Who honestly doesn't belive in intelligent design?

[JBeukema]

Anyone who stands there and tells me that plants existed before the sun and expects to be taken seriously is retarded.

 

[Si modo]

Either

a) You didn't read my post

or

b) You read it and did just what I said. Willfully disregarded everything I said.

Ohhhhhhh. I just love false dichotomies!

You dodge questions quite well.

If you actually posed a question when you presented your false dichotomy, I may actually have dodged something. How dishonest of you to suggest that you have.

How does being so dishonest sit with being so pious?

 

[germanguy]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QrGAJJ2sSc[/ame]

Nuff said
ze germanguy

 

[edthecynic]

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness

Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.

Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.

Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?

And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.

And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.

But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.

The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.

The first problem with your "logic" is if some thing must light the fuse you have eliminated God from the equation because God is not a thing.

Science,of course, says GRAVITY lit the fuse, but gravity is not an "intelligent" force so believers reject it without thought even though you admit a FORCE is responsible for the motion.

And finally, your stupid vacuum cleaner example shows a complete lack of understanding of chemistry and physics! Unlike a vacuum cleaner part, atoms and molecules are quite able to assemble themselves into more complex structures. And they don't form random structures either. Only specific structures are formed naturally according to the number of electrons in the outer shell called valence electrons. And guess what, all life is made up ONLY from these natural molecules, there are no "designer" molecules at all.

 

[antagon]

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness

Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.

Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.

Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?

this is the frailty of faith which i think fundamentalists and ID advocates betray with their obstinacy to science.

 

[MaggieMae]

How can anyone not believe that information cannot come from nothing?

How can anyone belive that life came from a bubbling bath of chemicals and random chance when we know that it is impossible?

We don't know where the Mother Ship comes from. Some AI could well have been the designer of earthlings.

 

[MaggieMae]

Well...

When a man and woman really love each other they create.


I'm wondering why there isn't an option of Reproduction.

Is there "love" in cloning?

 

[marksinvirginia]

If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing. This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.

So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.

Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!

~Mark

 

[THE LIGHT]

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness

Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.

Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.

Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?

And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.

And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.

But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.

The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.

The first problem with your "logic" is if some thing must light the fuse you have eliminated God from the equation because God is not a thing.

Yes, if you want to play word games. However, if you want to talk science, we know that other dimensions do exist beyond those that we can perceive.

Science,of course, says GRAVITY lit the fuse, but gravity is not an "intelligent" force so believers reject it without thought even though you admit a FORCE is responsible for the motion.

Science says? Hmmm... were we there to observe this??? has it been reproduced???

Didn't think so.

Stephen Hawking says....

That's more like it.

Where did gravity come from? and how does gravity act on nothing?

And finally, your stupid vacuum cleaner example shows a complete lack of understanding of chemistry and physics! Unlike a vacuum cleaner part, atoms and molecules are quite able to assemble themselves into more complex structures. And they don't form random structures either. Only specific structures are formed naturally according to the number of electrons in the outer shell called valence electrons. And guess what, all life is made up ONLY from these natural molecules, there are no "designer" molecules at all.

Your explanation does nothing to reconcile the origin of life. Yes, atoms are quite able to assemble themselves into complex structures, however, these complex structures are limited.

The complex code needed for life is neither random nor repetitive therefore the laws dictating chemical bonding in no wise are able to explain the origin of life.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Anyone who stands there and tells me that plants existed before the sun and expects to be taken seriously is retarded.

Plants can't survive one night???

 

[THE LIGHT]

Who honestly doesn't belive in intelligent design?

Who believes in Darwinian evolutionism?

 

[westwall]

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness

Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.

Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.

Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?

And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.

And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.

But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.

The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.

Well said!

 

[westwall]

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness

Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.

Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.

There's a misconception that all opinions and ideas are equal. They're not. While both of the ideas you gave may have some "element" of faith, ONE of those ideas has physical observable ongoing EVIDENCE that supports it. The other does not.

Prove to us how the entire observable universe erupted from a dot the size of half an atom.

 

[westwall]

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness

Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.

Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.

Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?

And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.

And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.

But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.

The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.

The first problem with your "logic" is if some thing must light the fuse you have eliminated God from the equation because God is not a thing.

Science,of course, says GRAVITY lit the fuse, but gravity is not an "intelligent" force so believers reject it without thought even though you admit a FORCE is responsible for the motion.

And finally, your stupid vacuum cleaner example shows a complete lack of understanding of chemistry and physics! Unlike a vacuum cleaner part, atoms and molecules are quite able to assemble themselves into more complex structures. And they don't form random structures either. Only specific structures are formed naturally according to the number of electrons in the outer shell called valence electrons. And guess what, all life is made up ONLY from these natural molecules, there are no "designer" molecules at all.

You need to read some more books (or maybe your first?) on cosmology. So far no one KNOWS what lit the fuse.

 

[edthecynic]

If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing. This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.

So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.

Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!

~Mark

Where did gravity come from? and how does gravity act on nothing?

The only "as some claim" who say everything came from nothing are Creationists!

In science there is no such thing as nothing!!! According to the First Law of Thermodynamics, Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, therefore there always was and always will be energy in the exact same total quantity. Only its form will change.

 

[konradv]

If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing. This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.

So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.

Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!

~Mark

That's a straw man argument, mark. Who are these "some" and why are you only using their words? It must be a very small percentage of scientists, because I've NEVER heard that stated. Most cosmologists say that all energy and matter emerged from a singularity. That's NOT nothing, rather it's EVERYTHING. Given that, it seems it's your argument that's reduced to absurdity. Also, why assume all that believe in the Big Bang are atheists? Perhaps that singularity IS God.

 

[JBeukema]

If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing.

Fail.

This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.

fail

So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.

fail

Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!

Nope, just stupidity on display

 

[JBeukema]

Who honestly doesn't belive in intelligent design?

Who believes in Darwinian evolutionism?

:yawn:

Who believes in Jesus?

 

[JBeukema]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/elegant-universe-einstein.html

 

[konradv]

And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.

That's ludicrous, since there are no laws of nature that would predict that that would ever happen. There are, however, chemical laws that allow for the formation of some bonds and chemicals over others that eventually would lead to macromolecules and all the complexity of life we see today.