What have the poor done to deserve our support?

[Intense]

Charity is limited in what they can do for the poor. They always have been. In good times, they are flush with funds and do not have as many people to help. In hard times, their funding dries up and they have more people asking for help.

The Government is always there for those in need. Not just with food and shelter but with healthcare, educational support, jobs programs......things that charity does not provide

Charity is limited by donation....

You personally don't like it if someone else does not give as much as YOU think is enough for others to equalize outcome

The government's job is NOT to ensure your every personal need is taken care of... Government's job is to protect the freedoms of all citizens so that they can succeed or fail all on their own

Sorry but we are not a Darwinistic society


Thank god we don't allow people like yourself to make decisions

You have no control over the free will of anybody you Fascist Idiot. Freudian slip there RW?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The only problem with your point is that you have not yet learned to distinguish between Charity and Forced Compliance. Learn to give voluntarily, from your Heart RD.

Now give me your wallet, with everything in it. Give me a big smile and a hug too.

There is no material difference to the poor person whether his handout came from a voluntary contribution or as you call it 'forced'. It has the same effect on him, and thus if you believe conservative propaganda, it makes him lazy and dependent.

BTW, since government social programs are democratically created, it is only a fraction of the people who pay for them who have any cause to call them 'forced'.

There is QUITE a difference in how it is obtained, WHICH IS THE FUCKING POINT... you advocate control, others advocate freedom.... Nobody is OWED the means for caring for themselves.. unless, that is, they are wards of the state

Governments cannot function if they are limited to unanimous consent before they can do anything.

 

[Clementine]

In frequent threads here the brain-dead leftists moan about how the "idle rich" (like there is such a thing) don't deserve their money. But look at the other side. The poor in this country enjoy a lifestyle envied by even middle class people in most of the world. What have they done to deserve this? The idlest of the idle rich invest money and help other hard working people get ahead. The poor simply absorb tax payer funding and have babies.

Some people are down and out despite their best efforts. Those are the ones that we seek to help and I've never heard anyone object to that, on either side. Liberals see victims everywhere and coddle anyone who might be willing to support them. Liberal politicians require as many dependents as possible to ensure their power and they are expert at creating government dependents. The premise seems to be that any person is entitled to everything by virtue of the fact that they were born. Liberals expect nothing from their dependents other than blind obedience and a vote. In exchange, the person will receive things for nothing.

I have a huge problem with the growing number of people who seek to scam the system and a government who is reticent to call them up on it. They see increased applications for welfare as a success. It means they have more people who are unlikely to bite the hand that feeds them.

We see illegal aliens getting disability checks, along with free housing, food, utilities and medical. Where is the incentive to work if politicians will support you just for the asking? I know there are needy who have no choice, but I also know there are people who have a choice and they have opted to take what they can even though they could do better for themselves if they were so inclined. Now that more jobs are gone forever, more have no choice but to turn to government. I believe this is by design.

Able bodied people have soaked the system for years and they no longer have the desire to do for themselves. I think this was the intent. Now, those who are hopelessy workshy have increased to the point where they can turn elections in their favor. We were warned by our forefathers that once the majority of the populace realized that they could vote to have the wealth from others passed to them, it was the beginning of the end for the country.

 

[Intense]

There is no material difference to the poor person whether his handout came from a voluntary contribution or as you call it 'forced'. It has the same effect on him, and thus if you believe conservative propaganda, it makes him lazy and dependent.

BTW, since government social programs are democratically created, it is only a fraction of the people who pay for them who have any cause to call them 'forced'.

There is QUITE a difference in how it is obtained, WHICH IS THE FUCKING POINT... you advocate control, others advocate freedom.... Nobody is OWED the means for caring for themselves.. unless, that is, they are wards of the state

Governments cannot function if they are limited to unanimous consent before they can do anything.

It is not about unanimous consent or Consensus. New Powers, or Redefining Powers should be about Constitutional Amendment. 66% to bring to the floor for debate, 75% to Ratify. You know that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Idiot...

Again... Jesus never called for the forced confiscation from others

Actually Jesus' admonishment was to pay your taxes.

But by your own measure, it's forced confiscation that causes me to pay for the portion of defense spending that I don't support.

Jesus's call to give was not tied to the confiscation by government... but nice try...

It is forced confiscation in taxes to pay for national defense.. which is for every person/citizen EQUALLY... not for the confiscation of some for the sole benefit of others...

If you can elect enough people to change the poverty programs, or abolish them, then by all means do so.

 

[Intense]

Actually Jesus' admonishment was to pay your taxes.

But by your own measure, it's forced confiscation that causes me to pay for the portion of defense spending that I don't support.

Jesus's call to give was not tied to the confiscation by government... but nice try...

It is forced confiscation in taxes to pay for national defense.. which is for every person/citizen EQUALLY... not for the confiscation of some for the sole benefit of others...

If can elect enough people to change the poverty programs, or abolish them, then by all means do so.

What do you want to support? Do you want to Nurse for a Lifetime or reach and teach ability? Do you want to invest in ability or dependency?

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is QUITE a difference in how it is obtained, WHICH IS THE FUCKING POINT... you advocate control, others advocate freedom.... Nobody is OWED the means for caring for themselves.. unless, that is, they are wards of the state

Governments cannot function if they are limited to unanimous consent before they can do anything.

It is not about unanimous consent or Consensus. New Powers, or Redefining Powers should be about Constitutional Amendment. 66% to bring to the floor for debate, 75% to Ratify. You know that.

How many years have its opponents had to get the food stamp program ruled unconstitutional?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Jesus's call to give was not tied to the confiscation by government... but nice try...

It is forced confiscation in taxes to pay for national defense.. which is for every person/citizen EQUALLY... not for the confiscation of some for the sole benefit of others...

If can elect enough people to change the poverty programs, or abolish them, then by all means do so.

What do you want to support? Do you want to Nurse for a Lifetime or reach and teach ability? Do you want to invest in ability or dependency?

Then why not start by abolishing and outlawing all public education. That is something that more Americans depend on than practically everything else,

since you want to focus on this canard of 'dependency'.

 

[Intense]

Governments cannot function if they are limited to unanimous consent before they can do anything.

It is not about unanimous consent or Consensus. New Powers, or Redefining Powers should be about Constitutional Amendment. 66% to bring to the floor for debate, 75% to Ratify. You know that.

How many years have its opponents had to get the food stamp program ruled unconstitutional?

You tell me. I'm not against Food Stamps. I'm not against a Safety Net. The Focus should be using these programs transitionally, there needs to be a time when the Dependent learn skills and move to the next level. There should be some form of exchange. Community Service, Volunteer Work, whatever. Build Character, rather than knock it down.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It is not about unanimous consent or Consensus. New Powers, or Redefining Powers should be about Constitutional Amendment. 66% to bring to the floor for debate, 75% to Ratify. You know that.

How many years have its opponents had to get the food stamp program ruled unconstitutional?

You tell me. I'm not against Food Stamps. I'm not against a Safety Net. The Focus should be using these programs transitionally, there needs to be a time when the Dependent learn skills and move to the next level. There should be some form of exchange. Community Service, Volunteer Work, whatever. Build Character, rather than knock it down.

And when military families qualify for food stamps, what then? Put them to work parttime?

 

[Intense]

If can elect enough people to change the poverty programs, or abolish them, then by all means do so.

What do you want to support? Do you want to Nurse for a Lifetime or reach and teach ability? Do you want to invest in ability or dependency?

Then why not start by abolishing and outlawing all public education. That is something that more Americans depend on than practically everything else,

since you want to focus on this canard of 'dependency'.

No matter what we do there, we will survive it. I would support Public Education, as long as there are Alternatives. The Teachers Unions are too powerful and will always put the Teachers interests above the interests of the Children, the way things stand now. Charter Schools are a Viable Alternative and should be allowed to develop without the Unions screwing with them. Charter, Parochial, and Public Schools have always complimented each other and worked well in NYC. You know that. Each, influences and effects what goes on in the others.

In New York State, Teachers are now the Highest Paid State Employees. Sorry, but I see that as a problem. That is a Power and Influence effect, and it is unsustainable.

 

[Katzndogz]

If you pay someone to do something, you should expect that they will get better at it. This includes being poor. We pay people to be poor. We pay them quite well for being poor. They have gotten quite creative at being poor. A poor person today has all the comforts and conveniences of someone who isn't at all poor. Their poverty is one of conviction. We are all to be convinced that they are poor.

We have paid people to be poor for generations so they are quite good at it. The job of poverty is handed down from father to son and mother to daughter. What is happening is that resentment is building up that poverty may have become a bit too comfortable, and too many people are going without themselves to make sure the poverty nest is property feathered. Take that guy who used to make $80,000 a year, had a nice house, new car every two years. He falls on hard times. He loses his job. His wife gets sick and he stays home to care for her. He is now poor. But, he fully expects him to be maintained in the exact same lifestyle that he had when he was making good money. Because he is now "poor" he has convinced a lot of people to maintain his past lifestyle. When he asks for higher taxes, more benefits, he's asking this of the gas station attendant and the girl who hands him a latte at Starbucks to start paying his mortgage.

The poor are making themselves despicable.

 

[DiamondDave]

They are the ones who clean up your shit, make your burger, and make sure Walmart has your favorite brand of Depends. You are douche bag Rabbi.

And they have been paid appropriately for their labors...

If everyone on the fucking planet were not qualified to do the same exact thing, they could then probably demand more for their labor... if you do not improve yourself, what you can bring to the table in skills, etc, it is not up to society or government to make up for it

"And they have been paid appropriately for their labors..."

I think that proably our biggest problem is that that is very rarely true.
It would probably be at least as true to say that those who work the hardest are paid the least.

If you and every other human on Earth could perform the task... you're not going to be paid as much as you would if you had a specialized skill... sorry.. that's the way it is and why fry cooks don't get experienced welder pay

 

[DiamondDave]

How many years have its opponents had to get the food stamp program ruled unconstitutional?

You tell me. I'm not against Food Stamps. I'm not against a Safety Net. The Focus should be using these programs transitionally, there needs to be a time when the Dependent learn skills and move to the next level. There should be some form of exchange. Community Service, Volunteer Work, whatever. Build Character, rather than knock it down.

And when military families qualify for food stamps, what then? Put them to work parttime?

When I was stationed stateside and on a regular schedule in the Army... I earned extra money with a second job bartending when my first child was on the way... no dishonor in doing so... and knew that as an e-4, I was not going to be making big enough money with raising a child..

 

[DiamondDave]

Actually Jesus' admonishment was to pay your taxes.

But by your own measure, it's forced confiscation that causes me to pay for the portion of defense spending that I don't support.

Jesus's call to give was not tied to the confiscation by government... but nice try...

It is forced confiscation in taxes to pay for national defense.. which is for every person/citizen EQUALLY... not for the confiscation of some for the sole benefit of others...

If you can elect enough people to change the poverty programs, or abolish them, then by all means do so.

And I will vote to help make that happen, and work toward it in ways which I can... who knows, maybe in the future, I start going down the politics road here in my county/state...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What have the poor done to deserve our support?

lol – well, for starters, they’re poor.

Many are employed…

Many are disabled…

Many are children…

Many are elderly.

Consequently the rightist argument of ‘dependency’ is a fallacy.

 

[California Girl]

How many years have its opponents had to get the food stamp program ruled unconstitutional?

You tell me. I'm not against Food Stamps. I'm not against a Safety Net. The Focus should be using these programs transitionally, there needs to be a time when the Dependent learn skills and move to the next level. There should be some form of exchange. Community Service, Volunteer Work, whatever. Build Character, rather than knock it down.

And when military families qualify for food stamps, what then? Put them to work parttime?

Put them to work? Put them? No, but they can choose to. Lots of people do.

 

[The Rabbi]

"It is always true. People are paid what they are worth in general."

No, people are paid what they can get and "what they are worth" is as subject to opinion as is "hard work."
-------

"I dont know how you measure "hard". I think a CEO of a major company who is working 80 hrs a week and frequently loses his family over it works much harder than a guy on a union construction site who spends 7 hours a day watching someone else work."

Maybe, but whose pay is more appropriate for the work they do? Does anyone's work deserve multimillion dollar saleries plus multimillion dollar bonus + giltedged benifits and perks? I don't think so.

A CEO can save his company billions of dollars. Or it can expand sales and profits by billions. How much is that worth? I'd gladly pay someone $2M to increase my profits $50M.

 

[The Rabbi]

What have the poor done to deserve our support?

lol – well, for starters, they’re poor.

Many are employed…

Many are disabled…

Many are children…

Many are elderly.

Consequently the rightist argument of ‘dependency’ is a fallacy.

And many many more are perfectly able to work but simply choose not to. And that is probably the greater number.
But why do you think merely being poor should place a demand on everyone else for coerced funds?

 

[occupied]

What have the poor done to deserve our support?

By your phrase it seems that you think there is some fundamental difference between you and the poor.