Where Can I Get The Education?

[Ringel05]

Those who can do, those who can't, teach.

Wise words.

Talk to a farmer.

Okay. And my option precludes that?

 

[progressive hunter]

Steam jacketed kettle and hood alone are going to eat up 40 amps of the 60 max for a trailer. No AC yet or sterilization of glass or Sally port for the produce or even a grease trap...and those things are also needed. Then there's the permits for the wastewater and freshwater usage. All needed for a canning operation...
Then there's the USDA parking spot because he takes his own samples while I am in scheduled production...i schedule it with his office. Cant produce without the schedule.

This isn't a simple process...its multifaceted and complicated to sell across state lines to wholesale distributors.

I am talking about custom building a trailer not using one as is,,

are you wanting to start out in competition of smuckers or as a small start up??

if youre going to compete with smuckers forget it,, they already have you beat,, I'm talking about a small start up,,

I think youre trying to talk yourself out of doing it,,

 

[JohnDB]

I am talking about custom building a trailer not using one as is,,

are you wanting to start out in competition of smuckers or as a small start up??

if youre going to compete with smuckers forget it,, they already have you beat,, I'm talking about a small start up,,

I think youre trying to talk yourself out of doing it,,

No...
Just trying to make a trailer work. NFPA codes say that a trailer can't have more than 60 amps at 240 volts. That's the max.
Its going to have to be a regular building... probably will go with a steel one with insulated panels for walls because of the reduced cost...it's easier to put up once the underground is in...which includes the notorious grease trap even though there won't be any grease. The sallyports and etc are just walls and doors with controls and filters take care of a lot...so does the sanitation company. Then it's just a matter of housekeeping. $50K is enough to get er done right. (Especially if you own the land).

But it's easier to just show up to an already approved FDA kitchen with your specialty fruits and recipes and let them do it all. It's not like those places don't exist already.

But with the labor shortages they might be in trouble too at the moment.

 

[progressive hunter]

No...
Just trying to make a trailer work. NFPA codes say that a trailer can't have more than 60 amps at 240 volts. That's the max.
Its going to have to be a regular building... probably will go with a steel one with insulated panels for walls because of the reduced cost...it's easier to put up once the underground is in...which includes the notorious grease trap even though there won't be any grease. The sallyports and etc are just walls and doors with controls and filters take care of a lot...so does the sanitation company. Then it's just a matter of housekeeping. $50K is enough to get er done right. (Especially if you own the land).

But it's easier to just show up to an already approved FDA kitchen with your specialty fruits and recipes and let them do it all. It's not like those places don't exist already.

But with the labor shortages they might be in trouble too at the moment.

youve jumped from wanting to learn how to farm to being a national bottling plant for jelly,, sorry cant help you there,,

now if you wanted to build a business from the ground up my plan is more than workable,,

 

[JohnDB]

youve jumped from wanting to learn how to farm to being a national bottling plant for jelly,, sorry cant help you there,,

now if you wanted to build a business from the ground up my plan is more than workable,,

Right...it's the actual working model for a successful small farm...

Your plan would result in my incarceration.

You can't just flout the laws the way you are describing.

 

[Rigby5]

Steam jacketed kettle and hood alone are going to eat up 40 amps of the 60 max for a trailer. No AC yet or sterilization of glass or Sally port for the produce or even a grease trap...and those things are also needed. Then there's the permits for the wastewater and freshwater usage. All needed for a canning operation...
Then there's the USDA parking spot because he takes his own samples while I am in scheduled production...i schedule it with his office. Cant produce without the schedule.

This isn't a simple process...its multifaceted and complicated to sell across state lines to wholesale distributors.

That is silly.
Trailers are NOT limited to 60 amps max, in any way.
You just would not want to use the built in circuit box is you were doing a commercial operation, but would add in a whole additional circuit box.
Grease traps are simple and irrelevant, since you are not intending to deep fry anything.
Water requires no permits at all.
You run your own well and septic.
I am not an expert on USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service, but I am pretty sure it only applies to meat, dairy, and egg products.

 

[JohnDB]

youve jumped from wanting to learn how to farm to being a national bottling plant for jelly,, sorry cant help you there,,

now if you wanted to build a business from the ground up my plan is more than workable,,

Once I have the fruit I'm actually quite competent and knowledgeable about all the things necessary to do and the business model.

To me, getting the fruit is the hard part..

I can drive a tractor...that's easy enough. But a tractor isn't exactly a mode of transportation...it's a tool. All the hydraulics and then the spinny thing on the back and the data and exactly what tractor I actually need vs the ones out there for sale...

Then some have implements on the front...or not...some might not have that capability. There are boom lifts and articulating boom lifts...both do different things and both have widely varying maintenance. But both are lifts.

 

[Rigby5]

Right...it's the actual working model for a successful small farm...

Your plan would result in my incarceration.

You can't just flout the laws the way you are describing.

Yes you can ignore any laws for normal farming.
There are almost no laws, inspections, requirements, etc., because it is a pre-existing means of survival for much of the country.
That is different from meeting requirements for getting your finished products into grocery stores youself.
That is entirely different from "farming".

 

[Rigby5]

Once I have the fruit I'm actually quite competent and knowledgeable about all the things necessary to do and the business model.

To me, getting the fruit is the hard part..

I can drive a tractor...that's easy enough. But a tractor isn't exactly a mode of transportation...it's a tool. All the hydraulics and then the spinny thing on the back and the data and exactly what tractor I actually need vs the ones out there for sale...

Then some have implements on the front...or not...some might not have that capability. There are boom lifts and articulating boom lifts...both do different things and both have widely varying maintenance. But both are lifts.

If you are doing fruit, you do NOT need a tractor at all.
Tractors are mostly necessary to plow and plant, and with fruit, they are usually perennials that need nothing a tractor can do.

 

[progressive hunter]

Right...it's the actual working model for a successful small farm...

Your plan would result in my incarceration.

You can't just flout the laws the way you are describing.

show me one law I flouted??

a farm grows food not produce products for direct sale,, thats an after business,,

 

[JohnDB]

If you are doing fruit, you do NOT need a tractor at all.
Tractors are mostly necessary to plow and plant, and with fruit, they are usually perennials that need nothing a tractor can do.

From what I already know is that trees require spraying several times and fertilizer and pruning...I don't think that a quad bike or 4wheel drive truck would do that...

Then there's the hauling of the tubs of fruit out of the orchard...how I get it picked is still a guess. Ladders and pickers? Articulated boom lifts and pickers ? Some sort of mechanical harvester?
Again I don't know...

I know that trees break and need support when loaded. Chainsaws and dragging around limbs... planting new trees is usually done with a big screw like what is used for telephone poles or light poles but much wider and not as deep. But the trunk of the old one needs to be removed. That all sounds like tractor work. I've seen landscapers use something to do some of this.

 

[JohnDB]

show me one law I flouted??

a farm grows food not produce products for direct sale,, thats an after business,,

The trailer concept? That would get me incarcerated...I don't care what a small butcher in Europe does...here in the US we have the USDA that is extremely particular about food processing. Those in defiance get to be poor very quickly.

 

[progressive hunter]

The trailer concept? That would get me incarcerated...I don't care what a small butcher in Europe does...here in the US we have the USDA that is extremely particular about food processing. Those in defiance get to be poor very quickly.

you forgot to show me the law to back that up,,

and I think youre confusing a trailer for living in with a production trailer,,

what you want to do people have been doing in their garage and barns for decades,, not seeing how a trailer specially built to USDA standards would be any different,,

 

[JohnDB]

show me one law I flouted??

a farm grows food not produce products for direct sale,, thats an after business,,

And most farms are going broke because it isn't field to table like the big boys do...which is how they are surviving. They control all aspects. They rent the farms by contracting for the fruit then they own the initial processing...
Then that product is shipped to where it is processed more into jars. And they usually own a significant portion of the glass manufacturer.

Conagra and Monsanto are notorious for doing this in many aspects of food production from seed to fertilizer to the meat with a local brand label on it...but those two are the major portion of food in America.

 

[progressive hunter]

And most farms are going broke because it isn't field to table like the big boys do...which is how they are surviving. They control all aspects. They rent the farms by contracting for the fruit then they own the initial processing...
Then that product is shipped to where it is processed more into jars. And they usually own a significant portion of the glass manufacturer.

Conagra and Monsanto are notorious for doing this in many aspects of food production from seed to fertilizer to the meat with a local brand label on it...but those two are the major portion of food in America.

how much ,money do you have on hand to start this business youre wanting to start??
better be a cpl million from the sounds of your dreams,,

 

[JohnDB]

you forgot to show me the law to back that up,,

and I think youre confusing a trailer for living in with a production trailer,,

what you want to do people have been doing in their garage and barns for decades,, not seeing how a trailer specially built to USDA standards would be any different,,

An out building is different than a trailer by the standards of the NFPA... different codes apply. And there are ways to pump a lot of electricity into an outbuilding vs a mobile trailer that produces something. Those wheels and potential wheels are the thing.

Not to mention the water usage and sewage. Again more issues with the local health department.

 

[progressive hunter]

An out building is different than a trailer by the standards of the NFPA... different codes apply. And there are ways to pump a lot of electricity into an outbuilding vs a mobile trailer that produces something. Those wheels and potential wheels are the thing.

Not to mention the water usage and sewage. Again more issues with the local health department.

all that depends on your goals,, yours seem to be to take on the big guys,,

my suggestion if thats so is to just give up now cause its a waste of money,,

 

[Rigby5]

Okay. And my option precludes that?

The point is schools tend to be for certification instead of practical.
Better to just hire on a real farm to learn the ropes.

 

[JohnDB]

how much ,money do you have on hand to start this business youre wanting to start??
better be a cpl million from the sounds of your dreams,,

Nope...
Because you keep talking and apparently know nothing because you have yet to listen to anything.
I got the canning and bottling under control...to me, that part is easy. I just need to ignore everything you say on that subject. You would definitely get me in ten tons of trouble and should get me buried under the prison for all the people who died from such abhorrent practices.

The farming aspect is where I don't know what I am doing. I've never farmed before for profit. Grown a garden? Yes.
But farming for profit and production is different. It's not the same as anything I've done before.
And a lot of money can be wasted in a hurry doing it... buying the wrong pesticides, fertilizers, tractors, even land. Wrong trees or seedlings. Or too many....or not enough... maybe I plant them too close or too far apart...all has to be done efficiently and effectively.

 

[Rigby5]

From what I already know is that trees require spraying several times and fertilizer and pruning...I don't think that a quad bike or 4wheel drive truck would do that...

Then there's the hauling of the tubs of fruit out of the orchard...how I get it picked is still a guess. Ladders and pickers? Articulated boom lifts and pickers ? Some sort of mechanical harvester?
Again I don't know...

I know that trees break and need support when loaded. Chainsaws and dragging around limbs... planting new trees is usually done with a big screw like what is used for telephone poles or light poles but much wider and not as deep. But the trunk of the old one needs to be removed. That all sounds like tractor work. I've seen landscapers use something to do some of this.

YES, a jeep, quad bike or almost ANYTHING is better than a tractor for spraying or fertilizing, and pruning is totally done by hand, walking.
Tractors are big, and you want something as small as possible.

Boom trucks are way too expensive.
You use ladders.
Most fruit need to be hand picked.
They not only are fragile, but have to be evaluated before picking, for ripeness. Its not like veggies that all are ripe at the same time.

And no, none of the planting is tractor work.
Nor is planting something you do often.
Once in a lifetime, for something like apples.