What is Zionism?

[K9Buck]

Yeah, but few of them actually tried until Hitler started turning them into lampshades.

And your point is what? That people don't have basic human rights until half of them are killed in a genocide?

Well, one of your buddies the OP Zionist, has in fact argued that Jews have more rights to a land, and a homogenous society, because of Hitler's Holocaust.

The Jews are a small minority in the world. Israel was intended to be a Jewish state for the Jews. You're too fucking stupid and racist to understand this. That land that was appropriated to the Jews by the world community was a pittance, and still, anti-Semites like you went to war to try and kill every Jew in Israel.

If every Israeli Jew killed themselves and the land was taken over by the Palestinians, you'd be calling for American Jews to be rounded up and gassed.

How dare people fight against invaders, they must kiss the feet of those who steal their land... LOLOL

The bottom line is that you're a racist, a moron and a k*nt. I'm embarrassed to know that you live in my country. Go back to Poland and join the NeoNazis.

 

[Shusha]

I've not persecuted any Jews.
WTF?
Oh, boo hoo hoo, I'm vocal against Jews here, and there on the Internet.

per·se·cu·tion
ˌpərsəˈkyo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun

1. hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.
   
   synonyms: oppression, victimization, maltreatment, ill-treatment, mistreatment, abuse, ill-usage, discrimination

So, yeah. You have persecuted Jews.

 

[K9Buck]

Except it's the Palestinian's land, not some Europeans ..

Build a time machine and go back to 1948 and cry like a bitch to the United Nations. Maybe they'll agree with you. LOL.

Let me ask you a question. Why didn't the Goddamned Ottomans give the Palestinians a state prior the first world war when they had the chance?

 

[K9Buck]

I've not persecuted any Jews.
WTF?
Oh, boo hoo hoo, I'm vocal against Jews here, and there on the Internet.

per·se·cu·tion
ˌpərsəˈkyo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun

1. hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.
   
   synonyms: oppression, victimization, maltreatment, ill-treatment, mistreatment, abuse, ill-usage, discrimination

So, yeah. You have persecuted Jews.

Hardly, mostly just a critique of Israel, and the Jews.
If that critique might seem harsh, so be it.

Except that you are not objective, impartial nor reasonable. You simply are an anti-Semite.

 

[Roudy]

Well, one of your buddies the OP Zionist, has in fact argued that Jews have more rights to a land, and a homogenous society, because of Hitler's Holocaust.

The Jewish people have rights to the land for reasons which have nothing to do with the Shoah. The fact that the Shoah occurred, though, makes it all the more relevant and necessary for the Jewish people to have a safe and secure homeland.

The Jews were given a homeland... They just wanted more.

Jewish Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia

Yeah, look at those greedy Jews that have occupied so much of the Arab Muslim lands:

Yeah, well how much land would Israel tvke, had it not been for the fact that the World would turn on them if they did?

Not as much land Muslim and Christian invaders have?

 

[phaethon]

Zionism originally meant the gathering of all Jews into Palestine. It was an impractical project from the beginning, since Palestine cannot possibly hold all of them and is situated in an environment which lacks the prerequisites of furnishing a community. If it was pulled off successfully, that would have been the effective negation of the Jewish diaspora.

Today, it's used to describe the state of Israel's behavior towards Palestinians and how political occurrences are for Israel's benefit. The Right tend to focus so much on Zionism, Communism, and the Holocaust, they deviate greatly from Nazism's narrative and inquiry.

 

[Roudy]

The Jewish people have rights to the land for reasons which have nothing to do with the Shoah. The fact that the Shoah occurred, though, makes it all the more relevant and necessary for the Jewish people to have a safe and secure homeland.

The Jews were given a homeland... They just wanted more.

Jewish Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia

Yeah, look at those greedy Jews that have occupied so much of the Arab Muslim lands:

Yeah, well how much land would Israel tvke, had it not been for the fact that the World would turn on them if they did?

Not as much land Muslim and Christian invaders have?

Christian invaders, of where?

Don't act stupid, Christians invaded the Middle East, including the Jewish holy land, several times, followed by Arab / Muslim invasions.

 

[Roudy]

Zionism originally meant the gathering of all Jews into Palestine. It was an impractical project from the beginning, since Palestine cannot possibly hold all of them and is situated in an environment which lacks the prerequisites of furnishing a community. If it was pulled off successfully, that would have been the effective negation of the Jewish diaspora.

Today, it's used to describe the state of Israel's behavior towards Palestinians and how political occurrences are for Israel's benefit. The Right tend to focus so much on Zionism, Communism, and the Holocaust, they deviate greatly from Nazism's narrative and inquiry.

But the Jewish state HAS indeed been pulled off successfully. Israel is a highly advanced, prosperous, strong democracy. You are just upset that Arab IslamoNazis weren't able to destroy the Jewish state, despite the many failed unsuccessful attempts to do so.

 

[Roudy]

Yeah, look at those greedy Jews that have occupied so much of the Arab Muslim lands:

Yeah, well how much land would Israel tvke, had it not been for the fact that the World would turn on them if they did?

Not as much land Muslim and Christian invaders have?

Christian invaders, of where?

Don't act stupid, Christians invaded the Middle East, including the Jewish holy land, several times, followed by Arab / Muslim invasions.

As if Christianity didn't start in the "Jewish Holy land"
Hate to break it to you, but most of those Christians in the Mid-East were not invaders, but indigenous Levantines who became Christian.

Ha ha ha...that was a funny joke. Look up the many invasions by crusaders and other European invaders and then get back to us. Better yet, go get an education.

 

[JoeB131]

You are a poor student of history, and a worse student of religion.

I'm the best student of religion.

I'm an atheist.

Because if you really study religion, it QUICKLY becomes apparent it's all a lot of superstitious bullshit.

Silly is thinking there's a God who can create an entire universe, but only cares about your little tribe.

What IS a good source for policy? Are universally recognized human rights a good source?

quite right. So one person, one vote with a right for All Palestinians to return to Palestine. That would be universial human rights.

The Jews can stay, but they won't be in the majority.

 

[JoeB131]

And your point is what? That people don't have basic human rights until half of them are killed in a genocide?

no, they never have a right to steal someone else's land.

Now, if you wanted to give the Jews a chunk of Germany as a homeland, that would have been completely fair.

Stealing land from the Palestinians, though, that's just stupid.

When I hear that, I hear you saying that it Arab Palestinian land. That the land belongs only to a specific group of "Palestinians".

If we were to use the analogy of the US:

The First Nations peoples are not really Americans, because all the real Americans adopted the new culture and there is no proof that First Nations peoples really existed or had a history here

Here's the underlying problem with that argument. The First people suffered 90% casualties due to diseases brought from Europe before a lot of Europeans even showed up.

The fact is, these cultures DID disappear. No one would sensibly say, "Yup, we need to totally re-establish the Cherokee Federation".

 

[JoeB131]

They gladly gave up the Sinai in return for peace. Israel could have taken Damascus in 67' as well. Israel wants Israel and to have peace with everyone. Satan has been using guys like you to persecute the Jews since time began.

Wow. you think Satan is a thing.

that's adorable.

Okay, reality check, the Zionists gave up the Sinai because they realized it was indefensible. The Egyptians almost took it from them in 1973.

But the real stupidity is living in the middle of people who want to kill you. sorry, I just don't get that.

 

[JoeB131]

Build a time machine and go back to 1948 and cry like a bitch to the United Nations. Maybe they'll agree with you. LOL.

Naw, I'll just wait for the happy day when the Arabs push the Zionists into the sea.....

Let me ask you a question. Why didn't the Goddamned Ottomans give the Palestinians a state prior the first world war when they had the chance?

Why is that relevant to anything? The thing was, that land was not the Ottoman's or the British or the UN's land to to give away to start with.

You see, the thing was, at the End of WWI, the peace treaty called for "Self-Determination" of nations within the defeated Central Powers. The reality, of course, was that the British and French took advantage and tried to carve out and colonize the middle east for their own purposes.

 

[phaethon]

Zionism originally meant the gathering of all Jews into Palestine. It was an impractical project from the beginning, since Palestine cannot possibly hold all of them and is situated in an environment which lacks the prerequisites of furnishing a community. If it was pulled off successfully, that would have been the effective negation of the Jewish diaspora.

Today, it's used to describe the state of Israel's behavior towards Palestinians and how political occurrences are for Israel's benefit. The Right tend to focus so much on Zionism, Communism, and the Holocaust, they deviate greatly from Nazism's narrative and inquiry.

But the Jewish state HAS indeed been pulled off successfully. Israel is a highly advanced, prosperous, strong democracy.

You are just upset that Arab IslamoNazis weren't able to destroy the Jewish state, despite the many failed unsuccessful attempts to do so.

Now that you mention it, can it really be called the Jewish "state" if the Jews had been a subjected people for most of their history?

Julian, Against the Galileans

Look at Abraham: was he not an alien in a strange land? And Jacob: was he not a slave, first in Syria, then after that in Palestine, and in his old age in Egypt? Does not Moses say that he led them forth from the house of bondage out of Egypt "with a stretched out arm"? And after their sojourn in Palestine did they not change their fortunes more frequently than observers say the chameleon changes its colour, now subject to the judges, now enslaved to foreign races? And when they began to be governed by kings, – but let me for the present postpone asking how they were governed: for as the Scripture tells us, God did not willingly allow them to have kings, but only when constrained by them, and after protesting to them beforehand that they would thus be governed ill, – still they did at any rate inhabit their own country and tilled it for a little over three hundred years. After that they were enslaved first to the Assyrians, then to the Medes, later to the Persians, and now at last to ourselves.

Are you trying to make me out to be a Nazi apologist? If the Jewish people had been destroyed, then this world would most certainly expire in another way. Why is it that the Jews were often found throughout ruling powers (i.e. Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Rome)? The diaspora as a tragic inconvenience is a myth. As Celsus indicated, the Christians derived benefit from their diaspora. The same could be said for Jews.

 

[Roudy]

Zionism originally meant the gathering of all Jews into Palestine. It was an impractical project from the beginning, since Palestine cannot possibly hold all of them and is situated in an environment which lacks the prerequisites of furnishing a community. If it was pulled off successfully, that would have been the effective negation of the Jewish diaspora.

Today, it's used to describe the state of Israel's behavior towards Palestinians and how political occurrences are for Israel's benefit. The Right tend to focus so much on Zionism, Communism, and the Holocaust, they deviate greatly from Nazism's narrative and inquiry.

But the Jewish state HAS indeed been pulled off successfully. Israel is a highly advanced, prosperous, strong democracy.

You are just upset that Arab IslamoNazis weren't able to destroy the Jewish state, despite the many failed unsuccessful attempts to do so.

Now that you mention it, can it really be called the Jewish "state" if the Jews had been a subjected people for most of their history?

Julian, Against the Galileans

Look at Abraham: was he not an alien in a strange land? And Jacob: was he not a slave, first in Syria, then after that in Palestine, and in his old age in Egypt? Does not Moses say that he led them forth from the house of bondage out of Egypt "with a stretched out arm"? And after their sojourn in Palestine did they not change their fortunes more frequently than observers say the chameleon changes its colour, now subject to the judges, now enslaved to foreign races? And when they began to be governed by kings, – but let me for the present postpone asking how they were governed: for as the Scripture tells us, God did not willingly allow them to have kings, but only when constrained by them, and after protesting to them beforehand that they would thus be governed ill, – still they did at any rate inhabit their own country and tilled it for a little over three hundred years. After that they were enslaved first to the Assyrians, then to the Medes, later to the Persians, and now at last to ourselves.

Are you trying to make me out to be a Nazi apologist? If the Jewish people had been destroyed, then this world would most certainly expire in another way. Why is it that the Jews were often found throughout ruling powers (i.e. Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Rome)? The diaspora as a tragic inconvenience is a myth. As Celsus indicated, the Christians derived benefit from their diaspora. The same could be said for Jews.

Can it NOT be called a Jewish state? Can the Vatican be called Christian? Israel has been integral part of the Jewish faith, culture, and identity for the last four thousand years.

 

[rylah]

No one would sensibly say, "Yup, we need to totally re-establish the Cherokee Federation".

Tell me, does US tax the Cherokee an extra tax for being a Cherokee?
Does the US ban Cherokees from visiting the places of their heritage?
Do US, Canada and Mexico citizens target and massacre the Cherokee people today? Is there "anti-Cherokeeism" in the US?

Anyway You answer, I would support the Cherokee in their demands for the right of self determination (if they decide so), just like I'd support the Kurds, Yazidis and other indigenous people.
However the opportunities and the nature of liberty in the US, are nowhere to be compared to the Ottoman Empire and Arab Muslim rule. The condition of the Jews in Palestine under Ottoman Empire was dire, worse than in any Arab country. On the other hand the US is not Switzerland, but it still is looked upon as a land of opportunities. And rightfully so, because Americans do have a lot of available to them for a price so small most can't imagine to pay. Europeans too. You work less for more, much more than most of the world. The US is a great place for talent and effort.
Palestine was not such a place under the Ottomans, maybe for the Arabs, not the Jews.

 

[Shusha]

The fact is, these cultures DID disappear. No one would sensibly say, "Yup, we need to totally re-establish the Cherokee Federation".

Neither the Jewish people, nor the First Nations peoples have disappeared. Certainly not the the Cherokee who have a federally recognized self-government and more than 320,000 citizens. Certainly not the Jewish people, who have a State with millions of citizens.

Of course! I support the re-establishment of the Cherokee Nations. I also support the self-determination, self-government and sovereignty of other First Nations, of the Kurds, the Catalans, the Tibetans, the Basques, the Palestinians and any other peoples who seek it.

 

[JoeB131]

Tell me, does US tax the Cherokee an extra tax for being a Cherokee?
Does the US ban Cherokees from visiting the places of their heritage?
Do US, Canada and Mexico citizens target and massacre the Cherokee people today? Is there "anti-Cherokeeism" in the US?

Anyway You answer, I would support the Cherokee in their demands for the right of self determination (if they decide so), just like I'd support the Kurds, Yazidis and other indigenous people.
However the opportunities and the nature of liberty in the US, are nowhere to be compared to the Ottoman Empire and Arab Muslim rule. The condition of the Jews in Palestine under Ottoman Empire was dire, worse than in any Arab country. On the other hand the US is not Switzerland, but it still is looked upon as a land of opportunities. And rightfully so, because Americans do have a lot of available to them for a price so small most can't imagine to pay. Europeans too. You work less for more, much more than most of the world. The US is a great place for talent and effort.
Palestine was not such a place under the Ottomans, maybe for the Arabs, not the Jews.

Um, okay, you did hear about the "Trail of Tears", right?

Here's the thing. Cherokees don't use the Trail of Tears in order to rationalize every stupid thing they do. If only the Zionists could learn to start a conversation without "but, but, but... Hitler!"

 

[JoeB131]

Neither the Jewish people, nor the First Nations peoples have disappeared. Certainly not the the Cherokee who have a federally recognized self-government and more than 320,000 citizens. Certainly not the Jewish people, who have a State with millions of citizens.

Of course! I support the re-establishment of the Cherokee Nations. I also support the self-determination, self-government and sovereignty of other First Nations, of the Kurds, the Catalans, the Tibetans, the Basques, the Palestinians and any other peoples who seek it.

Well, I don't. I also don't support a Zionist entity that is based on the oppression of the Palestinian people, and has it's fucking hand in my pocket up to the Elbow.

 

[Shusha]

Neither the Jewish people, nor the First Nations peoples have disappeared. Certainly not the the Cherokee who have a federally recognized self-government and more than 320,000 citizens. Certainly not the Jewish people, who have a State with millions of citizens.

Of course! I support the re-establishment of the Cherokee Nations. I also support the self-determination, self-government and sovereignty of other First Nations, of the Kurds, the Catalans, the Tibetans, the Basques, the Palestinians and any other peoples who seek it.

Well, I don't. I also don't support a Zionist entity that is based on the oppression of the Palestinian people, and has it's fucking hand in my pocket up to the Elbow.

So you don't mind the oppression of the Cherokee people but get all upset about the oppression of the Palestinian people? Huh. Why is that?