression. In fact, FDRs policies caused a recession inside the great depression.

Similarly, the Green New Deal would only screw us over.

Bad example. FDR's policies dragged out the great depression. In fact, FDRs policies caused a recession inside the great depression.

FDR's New Deal put millions of Americans back to work when capitalists CRASHED the global economy in 1929. A Green New Deal would have a similar effect; however, rich parasites among the US investor class would not be among those who benefit.

You probably even believe all that horseshit. That just means you're a gullible idiot.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Can't believe I waded through 14 pages on this thread. George, are you feeling underpaid for the value you provide to your employer and this is the way you hope to extract more money from the company you work for?

After you and Warren successfully ruin the USA, are you going after China or Russia with this scheme, because you can be damn sure neither of those countries operates like Europe (which you seem extremely fond of).

How expensive are one-way tickets to Spain? Brush up on your Spanish.

Is capitalism working well for you, OMG?
If so, I suspect you are among the investor class.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Not investing, by definition, makes you an idiot..... unless you are a monk somewhere with a vow of poverty, or something.

Instead of crying, and whining about investors.... stop being an idiot, and become an investor yourself.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

And stop spamming the thread. If you don't cut it out, I'll have you reported, and your posts removed.

This is a forum for discussion... not you doing cut and paste every post.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Yet only the richest ten percent of Americans "earn" enough money to join the US investor class. Are you arguing the US economy should work only for the richest ten percent of Americans while consigning the remaining 90% of workers to endure one round of austerity measures after another?

Being an investor isn't dependent on how much you earn. Again, a janitor ended up with $8 Million. So you don't have to earn big bucks to end up in the 'investor class'. In fact, I'm in the investor class, and yet I haven't earned more than $30k a year.

The poorest people can be part of the investor class. It's a matter of.... choosing to invest.

How to Become a Millionaire on Minimum Wage | The Motley Fool

If you put in just $50 a month, from age 18.... consistently, year over year... into good growth mutual funds, you'll end up a millionaire, even if you are making just minimum wage.

Anyone can be in the investor class... you just need to make the choice to invest. If you choose to not be an investor, that's not a problem of society, or the economy. That's a problem on you.

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

The richest ten percent of households now control 70% of all US wealth, and you won't slow that rate of acquisition by putting $50 month into a mutual account.

The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

Whining about it isn't increasing your share.

 

[daveman]

How do you square this circle: The structure and legal basis of the modern MAGA corporation bears a great deal of resemblance to feudal estates, and this reality is at odds in an era that claims to value democracy over the Divine Right of Kings?

Warren has a plan:

Accountable Capitalism Act - Wikipedia

"The Accountable Capitalism Act, 115th Congress (2017-2018) S. 3348 is a proposed federal bill introduced by Senator Elizabeth Warren in August 2018.

"It would require that employees elect 40% of a board of directors of any corporation with over $1 billion in tax receipts, and that 75% of shareholders and directors must approve any political spending.

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter.

"The Act contains a 'constituency statute' that would give directors a duty of 'creating a general public benefit' with regard to a corporation's stakeholders, including shareholders, employees, and the environment, and the interests of the enterprise in the long-term.[1]"

The US is among a minority of OECD countries that gives no representation to the workforce (majority) in corporate governance.

For years Warren has claimed "corporations are not people."

Now her Accountable Capitalism Act demands that corporations that claim the legal rights of personhood should be legally required to accept the moral obligations of personhood.

You make the claim that Capitalism resembles the Feudal State? And post this?

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter.

Do you understand that in the days of Feudalism....that is when organizations needed a "Royal" charter to exist...right?

Do you understand that in the days of Feudalism....that is when organizations needed a "Royal" charter to exist...right?

I understand this Royal Turd will not be in the White House much longer

Do you?
After which time, US corporations will be subject to "We the People" which is about as far from a royal charter as any sane person can imagine.

It's hilarious how you think you'll have a say.

Stupid Commie. No seat on the Politburo for you!

 

[georgephillip]

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Ponzi scheme - A Simple Explanation of the Concept

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Not even close, by definition.

ot even close, by definition.

Close enough to convince all rational people.
Not so sure about mindless Trump toadies.

How true is the statement that the stock market is essentially a Ponzi scheme? - Quora

"The fact is:

1. What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors. Profits from buying and selling stocks come from other investors who are buying and selling stocks. When one investor buys low and sells high, another investor is also buying high and needs to sell for even higher."

What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always

Are you sure you want to bring family into this discussion, Porky?

Sure. My parents were public school teachers. That's it.

They just bought a lake house on Lake Erie, using investment money from their careers as public school teachers.

That doesn't include their main house, that is worth $750K.

My parents taught me to save, and invest. That's why they are millionaires today.

What did your parents teach you? How to complain about the system that produces the most wealthy for the most people, more than any other country on Earth?

My parents taught me to save, and invest. That's why they are millionaires today.

What did your parents teach you? How to complain about the system that produces the most wealthy for the most people, more than any other country on Earth?

You and your hard-working family, along with all other Americans, are about 5% of global population. Your lifestyles and mine are paid for in places like Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Yemen. Capitalism has murdered hundreds of millions of innocent human beings across the past five hundred years so that greedy, ignorant Americans can prosper. If that's something you celebrate, it's not hard to understand why you hold the political views you do.

 

[daveman]

Market value, is the only value.

See the problem shows up in your own post.

"Real money on the other hand, is finite, traceable, and ...what investors ultimately care about"

But real money has no value itself, except what you can trade it for.... such as stock.

Money itself only has a market value. We know this because money itself can go up and down in value. Point being, there is nothing in this world that has 'inherent' value. All value is a market value. It's all worth, only what other people are willing to exchange it for.

Money itself, has no more value to it, than what someone is willing to exchange for it..... just like stock has no value except for what people are willing to trade it for.

ALL THAT SAID...

When you said that Google has no voting rights... I found that rather unlikely.

Google Stock: A Tale of Two Share Classes (GOOG, GOOGL)

So a little background: There are different classes of shares. Class B, are the insider shares. These have 10 votes each, and are not sold publicly.

Class C shares, are the lowest class, and have no voting rights.

Class A shares, have voting rights. If you want voting rights, you can buy shares with them.

As for dividend payments...

You never know if the policy might change. Apple never paid a dividend from 1976 to 2011. Now they pay dividends.

More importantly, not paying dividends didn't stop people from owning stock in Apple, and making really good returns on it, from 1976 to 2011.

So I don't see a problem.

What is interesting just in thinking about it... it's fascinating how many hundreds of times left-wing people on here have complained about corporations giving money to the shareholders. Now you are pointing to companies that don't pay out to shareholders, and complaining about those companies.

Is there anything any company can do, that you won't find fault with? Just curious.

So a little background: There are different classes of shares. Class B, are the insider shares. These have 10 votes each, and are not sold publicly.

Class C shares, are the lowest class, and have no voting rights.

Class A shares, have voting rights. If you want voting rights, you can buy shares with them.

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Ponzi scheme - A Simple Explanation of the Concept

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Not even close, by definition.

ot even close, by definition.

Close enough to convince all rational people.
Not so sure about mindless Trump toadies.

How true is the statement that the stock market is essentially a Ponzi scheme? - Quora

"The fact is:

1. What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors. Profits from buying and selling stocks come from other investors who are buying and selling stocks. When one investor buys low and sells high, another investor is also buying high and needs to sell for even higher."

What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Self-cannibalizing Ponzi scheme characteristic of the greediest society ever to inhabit planet Earth.

"This is actually a negative-sum situation because the underlying company isn’t involved in the transaction.

"The investors are just cannibalizing each other for profits, and there are fees attached to every transaction.”

"Ah, cannibalizing each other for profits—now this is starting to sound like an American enterprise! It says it right there on our flag, 'America: Cannibalizing each other for profits since 1776!'"

Ponzi World (Over 3 Billion NOT Served): The Stock Market Ponzi Scheme. Occupy Deep Karma.

You claim capitalists are greedy...but you and other socialists think you're entitled to what you didn't earn.

YOU'RE greedy, George. This is undeniable.

 

[daveman]

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Ponzi scheme - A Simple Explanation of the Concept

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Not even close, by definition.

ot even close, by definition.

Close enough to convince all rational people.
Not so sure about mindless Trump toadies.

How true is the statement that the stock market is essentially a Ponzi scheme? - Quora

"The fact is:

1. What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors. Profits from buying and selling stocks come from other investors who are buying and selling stocks. When one investor buys low and sells high, another investor is also buying high and needs to sell for even higher."

What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Self-cannibalizing Ponzi scheme characteristic of the greediest society ever to inhabit planet Earth.

"This is actually a negative-sum situation because the underlying company isn’t involved in the transaction.

"The investors are just cannibalizing each other for profits, and there are fees attached to every transaction.”

"Ah, cannibalizing each other for profits—now this is starting to sound like an American enterprise! It says it right there on our flag, 'America: Cannibalizing each other for profits since 1776!'"

Ponzi World (Over 3 Billion NOT Served): The Stock Market Ponzi Scheme. Occupy Deep Karma.

You still whining because your pals lost the Cold War? LOL!

George wept bitter tears when the Wall came down.

 

[daveman]

Is capitalism working well for you, OMG?
If so, I suspect you are among the investor class.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Not investing, by definition, makes you an idiot..... unless you are a monk somewhere with a vow of poverty, or something.

Instead of crying, and whining about investors.... stop being an idiot, and become an investor yourself.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

And stop spamming the thread. If you don't cut it out, I'll have you reported, and your posts removed.

This is a forum for discussion... not you doing cut and paste every post.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Yet only the richest ten percent of Americans "earn" enough money to join the US investor class. Are you arguing the US economy should work only for the richest ten percent of Americans while consigning the remaining 90% of workers to endure one round of austerity measures after another?

Being an investor isn't dependent on how much you earn. Again, a janitor ended up with $8 Million. So you don't have to earn big bucks to end up in the 'investor class'. In fact, I'm in the investor class, and yet I haven't earned more than $30k a year.

The poorest people can be part of the investor class. It's a matter of.... choosing to invest.

How to Become a Millionaire on Minimum Wage | The Motley Fool

If you put in just $50 a month, from age 18.... consistently, year over year... into good growth mutual funds, you'll end up a millionaire, even if you are making just minimum wage.

Anyone can be in the investor class... you just need to make the choice to invest. If you choose to not be an investor, that's not a problem of society, or the economy. That's a problem on you.

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

The richest ten percent of households now control 70% of all US wealth, and you won't slow that rate of acquisition by putting $50 month into a mutual account.

The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth

This is like, there is a pizza on the table, and everyone says "Dig in", and I start eating it. You never grab a slice, and never eat anything. Eventually we get done, and the pizza is gone, and I've had most of the pizza.

Then you start screaming "You ate most of the pizza, and I didn't get any!".

That's on you. Stop making stupid choices.


The irony in this conversation is that half the posts by you in this thread, are about how the stock market is a terrible evil ponzi scheme......


But then you turn right around and complain the Rich own most of the wealth.... which is primarily in Stock assets.

So which is it?

Are stocks a ponzi scheme, and good thing the rich own them all, and not us?

Or is it bad the rich own most of the stocks, and we should go buy some for ourselves?

Dude it can't be both. It's one or the other. You can't complain that cake is terrible and no on should eat it, and then complain that rich people have all the cake, and it's terrible we don't get more.

You can't play this bonkers schizos game.

George is Orwell's Doublethink in action.

He really believes both those mutually-contradictory ideas.

 

[Cellblock2429]

How do you square this circle: The structure and legal basis of the modern MAGA corporation bears a great deal of resemblance to feudal estates, and this reality is at odds in an era that claims to value democracy over the Divine Right of Kings?

Warren has a plan:

Accountable Capitalism Act - Wikipedia

"The Accountable Capitalism Act, 115th Congress (2017-2018) S. 3348 is a proposed federal bill introduced by Senator Elizabeth Warren in August 2018.

"It would require that employees elect 40% of a board of directors of any corporation with over $1 billion in tax receipts, and that 75% of shareholders and directors must approve any political spending.

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter.

"The Act contains a 'constituency statute' that would give directors a duty of 'creating a general public benefit' with regard to a corporation's stakeholders, including shareholders, employees, and the environment, and the interests of the enterprise in the long-term.[1]"

The US is among a minority of OECD countries that gives no representation to the workforce (majority) in corporate governance.

For years Warren has claimed "corporations are not people."

Now her Accountable Capitalism Act demands that corporations that claim the legal rights of personhood should be legally required to accept the moral obligations of personhood.

/——-/ Unless employees own significant shares of stock or are invested in a privately held company, they have no say in how the company is run. Don’t like it? Then quit and work somewhere else.

/——-/ Unless employees own significant shares of stock or are invested in a privately held company, they have no say in how the company is run. Don’t like it? Then quit and work somewhere else.

What's wrong with any of the following, Loon?

Accountable Capitalism Act - Wikipedia

"The Accountable Capitalism Act, 115th Congress (2017-2018) S. 3348 is a proposed federal bill introduced by Senator Elizabeth Warren in August 2018.

"It would require that employees elect 40% of a board of directors of any corporation with over $1 billion in tax receipts, and that 75% of shareholders and directors must approve any political spending.

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter.

"The Act contains a 'constituency statute' that would give directors a duty of 'creating a general public benefit' with regard to a corporation's stakeholders, including shareholders, employees, and the environment, and the interests of the enterprise in the long-term.[1]"

/----/ All socialist Bullshyt designed to hamper the economic growth of our country,
"It would require that employees elect 40% of a board of directors..." Who the hell thinks the employees are qualified to pick the Board? The janitor and receptionist get a say? What if the employees are minimum wage, with limited education? They would just be guessing. That's idiotic.

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter." Why? For what purpose? So Progs can over regulate them to death? Besides, it would just cause the companies to restrict their revenue to $999,999,999.99 and to split off into separate companies. Nothing you want will get accomplished. They can just restructure. Gubmint tired this crap in the 1970s with "Whip Inflation Now" and it was a dud. Companies found workarounds. Only the employees got screwed.

"The Act contains a 'constituency statute' that would give directors a duty of 'creating a general public benefit' More liberal double talk. Pure horseshyt with zero benefits and more regulation.

 

[Andylusion]

So...would we agree that many of today's perpetually dividend-less companies traded on public markets are operating as Ponzi schemes by definition?

Not even close, by definition.

ot even close, by definition.

Close enough to convince all rational people.
Not so sure about mindless Trump toadies.

How true is the statement that the stock market is essentially a Ponzi scheme? - Quora

"The fact is:

1. What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors. Profits from buying and selling stocks come from other investors who are buying and selling stocks. When one investor buys low and sells high, another investor is also buying high and needs to sell for even higher."

What makes a stock price move is not the earnings or growth of the underlying company, but the the exchange of money between investors.

Money isn't moving back and forth thru the hands of an "organizer".
There is no guarantee, no promise of high returns. 100% of my purchase goes to the seller.
No need for increasing numbers of "investors" to continue to scheme. One buyer-one seller works.
No skimming. No Ponzi scheme.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always.

Don't worry, you never ever have to invest. I'm sure Mom's coach will be there for you, always

Are you sure you want to bring family into this discussion, Porky?

Sure. My parents were public school teachers. That's it.

They just bought a lake house on Lake Erie, using investment money from their careers as public school teachers.

That doesn't include their main house, that is worth $750K.

My parents taught me to save, and invest. That's why they are millionaires today.

What did your parents teach you? How to complain about the system that produces the most wealthy for the most people, more than any other country on Earth?

My parents taught me to save, and invest. That's why they are millionaires today.

What did your parents teach you? How to complain about the system that produces the most wealthy for the most people, more than any other country on Earth?

You and your hard-working family, along with all other Americans, are about 5% of global population. Your lifestyles and mine are paid for in places like Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Yemen. Capitalism has murdered hundreds of millions of innocent human beings across the past five hundred years so that greedy, ignorant Americans can prosper. If that's something you celebrate, it's not hard to understand why you hold the political views you do.

You are an idiot now. If you really believe that, then you have condemned yourself with your own statement.

If you want to fix that, be my guest at moving to Venezuela, where no one is being forced to pay for the lifestyles of others... and they are dying of starvation.

 

[initforme]

It's pretty easy to accept the fact that if you are not born into money you are never going to have it. It matters not how hard you are willing to work. But you can squeak by....be elated for that.

 

[Andylusion]

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Not investing, by definition, makes you an idiot..... unless you are a monk somewhere with a vow of poverty, or something.

Instead of crying, and whining about investors.... stop being an idiot, and become an investor yourself.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

And stop spamming the thread. If you don't cut it out, I'll have you reported, and your posts removed.

This is a forum for discussion... not you doing cut and paste every post.

Well yeah. That's how you stop being poor.

If you never join the investor class, then you will be poor until you die.

That's not a problem of the investor class... that's a problem of you being stupid.

All smart people are investors. ALL.... ALL smart people are investors.

Yet only the richest ten percent of Americans "earn" enough money to join the US investor class. Are you arguing the US economy should work only for the richest ten percent of Americans while consigning the remaining 90% of workers to endure one round of austerity measures after another?

Being an investor isn't dependent on how much you earn. Again, a janitor ended up with $8 Million. So you don't have to earn big bucks to end up in the 'investor class'. In fact, I'm in the investor class, and yet I haven't earned more than $30k a year.

The poorest people can be part of the investor class. It's a matter of.... choosing to invest.

How to Become a Millionaire on Minimum Wage | The Motley Fool

If you put in just $50 a month, from age 18.... consistently, year over year... into good growth mutual funds, you'll end up a millionaire, even if you are making just minimum wage.

Anyone can be in the investor class... you just need to make the choice to invest. If you choose to not be an investor, that's not a problem of society, or the economy. That's a problem on you.

None of which changes the fact the richest ten percent own the vast majority of stocks in the US and virtually all of the voting shares.

The richest ten percent of households now control 70% of all US wealth, and you won't slow that rate of acquisition by putting $50 month into a mutual account.

The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth

This is like, there is a pizza on the table, and everyone says "Dig in", and I start eating it. You never grab a slice, and never eat anything. Eventually we get done, and the pizza is gone, and I've had most of the pizza.

Then you start screaming "You ate most of the pizza, and I didn't get any!".

That's on you. Stop making stupid choices.


The irony in this conversation is that half the posts by you in this thread, are about how the stock market is a terrible evil ponzi scheme......


But then you turn right around and complain the Rich own most of the wealth.... which is primarily in Stock assets.

So which is it?

Are stocks a ponzi scheme, and good thing the rich own them all, and not us?

Or is it bad the rich own most of the stocks, and we should go buy some for ourselves?

Dude it can't be both. It's one or the other. You can't complain that cake is terrible and no on should eat it, and then complain that rich people have all the cake, and it's terrible we don't get more.

You can't play this bonkers schizos game.

George is Orwell's Doublethink in action.

He really believes both those mutually-contradictory ideas.

I have to admit, this is the most bold and clear ideological self-mutilation I've ever seen from a left-winger. I literally watched a man hang himself with his own words. It was fascinating to watch.