Why do you support Ukraine?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Maybe they need you undercover to save their ass. Zelensky is as corrupt as the best of them.

You know him personally?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

We waited too long to enter WWII to stop Nazi Germany. Russia is the Nazi Germany of today. Any action we take now will help stop this terrible aggression from spreading. Please note; it has just been revealed that Russia attempted to overthrow the government of the nation of Moldova. Who knows what other nations they are doing that to right now and would do to other nations if they're not stopped now. Their government is the problem, it's totally corrupt. The Russian people are victims like everyone else.

I had to disagree with what you’re saying brother. The United States has been accused of overthrowing so many governments of the 20th century whether in South America or many places of the world. So there in is the point again I’m not going to throw stones in glass houses as an American. The way I look at it is that a country like the United States of the 20th century or the Soviet union of the 20th century we’re competing for international power and they were doing what they could to influence other countries. This is a part of human history the great world powers do what they can to influence as much of the world as possible. Hope is it’s done in a good way.

Yes there’s corruption in Russia but there’s also corruption issues in the Ukraine. There are Ukrainian oligarchs just as there are Russian oligarchs.

We live in a violent world a world where the military powers of the world make the big moves. And so Russia and America are competing with each other unfortunately. It’s unfortunate that we are not working together like we were in the 1990s or even after 9/11 when Russia helped us fight Al-Qaeda.

Let’s keep in mind that it wasn’t too long ago that the Soviet union fell apart the second greatest empire at the time behind United States of America when it fell. So this is relatively young the Russian Federation is relatively young.



I’ll just go back to when the United States invaded Afghanistan and then just a few years later invaded Iraq …not only that but we launch drone strikes whenever we want. We do whatever the hell we want with our military we have the strongest military in the world. We actually do things with our military that the American public doesn’t know about. And so I’m not gonna throw that stone in the glass house.

I don’t think Russia is going to go after another country if they have success in Ukraine and frankly it seems like they just want eastern Ukraine.

And what about all the people in Ukraine who are pro Russian?

There’s only ever been one Adolf Hitler that’s it it’s Adolf Hitler. Zelenskyy’s not Hitler, Putin is not Hitler. Putin is Putin and Zelensky is Zelensky

 

[Lastamender]

You know him personally?

Irrelevant.

 

[Kruska]

You don't realize that to have an emperor you need an empire?

Again your lack of knowledge doesn't come as a surprise to me.
Haile Selassie I, Emperor of Ethiopia from 1930 to 1974, you also are unaware about a Jean-Bédel Bokassa I.

 

[Mac1958]

because I hate putin and what he stands for. The guy is a fascist creep that shits on human rights, freedom and freedom of expression. I have to ask why you support him? That isn't something FDR would be ok with.

I support Ukraine for the same reason I held my nose and voted for Biden.

I had no particularly positive feelings about Ukraine. None. But the alternative is ugly, unstable, unacceptable, and far more dangerous.

 

[Kruska]

....I don’t think Russia is going to go after another country if they have success in Ukraine and frankly it seems like they just want eastern Ukraine.....

On this issue - we would be in disagreement. Putin want's, needs to control all of Ukraine, and has a clear agenda towards non NATO countries, such as Moldova and Belarus. The Caucasus region and Central Asia are on his watch-list as well.
The US government and it's tools e.g. CIA are increasingly involved in subversive activities amongst countries bordering Russia and China, e.g. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Mongolia.

 

[Burgermeister]

If by support you mean use my money to provide military support that is extending the war, likely won't change the outcome anyway, and cause more loss of life while antagonizing a nuclear superpower, absolutely not.

That's leaving out the whole corrupt regime thing and the zero real benefit for Americans to be involved thing (other than the people making massive bank on the conflict).

 

[Burgermeister]

I support Ukraine for the same reason I held my nose and voted for Biden.

I had no particularly positive feelings about Ukraine. None. But the alternative is ugly, unstable, unacceptable, and far more dangerous.

Layers of irony here.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

On this issue - we would be in disagreement. Putin want's, needs to control all of Ukraine, and has a clear agenda towards non NATO countries, such as Moldova and Belarus. The Caucasus region and Central Asia are on his watch-list as well.
The US government and it's tools e.g. CIA are increasingly involved in subversive activities amongst countries bordering Russia and China, e.g. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Mongolia.

Well to your point you are making a good point. The whole thing reminds me of the great game if you will or even I suppose the scramble for Africa in the 19th century. What we are seeing is the world powers are competing for international influence. Throughout history this has been the norm.

 

[Patriot01]

I hope corrupt Ukraine burns to the f ground, may the good ppl survive

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

This thread is meant for Americans who support Ukraine or I suppose Canadians or Europeans for that matter. Why do you support Ukraine?

Let me explain my position on the war I am neutral in the Russia Ukraine war. As an American I recognize that we invaded dated Iraq … for anyone here who supports Ukraine when we invaded Iraq in 2003 did you support Iraq? If not then what kind of logic do you have? When we went to war in Vietnam to defend south Vietnam from north Vietnam did you support north Vietnam ? because if you didn’t then why are you supporting Ukraine today?


Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia did not invade the United States of America. As an American I have no reason to be against Russia they did not support Saddam Hussein and Iraq in 2003 and they could have quite easily… but they did not they could’ve sent them tons and tons of F-16 jets or they could’ve sent them rifles they could’ve sent them plenty of tanks who knows chemical weapons they could’ve sent them many things that’s the point but they didn’t.


I suspect many people here support Ukraine because their government is telling them to do so. Because they see pictures on the media outlets including right wing and left wing …showing some Ukrainian refugees and children crying. Going by that same logic literally the same logic because we’re all human beings doesn’t matter what country you’re from unless somebody is a bigot. ….What about the grandmas in Iraq that were crying and screaming because of their dead grandchildren when the Americans invaded?

I can already imagine some of the far left wing and even the neo conservative responses

“ oh Saddam Hussein’s not the same thing as Zelenskyy”

Well actually Saddam Hussein had a huge amount of support from Iraqi Christians and from women in Iraq. And look at today Iraq is almost controlled by Iran and there’s many people in Iraq many people in the Arab nation that are against Iran they don’t like seeing women forced to cover their hair. But in Iraq and parts of Iraq that’s an issue now. Wasn’t like that in the 1980s or 1990s when by the way America support Iraq in a fight against Iran.

“ Ukrainian lives matter , CNN tells me this so I support Ukraine, can’t you see what Vladimir Putin is doing to Ukraine. Can’t you see how evil the Russians are. Don’t you see all the pictures of people crying in Ukraine

This is not a logical argument from the neoconservatives and from the left-wing Americans. And here is why …you could look at the photos from the Vietnam war of young Vietnamese babies being killed Vietnamese children crying.

There are individual Americans and individual Russians who have committed war crimes in war…but most Americans and most Russians just like most Ukrainians are good people. This all goes back to one thing you see America has invaded other countries so when Russia invaded Ukraine don’t throw that stone in the glass house.

Finally and here’s something really important to consider. Yes it is true that Russia is not really like Vietnam or Iraq in one singular extraordinary sense. Russia has the most nuclear weapons in the world.

I do not support invading other countries under false pretenses and bullshit reasons.....



This is why right-wingers hated folks like me when I was against invading Iraq for bullshit reasons, under false pretenses.......funny how it took right-wingers years later to finally pretend they were against that war for the same reasons..


But those same right-wingers are practically waving poms poms for another country's invasion.....

 

[Soupnazi630]

ny

Wrong.
The southwest states were illegally stolen by the US, and should be returned.
The Texas rangers are notorious for murdering ethnic Mexicans who legally kept their property rights by treaty, so we killed them so we could steal their homes.

They were not illegally stolen. They were legally annexed.

Texas rangers are not known for that

As usdual you are lying

 

[Soupnazi630]

The ukrainian president the russian speaking population massively voted for, Viktor Yanukovitch, born in Donetsk, was removed from power in a fraudulent impeachment process after the ukrainian majority went to the streets to protest.

The russian speaking population said enough is enough and decided to secede from an ukranian majority country that didn't represent them.

But there's no chance in hell you're gonna accept, let alone support, Donetsk and Luhansk's fight for freedom from ukrainian oppressive rule and their right to self determination, because it completely destroys your whole narrative of a heroic, united Ukraine fighting big, bad Russia.

People like you have no problem with people being subjugated as long as the subjugation is done by Ukrainians.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation which RUssia had no right to invade,

Your claims are absolute proven lies. No one wanted to put nukes on Russias border

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Again your lack of knowledge doesn't come as a surprise to me.
Haile Selassie I, Emperor of Ethiopia from 1930 to 1974, you also are unaware about a Jean-Bédel Bokassa I.

What does that have to do with the dicussion?

 

[Kruska]

What does that have to do with the dicussion?

Ask the guy who brought up this issue - YOU

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ask the guy who brought up this issue - YOU

Those emperors controlled an empire.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Again your lack of knowledge doesn't come as a surprise to me.
Haile Selassie I, Emperor of Ethiopia from 1930 to 1974, you also are unaware about a Jean-Bédel Bokassa I.

Zelensky has no empire, and no one was talking to you, asswipe!

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I do not support invading other countries under false pretenses and bullshit reasons.....



This is why right-wingers hated folks like me when I was against invading Iraq for bullshit reasons, under false pretenses.......funny how it took right-wingers years later to finally pretend they were against that war for the same reasons..


But those same right-wingers are practically waving poms poms for another country's invasion.....

The issue at hand is real politics as they say. Understanding the world we live in where world super powers will compete for international influence. And I’ve said before I disagree with the Iraq invasion but I support the US military and when our country goes to war I support it. And I think that George W. Bush was an ok president.

There’s another point I had to I’ve always respected Russia because of their contribution to World War II ..and I think that that is a very valid and human reason. They were the ones who stood up against the third Reich more than anyone they lost tens of millions in the fight.

I see lots of similarities between the Russian people and the American people.

 

[Kruska]

I do not support invading other countries under false pretenses and bullshit reasons.....



This is why right-wingers hated folks like me when I was against invading Iraq for bullshit reasons, under false pretenses.......funny how it took right-wingers years later to finally pretend they were against that war for the same reasons..


But those same right-wingers are practically waving poms poms for another country's invasion.....

Putin does not accept a further expansion of NATO towards Russian territory. That is not a "false pretense" neither is it a "bullshit reason"
It is absolutely understood that a NATO controlled Ukraine poses an ultimate danger for Russia's national security, in both military and economic terms.

Imagine for a minute that CIS or the Shanghai-group (SG) would accept Mexico's bid to become a member. Mexico also initiates the application towards becoming a BRIC member additionally to being already a NAFTA member. The Mexican government having enacted such a move to show their discontent of US policies towards Mexico. The Mexican armed forces are starting to get trained by CIS and the PLA. Then CIS or SG will incite a government change that clearly does their bidding and not that of the USA. The new President is a young comedian (with zero political experience) who has promised to end corruption and the Cartel violence in Mexico.
CIS and PLA troop numbers, training the Mexican army, rapidly increases and they are starting to supply large weapon shipments. Due to CIS, SG and Mexico claiming that the USA is preparing to attack them, this "cooperation" is even more intensified.

According to your or others believes; - naturally the USA will ultimately respect Mexico being a sovereign state and can do whatever they wish. That this former comedian isn't controlled by CIS and SG is fully accepted, and no doubt about his personal capabilities to rule Mexico exist. He starts to close down opposition parties and media stations that are close to Washington - in order to stop false propaganda from the USA. The USA fully suports such moves and finds them to be of a democratic mindset. That a huge chunk of the US supply chain is based in Mexico also doesn't worry them a bit. The possibility that CIS and SG will later start to deploy nukes in Mexico and cut off the supply chain is regarded to be an absurd if not a preposterous idea, by the US government - right?

Now transfer such a possible scenario onto a deceleration of independence by Texas, due to a complete breakdown of economic and government institutions of the USA in 1990. Also 40-50% of the Texas population hate/dislike Washington D.C. for it's 170? years of discrimination towards Hispanics. At the same time a dozen other southern states break of from the USA. The remaining USA now calls itself the American Federation of States (AFS), and the former US state of Texas now calls itself simply Texas. The AFS still possesses the world's largest or second largest nuclear arsenal.
Everyone who studied or is familiar with the AFS's previous history (aka Russia's and US history) is aware that these large countries were founded solely upon conquests, huge land purchases and thus subjection of previous inhabitants of other countries, and even partial extermination of it's original population. They can be termed as countries beset throughout it's 250 years history (Russia around 350 years) by non-stop aggressive politics. The AFS also starts to re-participate towards the control of the remaining world since 2000 under their new president Vonald Bidin.

Now would it be advisable to clearly compromise with the AFS since 1991 or latest since 2000, to agree towards a neutral-buffer zone along its southern border, or should CIF, SG and BRIC take control of it's breakaway states whilst it is to weak to do anything about it? A serious problem could be that ca. 20-30% of the Texas population still feel to be Americans and are not really favoring the idea of belonging to a new country that propagates to be a Hispanic country with a supposed own national identity. There are also problems in a new independent country called Orlean - were American separatists are demanding independence from a French/Hispanic controlled government. Off course the AFS is very keen towards helping them out.

One can hardly turn back historic events - but for NATO/USA to continue it's expansion towards, e.g. Ukraine, Georgia etc. is simply begging for a war, inciting a war.

WMD - I was one off those who knew that this was a fake accusation. However it seems very likely/realistic to me that Saddam was on the way of obtaining such weapons. Just as Iran is presently on it's way.
Why Bush jun. couldn't simply forward his reasons to attack Iraq as being a (preemptive strike/attack) due to the factual in-transparency of WMD control in Iraq - don't ask me. IMO Bush simply attacked too early in order to find the proof for his claim.

Why Republicans and others now view the Ukraine war differently from Iraq, might be simply due to the fact, that the 2nd Iraq war posed no military threat towards the US mainland at all. The Ukraine-Russia war clearly does.
Also during Trump's tenure - the democrats and libs constantly pointed out the difficulties besetting the USA itself. They promised that upon being elected that all this will change to the better. From what I can see (I am not an American) nothing has really changed in that regard, but the US government is spending hundreds of Billions, sooner or later Trillions in Ukraine.

 

[Kruska]

There’s another point I had to I’ve always respected Russia because of their contribution to World War II ..and I think that that is a very valid and human reason. They were the ones who stood up against the third Reich more than anyone they lost tens of millions in the fight.

What??! "contribution" ?? you are beginning to startle me.

Stalin attacked Finland, he attacked Poland and had his Baltic States issue.

He was attacked by Nazi Germany and therefore logically defended his Soviet-Union. The UK and especially the USA "contributed" with huge supply shipments to support his military defense capabilities towards the Wehrmacht. These contributions essentially prevented Moscow from falling and Stalin resetting his administration behind the Ural.
Due to Moscow's irresponsible military doctrines the Soviet Army suffered horrendous losses. Due to the racist policy of Nazi-Germany millions of Soviet citizens were murdered or killed in this war - Stalin's own crimes and orders towards his own population at the same time caused additional millions of dead Soviet civilians.

The Soviet-Union never "contributed" - it simply fought for it's own survival and later for additional territorial gains. The UK fully contributed - because they stuck to their allegiance with Poland and thus were willing to go to war against Nazi-Germany. France fully contributed by declaring war onto Nazi-Germany, just their military and strategy sucked.

The US involvement in Africa and Europe from end 1942 onward - gave Stalin the chance hold onto the remaining Soviet territory. The huge blunder by Hitler in regards to Stalingrad and Kursk in 1943 enabled the Soviets to go into the offensive. This offensive again received a huge momentum upon the landing of the Allies in Italy, Normandy and southern France. Tito's offensive caused additional backup for the Soviets.

What reason did Stalin have to continue his offensives beyond the borders of the Soviet-Union? The involvement of the USA only provided him the basis to carry out his own planed expansion towards the West. He willingly lost millions of soldiers whilst "liberating" - occupying other countries who had been on his own agenda since the 30'ies. He could have simply worked out an armistice with Hitler upon regaining former Soviet territory - and demand reparations or whatever from Hitler.

Upon that simply watching as the USA would have overrun the Wehrmacht in the West and dropping nukes onto Germany in August 1945. But in such a scenario he couldn't have gotten his hands onto Eastern-Europe. Just for the prestigious Battle for Berlin he was willing to sacrifice more soldiers than he had lost in the previous 6 month. He didn't do anything to help the Polish resistance in 1944 but simply watched them getting slaughtered.

Just as if the US would have stooped shortly of liberating Paris - whilst watching the Wehrmacht annihilating French resistance.

Your statement in regards to supporting (more or less unconditionally) a US government's military action (war) that was obviously wrong to you - doesn't add up towards common sense. To support a governments wrong doings, especially a war, is WRONG. If one can do something about a governments wrong doings - would be a totally different issue.