Why aren't theists considered mentally ill?

[Western Man]

a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue.

Okay, I'll bite; firstly, this is a very pathetic slight against theists via an ad hominem attack based on your version of truth.

Moreover, why do you care enough to slander a multitude of people because they haven't attained a sufficient level of understanding that compliments your own.

Faith based theism is not scientifically testable, but feelings and emotions although capable of altering brain activity are not measurable and tangible and quantitative. But they exist.

Lastly, if a particular religion inspires followers to do good deeds and atone for transgressions, how does that negatively impact our world? And if it provides solace to someone who cannot discover peace on his own, then doesn't it have a genuine purpose?

Don't forget science may someday prove the existence of God, not disprove.

"There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists, only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." - Max Planck, Nobel Physicist

Also, I hope you didn't expect to accomplish anything with your asinine assertion that theists are delusional.

 

[flacaltenn]

Nope.. Gotz nothing to do with Urban/Rural statistics. Other than the one VERY SMALL SECT that maintains this practice is located in about 4 cities. ...

Funny thing about the U.S.Ultra-Orthodox communities, at least according to the Pew Research Center, is that they have a 4.1 children born per adult ratio, as compared to the 1.9 ratio of Jews overall.

Which probably goes a long way towards explaining articles like this.

Haredi Orthodox account for bulk of Jewish population growth in New York City
by Gil Shefler, JTA [...]January 22, 2013 | 9:33 am [...]

6% of 6.4 million is 384,000 people, and the group is growing (not shrinking) at more than double the rate of all other groups in American Jewry, Flacs. If, as your article stated, "many in the haredi Orthodox community still adhere to the rite", that means way too many infants are still being subjected to the dangerous circumcision ritual on a regular basis.

...If a professor of Talmudic Law and BioEthics at Yeshiva says it's MARGINAL (closeted) rare and primitive nonsense, they you haters are gonna have to find something else to whine about --- aren't you? ...

You're misrepresenting what Professor Tendler said. He called it "primitive nonsense" and stated his view that it's a matter of custom not religion.

It was the article that stated the ritual "is not used in most Jewish circumcision ceremonies", prior to conceding that "many in the haredi Orthodox community still adhere to the rite". So, however rare you think it is, it's not rare enough in the United States.

...It's about as rare in Judaism as snake handling is in Christianity. ...

In what universe does an estimated "125 tiny churches tucked away in rural Appalachia" amount to 6-9% of all Christians in the United States?

Besides, several states have passed laws against the practice of snake-handling, in spite of its relgious significance to those 125 tiny congregations, so maybe it's time to focus on the dangerous rituals of some significantly larger congregations.

They endanger no one but themselves. And now in their largest community, the family is required to sign a waiver and acknowledge the risk. 320,000 -- who live in all of FOUR cities, is not a threat in any way to your well-being because of ONE of their ritual practices.

The professor I quoted is not any Rabbi. He is on faculty at the MOST prestigious Jewish University in the USA. AND a specialist in Talmud and Bioethnics. If a Yeshica University Rabbi Tendler says it's "primitive nonsense" and not Jewish religion.. I'll go with that.

You are worrying about the strangest things. We know why you're escalating this to a code red ABOVE the risk of crime and communicable diseases from UNCONTROLLED immigration of MILLIONS at our Southern border.. Or maybe the death toll from abortions.

Guess you missed the point where this Haredi group was IN DECLINE for 10 or 20 years in the US. But have it. You've got your priorities...

 

[flacaltenn]

Eventually, those types of practices will be relegated to history.

The Jews apparently have enough political clout in many nations to continue to get away it. Shit happens.

One day, probably sooner than later, the practice will most likely fade for marketing reasons, starting in the West.

Welcome to the 21st Century.​

Yeah, those Jews are getting away with it.

If only you could come up with some final solution, eh Joe?

As I state in my posts, it's not my call one way or the other.

The Jews have enough political clout in this here and now in any neighborhood that I give a shit about for me to find that particular crusade unpalatable under any circumstances, and I'm way past being liberal enough to feel like I should wait for victims to come forward and bitch about the experience before considering it to be a public, political issue.

Just what experiences are these victims gonna be bitching about Joe?

 

[Capstone]

They endanger no one but themselves. ...

Yeah, nearly in the same way the snake-handlers and other tiny evangelical sects that promote faith-healing over medical treatment endanger no one but themselves and their innocent children -- the two main differences being that criminal laws have either been written or applied to the practitioners of those truly small groups (resulting in a number of convictions, BTW) and that the Haredim comprise a MUCH larger portion of American Judaism than all those crazy Christian sects combined comprise of Christianity.

...And now in their largest community, the family is required to sign a waiver and acknowledge the risk. ...

My, what an effective means of stopping zealots from endangering their babies!

...320,000 -- who live in all of FOUR cities, is not a threat in any way to your well-being because of ONE of their ritual practices.

I suppose that might be pertinent, if it were my well-being I've been advocating for in this thread.

The professor I quoted is not any Rabbi. He is on faculty at the MOST prestigious Jewish University in the USA. AND a specialist in Talmud and Bioethnics. If a Yeshica University Rabbi Tendler says it's "primitive nonsense" and not Jewish religion.. I'll go with that....

With no disrespect intended toward the man, he's also a leading figure in the so-called Modern Orthodox Movement, which makes him Judaism's version of a heretic in the eyes of most Orthodox/Ultra-Orthodox Jews (you know, the ones with the beliefs you've tried to paint as "marginal"). In their collective view, some of his beliefs are far worse than marginal.

...You are worrying about the strangest things. ...

What's so strange about pointing out an archaic religious ritual that's been proven deadly (not just dangerous) on numerous occasions, in the context of my discussion with AVG-JOE; which, as you may or may not recall, involved the prospective criteria for determining which faith-based 'behaviors' might call for state intervention?!

...We know why you're escalating this to a code red ABOVE the risk of crime and communicable diseases from UNCONTROLLED immigration of MILLIONS at our Southern border.. Or maybe the death toll from abortions.

Exactly how are the issues of immigration and abortion relevant to the matter of faith-based behaviors that might call for state intervention? -- Is a moderator really suggesting that I should go off-topic?!

Guess you missed the point where this Haredi group was IN DECLINE for 10 or 20 years in the US.

Refresh my memory here. When did you or any of the articles linked to by you (or myself) state that the Ultra-Orthodox share of American Jewry was "IN DECLINE for 10 or 20 years in the US"?

...But have it. You've got your priorities...

Seriously, I haven't said anything before now, but you've tried to cast aspersions on my motives for the last time without my calling you on the carpet for it. In the face of your continuous ad hominem, I've backed up my claims and refuted every one of your counter-claims with non-controversial facts and cold hard statistics. I think a little more should be expected from a moderator, Flacs.

 

[hobelim]

No... we've established that EVERYbody is mentally ill.

​

• "Our Savior. Two thieves. One is supposed to have been saved and the other (he searches for the contrary of saved) damned."
• 
  
• "Saved from what?"
  
  
• "We are all born mad. Some remain so."
  
• Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

 

[AVG-JOE]

Eventually, those types of practices will be relegated to history.

The Jews apparently have enough political clout in many nations to continue to get away it. Shit happens.

One day, probably sooner than later, the practice will most likely fade for marketing reasons, starting in the West.

Welcome to the 21st Century.​

Yeah, those Jews are getting away with it.

If only you could come up with some final solution, eh Joe?

As I state in my posts, it's not my call one way or the other.

The Jews have enough political clout in this here and now in any neighborhood that I give a shit about for me to find that particular crusade unpalatable under any circumstances, and I'm way past being liberal enough to feel like I should wait for victims to come forward and bitch about the experience before considering it to be a public, political issue.

Just what experiences are these victims gonna be bitching about Joe?

The experience of being circumcised and sucked by a Rabbi as an infant.

The liberal within suggests that unless and until parents or children come forward with stories of being 'violated', there is no crime against society to prosecute.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

(mental note, no IQ requirment to become a mod.)

 

[AVG-JOE]

Dude...

It's a conversation, not a pelvic exam.

 

[hobelim]

You are taking what some people say too literal. When a believer says he had a discussion with god or something of the like, he did what everyone does. He sat down and reasoned out what he believed to be right or best--as according to his ideas and values.

Most of them are not crazy, they just talk like they are crazy. Big difference.

If a person of any religion believes that reasoning things out in their own mind is actually a battle between God and the devil, or they are having a two way conversation with an invisible entity when their own thoughts are the only thing involved they are at best delusional and most likely so confused they wouldn't know the right course to take if their lives depended on it.