Why do people hate Liberals?

[thanatos144]

Yes it was a call for the people to do something for the government because the Government had given much to them.
President Kennedy was a Conservative Democrat compared to his brother Ted Kenney who was a liberal.

What is the difference between a Conservative Dem and a Liberal Dem?
Conservative Dems fund the social programs with the money that is already there.
Liberal Dems don't figure in the funding, add more people on the programs and then kick the can down the road. Then they want to fix the funding much later on by very high taxes.

President Kennedy was more like Bush Jr. on taxes.
President Kennedy wanted to reduce income taxes from 20-90% to 14-65%
He wanted to reduce the Corp tax from 52% to 47%.
He also said the soundest way to raise revenue in the long term is to lower rates now.

I'm sure current Democrats would be content with taxes 14-65%
and corporate rates at 47%

Would that make them Republicans?

You missed the point entirely.

If you adjust for population it is about the same..... So it is even more frustrating cause we paid billions into something that Made no impact....

 

[Foxfyre]

The difference between JFK liberalism and now:

Then
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtLTmg2vCzY]Listening In: JFK Calls about Furniture (July 25, 1963) - YouTube[/ame]

Now
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFcLqxLrOo]GSA Employees' Spoof Video - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZTpWEJWU4]IRS Party Caught on Tape: Dancing Away Tax Dollars - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GOSWe1uaNw]Fiscal cliff deal filled with pork - YouTube[/ame]

 

[rightwinger]

The difference between JFK liberalism and now:

Then
Listening In: JFK Calls about Furniture (July 25, 1963) - YouTube

Now
GSA Employees' Spoof Video - YouTube

IRS Party Caught on Tape: Dancing Away Tax Dollars - YouTube

Fiscal cliff deal filled with pork - YouTube

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

 

[midcan5]

This discussion does not belong in Philosophy. i.e. 'The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.'

"The aim of philosophy, abstractly formulated, is to understand how things in the broadest possible sense of the term hang together in the broadest possible sense of the term." Wilfrid Sellars

 

[Foxfyre]

Believe me I tried Midcans. Tried with every trick I knew to get them to discuss concepts instead of politic bashing per usual. But alas, neither right nor left seems to have much ability to do that any more, or at least any interest.

 

[Foxfyre]

The difference between JFK liberalism and now:

Then
Listening In: JFK Calls about Furniture (July 25, 1963) - YouTube

Now
GSA Employees' Spoof Video - YouTube

IRS Party Caught on Tape: Dancing Away Tax Dollars - YouTube

Fiscal cliff deal filled with pork - YouTube

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

If you can't see the difference between a liberal president of the 1960's fretting about a $5,000 expenditure to what passes for government these days? It is indeed crap but not because we expose it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Believe me I tried Midcans. Tried with every trick I knew to get them to discuss concepts instead of politic bashing per usual. But alas, neither right nor left seems to have much ability to do that any more, or at least any interest.

Rather than ‘tricks’ try facts instead, as opposed to the errors and falsehoods you’ve expressed concerning the Framers, their intent, and the meaning of the Constitution.

 

[freedombecki]

The difference between JFK liberalism and now:

Then
Listening In: JFK Calls about Furniture (July 25, 1963) - YouTube

Now
GSA Employees' Spoof Video - YouTube

IRS Party Caught on Tape: Dancing Away Tax Dollars - YouTube

Fiscal cliff deal filled with pork - YouTube

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

I don't think there's a hint of crap in what she said. In the 60s there was no such thing as a trillion dollar National Debt. Right now, we're staring down the barrel of a $17 trillion dollar National Debt explosive, and the liberals hone in on beating up on a Neighborhood Watch guy who had to engaged in self-defense.

That $17 trillion dollar national debt is the elephant sitting in the living room. It just won't go away with yammering about cutting wasteful spending while authorizing billions in printed money from the Treasury without notifying Congress which is the only group the Constitution authorizes to ok spending, and not this administration which is uncooperative with Constitutional law that clearly says Congress must authorize first, and not the Executive Branch.

The difference between modern Democrats and Republicans is that Republicans still don't steal the silver when they leave office. Republicans know it is the people's property and not parting gifts to campaign donors and staff.

 

[Intense]

This discussion does not belong in Philosophy. i.e. 'The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.'

"The aim of philosophy, abstractly formulated, is to understand how things in the broadest possible sense of the term hang together in the broadest possible sense of the term." Wilfrid Sellars

The discussion is heated, and side tracked, yet it is rooted in the judgement of Liberal Philosophy. The direction the thread takes is in the hands of the participants. It is a philosophical discussion.

My take, personally, would be to distinguish between true Liberalism, which I have zero problem with, and Statist Progressivism, which I find Totalitarian. The Statist Utopia is a Paradise for the ruling class, and the connected. It is Hell on Earth, for the rest.

 

[rightwinger]

The difference between JFK liberalism and now:

Then
Listening In: JFK Calls about Furniture (July 25, 1963) - YouTube

Now
GSA Employees' Spoof Video - YouTube

IRS Party Caught on Tape: Dancing Away Tax Dollars - YouTube

Fiscal cliff deal filled with pork - YouTube

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

If you can't see the difference between a liberal president of the 1960's fretting about a $5,000 expenditure to what passes for government these days? It is indeed crap but not because we expose it.

Historical amnesia...

Jackie Kennedy was hounded by conservatives for her extravagant spending in refurbishing the White House

Harry Truman had the White House completely gutted and rebuilt from the inside out

Imagine the outrage if the Obamas did that......they can't even take a freaking vacation

 

[Pogo]

This discussion does not belong in Philosophy. i.e. 'The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.'

"The aim of philosophy, abstractly formulated, is to understand how things in the broadest possible sense of the term hang together in the broadest possible sense of the term." Wilfrid Sellars

The discussion is heated, and side tracked, yet it is rooted in the judgement of Liberal Philosophy. The direction the thread takes is in the hands of the participants. It is a philosophical discussion.

My take, personally, would be to distinguish between true Liberalism, which I have zero problem with, and Statist Progressivism, which I find Totalitarian. The Statist Utopia is a Paradise for the ruling class, and the connected. It is Hell on Earth, for the rest.

The thread should rooted in philosophy, but most seem to want to continue to pollute the discussion with the same-old hackneyed bullshit terms, hanging on to them for dear life rather than dare to ever question them. Then they wonder why they get nowhere.

"Why do people hate liberals"? Because the man in the box tells them to. What the man in the box doesn't tell them is what 'liberal' means. That would be too much like understanding, and understanding is definitely not the objective of the man in the box. His objective is getting you to engage you in the Two Minutes Hate. You're not supposed to ask "why". Ignorance is Strength.

 

[RKMBrown]

This discussion does not belong in Philosophy. i.e. 'The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.'

"The aim of philosophy, abstractly formulated, is to understand how things in the broadest possible sense of the term hang together in the broadest possible sense of the term." Wilfrid Sellars

The discussion is heated, and side tracked, yet it is rooted in the judgement of Liberal Philosophy. The direction the thread takes is in the hands of the participants. It is a philosophical discussion.

My take, personally, would be to distinguish between true Liberalism, which I have zero problem with, and Statist Progressivism, which I find Totalitarian. The Statist Utopia is a Paradise for the ruling class, and the connected. It is Hell on Earth, for the rest.

The thread should rooted in philosophy, but most seem to want to continue to pollute the discussion with the same-old hackneyed bullshit terms, hanging on to them for dear life rather than dare to ever question them. Then they wonder why they get nowhere.

"Why do people hate liberals"? Because the man in the box tells them to. What the man in the box doesn't tell them is what 'liberal' means. That would be too much like understanding, and understanding is definitely not the objective of the man in the box. His objective is getting you to engage you in the Two Minutes Hate. You're not supposed to ask "why". Ignorance is Strength.

blah blah blah

Without struggle what is the point of life? To have fun? To be lazy? To enjoy the good life? At what cost?

Classical liberalism is the opposite of current liberal philosophy. Current liberal leadership is led by authoritarian statist socialists. Just as current conservatives are lead by authoritarian statists. The common thread behind our two leading parties is authoritarian statism. Gone are the ideals of individual freedom through a Laissez-faire economic environment in which governments sole job is to ensure property rights, but for the most part to just leave us the hell alone.

What remains is people like Bush, Christie, Pelosi, Clinton, and Obama decrying folks who love freedom like Rand Paul are "dangerous" because they want to throw grandma over the cliff, invite terrorists to kill us, and starve the children.

We are under attack by a philosophy of authoritarian statism. Their bible is rules for radicals by alinsky. Their idols are satan, stalin, and hitler. Yes these folks want to rule in hell, and are doing their best to get us there. A world where your every step is monitored and examined by government brown suits. A world where everyone that is not in the ruling class will be herded like cattle. A world where income will be replaced with food lines and basic shelter. A world where owning livestock and growing your own food will be made illegal. 1984 is upon us.

 

[Foxfyre]

This discussion does not belong in Philosophy. i.e. 'The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.'

"The aim of philosophy, abstractly formulated, is to understand how things in the broadest possible sense of the term hang together in the broadest possible sense of the term." Wilfrid Sellars

The discussion is heated, and side tracked, yet it is rooted in the judgement of Liberal Philosophy. The direction the thread takes is in the hands of the participants. It is a philosophical discussion.

My take, personally, would be to distinguish between true Liberalism, which I have zero problem with, and Statist Progressivism, which I find Totalitarian. The Statist Utopia is a Paradise for the ruling class, and the connected. It is Hell on Earth, for the rest.

The thread should rooted in philosophy, but most seem to want to continue to pollute the discussion with the same-old hackneyed bullshit terms, hanging on to them for dear life rather than dare to ever question them. Then they wonder why they get nowhere.

"Why do people hate liberals"? Because the man in the box tells them to. What the man in the box doesn't tell them is what 'liberal' means. That would be too much like understanding, and understanding is definitely not the objective of the man in the box. His objective is getting you to engage you in the Two Minutes Hate. You're not supposed to ask "why". Ignorance is Strength.

Actually you have a point though again the statement that anybody hates liberals is in itself hyperbole of the worst kind and is simply not true. I don't think there is a single person here whether we identify ourselves as conservative or classical liberal or libertarian -- all mostly synonymous in modern American vernacular -- not one of us hates liberals aka leftists aka statists aka political class. also all mostly synonymous in modern American vernacular..

We hate the 'liberalism' they promote and try to force on the rest of us.

What we should be hating is the dishonesty of the statists, leftists, political class identifying themselves as 'liberal' and thereby appropriating and corrupting yet another perfectly good word that once represented something quite different than it does now.

 

[Surfer]

Jackie Kennedy was hounded by conservatives for her extravagant spending in refurbishing the White House...Imagine the outrage if the Obamas did that......they can't even take a freaking vacation

Jackie Kennedy was a useless, whiny, overindulged, spoiled, useless brat. The Husseins HAVE done plenty of frivolous spending. The White House looks like the ghetto. They have taken more (pricey) vacations than all past presidents combined. Husseins' teleprompter-traveling costs alone are astronomical. The Husseins have been on vacation for their entire invasion of the White House.

 

[freedombecki]

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

If you can't see the difference between a liberal president of the 1960's fretting about a $5,000 expenditure to what passes for government these days? It is indeed crap but not because we expose it.

Historical amnesia...

Jackie Kennedy was hounded by conservatives for her extravagant spending in refurbishing the White House

Harry Truman had the White House completely gutted and rebuilt from the inside out

Imagine the outrage if the Obamas did that......they can't even take a freaking vacation

Huh? This administration when not out to a double lobster lunch is on permanent vacation from accountability!

 

[rightwinger]

The discussion is heated, and side tracked, yet it is rooted in the judgement of Liberal Philosophy. The direction the thread takes is in the hands of the participants. It is a philosophical discussion.

My take, personally, would be to distinguish between true Liberalism, which I have zero problem with, and Statist Progressivism, which I find Totalitarian. The Statist Utopia is a Paradise for the ruling class, and the connected. It is Hell on Earth, for the rest.

The thread should rooted in philosophy, but most seem to want to continue to pollute the discussion with the same-old hackneyed bullshit terms, hanging on to them for dear life rather than dare to ever question them. Then they wonder why they get nowhere.

"Why do people hate liberals"? Because the man in the box tells them to. What the man in the box doesn't tell them is what 'liberal' means. That would be too much like understanding, and understanding is definitely not the objective of the man in the box. His objective is getting you to engage you in the Two Minutes Hate. You're not supposed to ask "why". Ignorance is Strength.

Actually you have a point though again the statement that anybody hates liberals is in itself hyperbole of the worst kind and is simply not true. I don't think there is a single person here whether we identify ourselves as conservative or classical liberal or libertarian -- all mostly synonymous in modern American vernacular -- not one of us hates liberals aka leftists aka statists aka political class. also all mostly synonymous in modern American vernacular..

We hate the 'liberalism' they promote and try to force on the rest of us.

What we should be hating is the dishonesty of the statists, leftists, political class identifying themselves as 'liberal' and thereby appropriating and corrupting yet another perfectly good word that once represented something quite different than it does now.

Give me a break....

Conservatives don't try to "force" their ideology on the rest of us?

The way it works is you run on your ideology. You win, the will of the people supports your position. What is happening is conservatives are forcing their ideology on the rest of us even though they are the minority

 

[rightwinger]

If you can't see the difference between a liberal president of the 1960's fretting about a $5,000 expenditure to what passes for government these days? It is indeed crap but not because we expose it.

Historical amnesia...

Jackie Kennedy was hounded by conservatives for her extravagant spending in refurbishing the White House

Harry Truman had the White House completely gutted and rebuilt from the inside out

Imagine the outrage if the Obamas did that......they can't even take a freaking vacation

Huh? This administration when not out to a double lobster lunch is on permanent vacation from accountability!

Save us your childish nonsense and show the nice people how Obama has taken more vacation than previous Presidents

 

[Foxfyre]

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

If you can't see the difference between a liberal president of the 1960's fretting about a $5,000 expenditure to what passes for government these days? It is indeed crap but not because we expose it.

Historical amnesia...

Jackie Kennedy was hounded by conservatives for her extravagant spending in refurbishing the White House

Harry Truman had the White House completely gutted and rebuilt from the inside out

Imagine the outrage if the Obamas did that......they can't even take a freaking vacation

The Obama vacations, private parties, and other extravagant expenditures coupled with the outrageous 'conferences' and other events staged by people under Obama's 'leadership' most likely cost the taxpayer more than the White House renovations done by the Trumans and Kennedys combined. And in the 1950's and 1960's, Congress CARED what the people thought about them spending money and made every effort to at least appear responsible. In those days obsolete programs and projects were ended. Now they are just labeled with a new mission and given bigger budgets.

But to correct history that some of our members insist on mangling for purposes of political expediency:

"In 1961, when John and Jackie Kennedy moved into the White House, they found that the Truman-era decor and furnishings used modern fabrics or were casual reproductions of period pieces. These items had been acquired quickly as funds dried up in 1952, and, many felt, didn't befit the heritage of the home of the president of the United States. Jackie Kennedy's upbringing and education gave her a deep appreciation for fine art and authentic period pieces, so she looked for ways—on the White House's limited budget—to not merely redecorate but to restore the White House to a grander, more authentic period look appropriate to its role in American life."
Kennedy Renovation - White House Museum

History will show that Jackie used mostly donated expertise and private donated funds for much of the project.

Truman had his ups and downs with Congress re funding for White House structural projects but ultimately. . . "the main body of the mansion was found to be structurally unsound. Floors no longer merely creaked; they swayed. The president's bathtub was sinking into the floor. A leg of Margaret's piano broke through the floor in what is today the Private Dining Room. Engineers did a thorough examination and found plaster in a corner of the East Room sagging as much as 18 inches. Wooden beams had been weakened by cutting and drilling for plumbing and wiring over 150 years, and the addition of the steel roof and full third floor in 1927 added weight the building could no longer handle. They declared the whole house to be in imminent danger of collapse."

Congress then had no choice but authorizing the funding to do the necessary reconstruction.
Truman Reconstruction - White House Museum

 

[Uncensored2008]

Total crap

You think there wasn't waste in the 60s and it is related to liberals?

There has always been waste, and always been corruption.

But as Obama guides us from first world to third world, what were minor anomalies transition to the defining features of this regime.

We have Eric fucking Holder - a level of corruption not previously imagined for this nation or any nation outside of a Central African dictatorship.

 

[rightwinger]

If you can't see the difference between a liberal president of the 1960's fretting about a $5,000 expenditure to what passes for government these days? It is indeed crap but not because we expose it.

Historical amnesia...

Jackie Kennedy was hounded by conservatives for her extravagant spending in refurbishing the White House

Harry Truman had the White House completely gutted and rebuilt from the inside out

Imagine the outrage if the Obamas did that......they can't even take a freaking vacation

The Obama vacations, private parties, and other extravagant expenditures couples with the outrageous 'conferences' and other events staged by people under Obama's 'leadership' most likely cost the taxpayer more than the White House renovations done by the Trumans and Kennedys combined. And in the 1950's and 1960's, Congress CARED what the people thought about them spending money and made every effort to at least appear responsible. In those days obsolete programs and projects were ended. Now they are just labeled with a new mission and given bigger budgets.

But to correct history that some of our members insist on mangling for purposes of political expediency:

"In 1961, when John and Jackie Kennedy moved into the White House, they found that the Truman-era decor and furnishings used modern fabrics or were casual reproductions of period pieces. These items had been acquired quickly as funds dried up in 1952, and, many felt, didn't befit the heritage of the home of the president of the United States. Jackie Kennedy's upbringing and education gave her a deep appreciation for fine art and authentic period pieces, so she looked for ways—on the White House's limited budget—to not merely redecorate but to restore the White House to a grander, more authentic period look appropriate to its role in American life."
Kennedy Renovation - White House Museum

History will show that Jackie used mostly donated expertise and private donated funds for much of the project.

Truman had his ups and downs with Congress re funding for White House structural projects but ultimately. . . "the main body of the mansion was found to be structurally unsound. Floors no longer merely creaked; they swayed. The president's bathtub was sinking into the floor. A leg of Margaret's piano broke through the floor in what is today the Private Dining Room. Engineers did a thorough examination and found plaster in a corner of the East Room sagging as much as 18 inches. Wooden beams had been weakened by cutting and drilling for plumbing and wiring over 150 years, and the addition of the steel roof and full third floor in 1927 added weight the building could no longer handle. They declared the whole house to be in imminent danger of collapse."

Congress then had no choice but authorizing the funding to do the necessary reconstruction.
Truman Reconstruction - White House Museum

Please show where Obamas extravagant vacations, parties and expenditures outpace previous administrations or shut the fuck up