When everyone wore a gun.....1870s!

[healthmyths]

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides.
This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.

In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics as shown in Table 6,
shows the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east and our home town:

Chicago - Obama's home town..516 HOMICIDES IN CHICAGO AS OF Dec. 16, 2012 most from guns!
DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York – 496 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore – 282 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)
San Antonio - 122 Murders (9.3 per 100,000 residents)


It doesn’t take an advanced degree in statistics to see that a return to “wild west” levels of violent crime would be a huge improvement for the residents of these cities.
Death Toll in the Old West from firearms vs the unarmed East!

As with Dodge City, the excitement in the Old West in general has been much overstated. All the big cattle towns of Kansas combined saw a total of 45 murders during the period of 1870-1885. Dodge City alone saw 15 people die violently from 1876–1885—an average of 1.5 per year. Deadwood, South Dakota and Tombstone, Arizona (home of the O.K. Corral), during their worst years of violence saw four and five murders respectively. Vigilante violence appears to not have been much worse.

According to Dykstra and Richard M. Brown, while the Kansas code gave mayors the power to call a vigilante group from all the men in the town who ranged in ages from 18–50, it seems, at least in Kansas, that it was rarely done. In a span of 38 years, Kansas had only 19 vigilante movements that accounted for 18 deaths. In addition, between 1876 and 1886, no one was lynched or hanged illegally in Dodge City.
The American West: A Heritage of Peace - Ryan McMaken - Mises Daily

That's a bit disingenuous to compare major urban cities of the 21st century with tiny, rural towns on the 19th century. Of COURSE you'll find more murders today and it has nothing to do with gun control.

Let's compare those cities you cited from back then with today:

Wichita, KS---In 1870, when the city was incorporated, the population was 600. Today, it's about 400,000. In 2010, they recorded 16 murders. 25 in '09 and 30 in '08. As you can see, the murder rate has fallen considerably in just 2 years.

Dodge City, Ks--Population 28,000. There were no murders in Abilene in 2010, 3 in 2008 and 2 in 2007. 2009 was unavailable.

Ellsworth, KS--Population 3100. They have not had a murder since 2002.

Abilene, KS--Population 6800. They did not record a murder in '08,'09 or 2010.

Caldwell, KS--Population just over 1000. They have not recorded a murder in at least 10 years.

Now...what was that case you were trying to make?

A) Abilene TX population 117,063 according to the 2010 Murder and Manslaughter 4

B) FYI... Chicago,DC,NY,Baltimore,Newark, ARE NOT considered part of the Wild West..But are cities with the strictest gun control laws today!

C) Not ONE of the murders in Chicago,DC,NY,Baltimore,Newark, were because the GUN went off BY ITSELF... I know that seems to be evident..
But that is a FACT. A person had to break the laws to get a gun, break the laws to fire a gun and break laws in killing someone!
A Person did it... NOT the gun!

D) Another cliche but still IS true... "outlaw guns and only outlaws have the guns"!

It is NOT MORE GUN laws, it is how can mentally ill people potential mass murderers be identified and eliminated!
That's what should happen!

 

[Political Junky]

The GOP continues to re-write history.

 

[JakeStarkey]

CrackedInDaHeadHealth myths was talking about the Wild West with figures that are all fabricated and now is talking about 2010.

Crazy dude.

 

[asaratis]

Unfortunately, liberals cannot fathom this argument.

Liberals believe ( and cannot be convinced otherwise...) that:

(a) higher tax rates will always bring in more revenue

(b) if guns are made illegal, criminals will not have guns



Liberals are sooooooo dumb...it hurts to think about it!

Gee.....thinking is painful, for Teabaggers.

Whatta revelation!

I am not a tea bagger, you goofball!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Asaritis engages in the simplistic thinking of accusing others of simplistic thinking. Typical libertarian nonsense, mmm.

 

[rdean]

When everyone wore a gun, bullies were in charge. It's why the law claimed the old West.

And the bullies claimed the schools.

That doesn't even make sense. Bullies are the ones who want to teach "magical creation".

 

[Dick Tuck]

A crime puzzle: Violent crime declines in America « The Berkeley Blog

 

[asaratis]

Unfortunately, liberals cannot fathom this argument.

Liberals believe ( and cannot be convinced otherwise...) that:

(a) higher tax rates will always bring in more revenue

(b) if guns are made illegal, criminals will not have guns



Liberals are sooooooo dumb...it hurts to think about it!

If you really believe what you post you may be dumber than Stephanie, CrusaderFrank and Willow tree (among others).

You have trouble with reality, don't you?

 

[asaratis]

Asaritis engages in the simplistic thinking of accusing others of simplistic thinking. Typical libertarian nonsense, mmm.

I am not a libertarian either, you goofball.

The fact that I am able to express the liberal thought process in simplistic form is a direct result of the simplicity of the liberal mindset.

 

[westwall]

The population was what? How many cops were there?

When the herds came to town the population would climb to over 20,000 and there were around 6-8 marshals for the whole town. Add to that lots of liquor and pent up frustration from eating dust for over a month along with all of the ahrdships and you have the making of a nice little powder keg of violence.

But, for the most part it was not.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Remind me. How many people had automatic or semiautomatic weapons with high capacity clips in the 1870s?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDZc81Birdw]THE RIFLEMAN TV SHOW / SERIES THEME MUSIC - 1958 to 1963 - YouTube[/ame]

Just LUCAS-BOY!!!!​

 

[westwall]

When everyone wore a gun, bullies were in charge. It's why the law claimed the old West.

And the bullies claimed the schools.

That doesn't even make sense. Bullies are the ones who want to teach "magical creation".

What about those "enlightened" ones of yours who want to imprison anyone who is a sceptic of AGW? How about all those calls to kill sceptics? Look in the mirror derp.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

If reality existed at 24 frames per second, these nutters might really have a line on utopia.

Every man carries but never shoots anyone.
Doctors perform surgey and accept a chicken as payment.
Opie and the Beav without a care in the world.

Welllllllllllllllllll.....that's not necessarily true......


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9dKYxkYYXM]Leave it to Beaver 25th Anniversary Party - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides.
This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.

In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics as shown in Table 6,
shows the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east and our home town:

Chicago - Obama's home town..516 HOMICIDES IN CHICAGO AS OF Dec. 16, 2012 most from guns!
DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York – 496 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore – 282 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)
San Antonio - 122 Murders (9.3 per 100,000 residents)


It doesn’t take an advanced degree in statistics to see that a return to “wild west” levels of violent crime would be a huge improvement for the residents of these cities.
Death Toll in the Old West from firearms vs the unarmed East!

As with Dodge City, the excitement in the Old West in general has been much overstated. All the big cattle towns of Kansas combined saw a total of 45 murders during the period of 1870-1885. Dodge City alone saw 15 people die violently from 1876–1885—an average of 1.5 per year. Deadwood, South Dakota and Tombstone, Arizona (home of the O.K. Corral), during their worst years of violence saw four and five murders respectively. Vigilante violence appears to not have been much worse.

According to Dykstra and Richard M. Brown, while the Kansas code gave mayors the power to call a vigilante group from all the men in the town who ranged in ages from 18–50, it seems, at least in Kansas, that it was rarely done. In a span of 38 years, Kansas had only 19 vigilante movements that accounted for 18 deaths. In addition, between 1876 and 1886, no one was lynched or hanged illegally in Dodge City.
The American West: A Heritage of Peace - Ryan McMaken - Mises Daily

Seriously?

There were first..a heck of alot less people. There were almost no police. Or ways to report homicides.

....Back when genocide was more-acceptable.....

The "Battle" of Sand Creek

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Gun defense happens all the time but it rarely makes the headlines of the PC media. Democrats would rather have someone arrested for shooting the bad guy, especially if he was black & shooter was white. Most self defense by gun goes unreported because the shooter or person brandishing the firearm is afraid they will be in trouble by police.

Using data from a survey of detainees in a Washington D.C. jail, they worked with a prison physician to investigate the circumstances of gunshot wounds to these criminals. It was found that one in four of these detainees had been wounded, in events that appear unrelated to their incarceration. Most were shot when they were involved in other unreported robberies, assaults and crossfires. Virtually none report being wounded by a "law-abiding citizen." Go figure! They always try to pin it on the shooter even if they are in the right. Everyone knows this & will not report shooting criminals.

Here is just a small sample of actual reported Gun Defense over the past month:

11/30/2012 - An 81 year old man from Detroit was woke to the sounds of a brick shattering his glass door. He reached for his .22 Pistol and fired at the intruder three times. The intruder fled the scene. The 81 year old was unharmed.

11/21/2012 - Clemon Ferguson and Jeremy Pierce knocked on the locked door of Milwaukee hair salon "Hair Fantasies", and were let in by a customer. One of the men drew a gun and pointed it at the customer in the salon. The customer knocked the suspects arm away, and a shot was fired. The customer then drew his own gun, shooting both men. Ferguson died at the scene, and Pierce was wounded. Pierce later went to the police claiming he was shot when someone tried to mug him, but later admitted that story was false.

11/15/2012 - A woman was walking with her 6 year old son near Lake Sacajawea, when a man approached them and began masturbating in front of them, while encouraging the woman and child to watch. The woman brandished her handgun, causing the man to run away.

10/25/2012 - Three armed men broke into a home near UCF, Orlando, FL the homeowner confronted the men pulling out his own weapon and shooting one of the invaders several times. The two other men escaped through a second story window.

10/17/2012 - The 12 year old Kendra StClair was at home alone, when an unknown man (later identified as 32 year old Stacey Jones) rang the doorbell. The girl did not answer, and the Jones went to the back door of the home and kicked in the door. The girl called her mother, Debra StClair, who told her to get the family gun, hide in a closet, and call 911. The girl was on the phone with 911 as Jones went through the house, and when he began to open the closet, the girl shot him through the closet door. Jones ran away from the house and was found by the police and taken to the hospital. He was later charged with 1st Degree Burglary. Jones had previously been arrested for kidnapping an 18 year old mentally disabled girl.

That one line is so true. If someone defends themselves from say a robbery on the street by pulling their weapon, they aren't about to call the cops and be questioned.

Why?

The sad fact today is that the police often are not your friends even when you're right. They seem to have knack for making the victim the criminal...or so it often appears.

...'Lessin theys White.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Remind me. How many people had automatic or semiautomatic weapons with high capacity clips in the 1870s?

How many people had guns in the Stone Age? What the hell??????​

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

When everyone wore a gun, bullies were in charge.

....And, not much has changed, since....

Try to control yourself, ladies.....​

 

[regent]

I wonder what the real wild west was like, was it like the movie wild west? Did they all the walk around with guns ready to be drawn, were all the women beautiful blondes, except the old bitties losing their ranch to Kinkaid? Did anyone work in the west or just walk in and out of saloons looking for trouble. One of the beauties of the old west is that you knew immediatlely that that Kinkaid fellow was bad news. He was the one in the black hat and the ugly mustache. But not to fear cause soon riding into town would be the Duke. The Duke ready to clean up the town mess and then ride on. Today the Duke would be one of the 47 percenters no job etc.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That you do express your drivel simplistically, is clear.

Asaritis engages in the simplistic thinking of accusing others of simplistic thinking. Typical libertarian nonsense, mmm.

I am not a libertarian either, you goofball.

The fact that I am able to express the liberal thought process in simplistic form is a direct result of the simplicity of the liberal mindset.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The idea that men were permitted to just walk around any western town in 1870 with a gun strapped to their hip is a matter of controversy. Checking guns at the Sherriff's office was a common requirement for visitors to certain towns or communities.

Also...a Colt 45 would cost the equivalent of about $1300 back then. Not every patriot had that kind of scratch.

Oh....the good ol' days!

A very unpleasant moment as I have to almost agree with LL. I'd add that justice in the earlier 1800's often was on the spot.

.....And, not always that accurate.....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDfzCzdjcs]The Ox-Bow Incident (trailer) - YouTube[/ame]

The Ox-Bow Incident