Why did the Jewish God slaughter innocent babies?

[Book of Jeremiah]

The LORD sent the angel of death because Pharoah did not let his people go. There were Egyptians who did turn to the God of the Hebrews and they left with them.

It is written:

The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children.
Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.
Exodus 12: 37,38

Who were the many other people who went with them? The Egyptians and their children who believed on the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

Is it rational to disregard the warnings of God that clearly were known to them? They knew that God blessed those who blessed his people and they knew that God cursed those who cursed his people. The wise Egyptians joined the Hebrews and were spared - they left with them - many of them left with them - with their children, their livestock as it is written in Scripture. God has given all mankind a free will, Loki. His Word is true. Those who believe it shall prosper and those who do not shall perish. Just as those who preferred to follow Pharoah saw their own firstborn perish.

You should examine the nature of Satan if you want to talk about a murderer. The stories of those who have come out of the occult / out of the families of satanists / are plentiful. Look it up and see what evil looks like. God is holy. He has no part in evil and if you choose evil you will have to eat the fruit of it which is death and destruction.

 

[irosie91]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

While it is true that the first born of the Egyptians could even have been adults, Rosie, we know that not all of them perished - only those whose parents chose to stand with Pharoah rather than to believe on the God of the Hebrews as many did (according to Exodus 12:37,38) and were spared. Those same Egyptians left with the Hebrews and followed Moses.

I wonder. Does anyone understand what the meaning of, Take responsibility, means? What didn't God do before that final judgment to prove that He was the Lord God Almighty? Will anyone have an excuse on the day of judgment that is coming? I do not believe so. They will not be able to say, "We didn't know" anymore than the Egyptians who chose to stay and follow Pharoah will be able to claim such a thing!

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

Is it rational to disregard the warnings of God that clearly were known to them?

Known and clearly understood by infants and toddlers?

They knew that God blessed those who blessed his people and they knew that God cursed those who cursed his people.

Infants and toddlers cursed Gods people you say?

The wise Egyptians joined the Hebrews and were spared - they left with them - many of them left with them - with their children, their livestock as it is written in Scripture. God has given all mankind a free will, Loki. His Word is true. Those who believe it shall prosper and those who do not shall perish. Just as those who preferred to follow Pharoah saw their own firstborn perish.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

You should examine the nature of Satan if you want to talk about a murderer. The stories of those who have come out of the occult / out of the families of satanists / are plentiful. Look it up and see what evil looks like. God is holy. He has no part in evil and if you choose evil you will have to eat the fruit of it which is death and destruction.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

 

[irosie91]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

While it is true that the first born of the Egyptians could even have been adults, Rosie, we know that not all of them perished - only those whose parents chose to stand with Pharoah rather than to believe on the God of the Hebrews as many did (according to Exodus 12:37,38) and were spared. Those same Egyptians left with the Hebrews and followed Moses.

I wonder. Does anyone understand what the meaning of, Take responsibility, means? What didn't God do before that final judgment to prove that He was the Lord God Almighty? Will anyone have an excuse on the day of judgment that is coming? I do not believe so. They will not be able to say, "We didn't know" anymore than the Egyptians who chose to stay and follow Pharoah will be able to claim such a thing!

sorry---but I do have to add------sickness and death thereby is actually kinda termed
and considered------kinda mystically-----
a "JUDGEMENT FROM HEAVEN" It's a perspective that appears in jewish scriptural writing and a perspective that persisted in both Christian and Jewish societies--for millenia

 

[irosie91]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

where do you see a "rationalization"? I presented a clarification. Obviously for anyone who believes that God is omnipotent, He must be "murderous" since people are dying all the time. In ancient times sickness and death was considered to be controlled by God. You know a God which is not "murderous"?? Or to you prefer to imagine a God with no actual abilities?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

No one said that it didn't include infants and toddlers, Loki. We're just clarifying that it was the decision of the parents who rejected the God of the Hebrews and His warning not to touch his people or harm them (curse them). People are free to reject God and his commands but they have to understand there are "consequences".

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

where do you see a "rationalization"? I presented a clarification. Obviously for anyone who believes that God is omnipotent, He must be "murderous" since people are dying all the time. In ancient times sickness and death was considered to be controlled by God. You know a God which is not "murderous"?? Or to you prefer to imagine a God with no actual abilities?

Murder has a meaning.

A god that does not murder is not murderous.

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

No one said that it didn't include infants and toddlers, Loki.

Good. Then you're of the clear understanding that this God of yours is a murderer of infants and toddlers.

We're just clarifying that it was the decision of the parents who rejected the God of the Hebrews and His warning not to touch his people or harm them (curse them). People are free to reject God and his commands but they have to understand there are "consequences".

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

 

[irosie91]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

where do you see a "rationalization"? I presented a clarification. Obviously for anyone who believes that God is omnipotent, He must be "murderous" since people are dying all the time. In ancient times sickness and death was considered to be controlled by God. You know a God which is not "murderous"?? Or to you prefer to imagine a God with no actual abilities?

Murder has a meaning.

A god that does not murder is not murderous.

OK---in order to have this discussion---one would have to define terms. "MURDER"
in Hebrew is a specific word that refers to
INTENTIONAL KILLING ASSOCIATED WITH EVIL INTENT. In fact, it even excludes self-defense. "Kill" is a different word, a general term, and "slaughter" is another word that refers to an execution style thing----including killing animals for food. I do not know which word is used in the bible----but I doubt it is either the equivalent of "slaughter" or "murder"-----it is probably the equivalent of "kill" -------heavenly decreed "killing" includes dying of a heart attack. Epidemics of sickness that kill people would be considered "heavenly decreed" How are you using the word "murder"?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

where do you see a "rationalization"? I presented a clarification. Obviously for anyone who believes that God is omnipotent, He must be "murderous" since people are dying all the time. In ancient times sickness and death was considered to be controlled by God. You know a God which is not "murderous"?? Or to you prefer to imagine a God with no actual abilities?

Murder has a meaning.

A god that does not murder is not murderous.

I'm so glad that you pointed that out. Because a murderer kills at random including those who are innocent whereas killing is justified by the guilt of the one that is a murderer - one who practices lawlessness. Consider the Amalekites. It was a just order given by God. Consider the death penalty that is given to a serial killer who is found guilty in a court of law. Do we call the judge a murderer? No, we call it a just judgment. An execution of the law.

You've answered your own question with this one, Loki. The God of Israel has never committed murder and therein He is not a murderer. God does not tempt others to sin / to commit murder. God is pure and holy and cannot be tempted to sin. To commit murder is a sin. God executes judgment. To execute judgment is not is a sin. It is a righteous act. God is holy, righteous and just Thank you for reading.

 

[irosie91]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

No one said that it didn't include infants and toddlers, Loki.

Good. Then you're of the clear understanding that this God of yours is a murderer of infants and toddlers.

We're just clarifying that it was the decision of the parents who rejected the God of the Hebrews and His warning not to touch his people or harm them (curse them). People are free to reject God and his commands but they have to understand there are "consequences".

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

still depends on how you define "murder" ------"heavenly decreed death" is not called
"murder" in biblical parlance (ie Hebrew)---it can be a penalty not only on an individual but even on a society. Group
responsibility is a real issue in Judaism. Deaths within a society can be construed as a consequence of sin.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rosie, I hope you have a wonderful afternoon,. I've enjoyed reading your responses to Loki. Hopefully it has enlightened him / her to the nature of God and given better understanding of the holiness of God and how seriously He takes the matter of people harming His children. One can only hope that message has gotten through today.

 

[irosie91]

GEE-----we are turning into lawyers-----
For the record----"MURDER" is defined
in American jurisprudence in the same
way it is defined in the bible. ----- It
must include that "mens rea" thing
which, I think, is latin for something like
evil intent. Without evil intent----it AIN'T
"MURDER" in both jewish and
American
jurisprudence------it's "homicide" The
word used in the ten commandments ----
is the Hebrew word for murder in the list
of DON'Ts In both systems if it isn't
MURDER it isn't a capital crime.

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

where do you see a "rationalization"? I presented a clarification. Obviously for anyone who believes that God is omnipotent, He must be "murderous" since people are dying all the time. In ancient times sickness and death was considered to be controlled by God. You know a God which is not "murderous"?? Or to you prefer to imagine a God with no actual abilities?

Murder has a meaning.

A god that does not murder is not murderous.

OK---in order to have this discussion---one would have to define terms. "MURDER"
in Hebrew is a specific word that refers to
INTENTIONAL KILLING ASSOCIATED WITH EVIL INTENT.

Circular. Even in Hebrew.

In fact, it even excludes self-defense. "Kill" is a different word, a general term, and "slaughter" is another word that refers to an execution style thing----including killing animals for food. I do not know which word is used in the bible----but I doubt it is either the equivalent of "slaughter" or "murder"-----it is probably the equivalent of "kill" -------heavenly decreed "killing" includes dying of a heart attack. Epidemics of sickness that kill people would be considered "heavenly decreed" How are you using the word "murder"?

The intentional and unjustifiable killing of a human being.

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

where do you see a "rationalization"? I presented a clarification. Obviously for anyone who believes that God is omnipotent, He must be "murderous" since people are dying all the time. In ancient times sickness and death was considered to be controlled by God. You know a God which is not "murderous"?? Or to you prefer to imagine a God with no actual abilities?

Murder has a meaning.

A god that does not murder is not murderous.

I'm so glad that you pointed that out. Because a murderer kills at random including those who are innocent whereas killing is justified by the guilt of the one that is a murderer - one who practices lawlessness.

Assassins are murders, and their targets are not random. Genocide is murder on a large scale and the targets are not random.

Consider the Amalekites. It was a just order given by God. Consider the death penalty that is given to a serial killer who is found guilty in a court of law. Do we call the judge a murderer? No, we call it a just judgment. An execution of the law.

Consider instead infants and toddlers. What "lawlessness" are they guilty of? Do we call the intentional and unjustifiable killing of infants and toddlers murder? Of course we do.

You've answered your own question with this one, Loki.

Yes. Your God is a bloodthirsty and sadistic murderer.

The God of Israel has never committed murder and therein He is not a murderer.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

God does not tempt others to sin / to commit murder.

That remains to be demonstrated... unless you're just saying that your God commits murder by His own divine hand.

That really changes nothing.

God is pure and holy and cannot be tempted to sin.

Meaningless. Of course God cannot disobey Himself. That has nothing to do with being "pure" or "holy."

To commit murder is a sin. God executes judgment.

Question-begging nonsense.

To execute judgment is not is a sin. It is a righteous act.

Judging an infant guilty of sin, and then killing her is murder. It is in no way "righteous." It is the act of a blood-thirsty criminal.

God is holy, righteous and just

Hardly.

Thank you for reading.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

I don't understand why so many here keep repeating "Killed children" or even "slaughtered children". "slaughter" refers to a violent death----like butchering or some kind of execution. Generally "death by God" in the bible means death by sickness. "first born" is a social status---very important in ancient times---it does not mean INFANT. Prince Charles of England is a "first born"----that's why he gets to be king. The situation described in
the bible----is far more likely supposed to refer to some kind of epidemic than daggers raining down on infants from the clouds. Maybe it was ebola virus-----or measles.

" First born" in no way excludes infants and toddlers.

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

No one said that it didn't include infants and toddlers, Loki.

Good. Then you're of the clear understanding that this God of yours is a murderer of infants and toddlers.

We're just clarifying that it was the decision of the parents who rejected the God of the Hebrews and His warning not to touch his people or harm them (curse them). People are free to reject God and his commands but they have to understand there are "consequences".

Rationalize it any way you like to ease your cognitive dissonance:

Any story about a God who kills children who cannot understand the consequences of disbelief or belief, is a story about a murderous God.

still depends on how you define "murder" ------"heavenly decreed death" is not called
"murder" in biblical parlance (ie Hebrew)---it can be a penalty not only on an individual but even on a society. Group
responsibility is a real issue in Judaism. Deaths within a society can be construed as a consequence of sin.

Petitio principii.