Why on Earth should Insurance companies have to cover pre-existing conditions?

[Quantum Windbag]

Indeed, the number one reason for bankruptcy filings in the U.S.

This lie has been debunked already.

Really? Want to show us the data? And please, provide an impartial source. Not Fox News. Thank you.

Why should I? Are you going to come back and admit that Elizabeth Warren lied if I do?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No.

They should simply have to provide proof of being insured prior to buying a new policy.

The pre existing condition clause was actually a product of the greed of the consumer. Many would not buy health insurance unless they found they needed it. Such is why dental has the "6 month" clause...you cant use it for 6 months after you get a policy for emergencies such as root canal. Same as hurricane insurance. It does not go into affect for 30 days.

So it is simple....if you have insurance and want to change to another policy, the pre existing clause does not come into play.

Most polices covered preexisting conditions even without prior insurance, you just had to wait a few months to pay into the policy first.

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

Sigh.

Are you aware that it is impossible for a hospital emergency room to deny you treatment, even if you do not have insurance? In fact, that was one of the arguments in favor of the mandate that makes Obamacare what it is. that means that anyone with one of those problems can easily see a doctor to get treatment.

Idiots will be idiots.

 

[thereisnospoon]

When Obama first mentioned his plan to mandate insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions I said to my wife " that is theft. It's impossible."

But it also creates a situation that makes talk of governmental "death panels" nothing more than a cruel joke. If the insurance companies can't handle it, then the only solution is single-payer.

The fact is the Secretary of Health and Human Services has the absolute discretion over ACA.
That Law also creates a tone of bureaucracy. Decisions must be made at the administrative level. Some refer to these people as "gate keepers". The ACA will have layer upon layer of gate keeping. This will be done to control expenses.
In government, that is known as bureaucracy. Fit the pieces of the puzzle together.
Anyway, my concern was not the bureaucracy, it is the sheer cost to the system( taxpayers) to cover the losses of those with preexisting conditions.
In effect healthy people who do not use medical care on a regular basis will end up being punished. We will end up paying a far larger proportion of the cost of ACA. So not only do some of us end up paying our bill, but THEIR share as well.
Now you tell me where that appears right.

 

[kwc57]

No.

They should simply have to provide proof of being insured prior to buying a new policy.

The pre existing condition clause was actually a product of the greed of the consumer. Many would not buy health insurance unless they found they needed it. Such is why dental has the "6 month" clause...you cant use it for 6 months after you get a policy for emergencies such as root canal. Same as hurricane insurance. It does not go into affect for 30 days.

So it is simple....if you have insurance and want to change to another policy, the pre existing clause does not come into play.

Most polices covered preexisting conditions even without prior insurance, you just had to wait a few months to pay into the policy first.

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

Someone doesn't understand what health insurance is, do they? Insurance companies are not charities that exist to pay for your medical care when you decide you want their service after you are sick.

 

[konradv]

Most polices covered preexisting conditions even without prior insurance, you just had to wait a few months to pay into the policy first.

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

but you're willing to change your healthcare from corporate control to government control......?

there is a third way.....YOU control your healthcare....

Great! How many people have an extra 100 grand around for those really big ticket treatments?

 

[healthmyths]

Most polices covered preexisting conditions even without prior insurance, you just had to wait a few months to pay into the policy first.

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

Sigh.

Are you aware that it is impossible for a hospital emergency room to deny you treatment, even if you do not have insurance? In fact, that was one of the arguments in favor of the mandate that makes Obamacare what it is. that means that anyone with one of those problems can easily see a doctor to get treatment.

Idiots will be idiots.

It is called EMTALA!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

AND it is the number one reason Medicare is "OK" with hospitals marking up sometimes as much as 6,000% the claims they send to Medicare!
Florida Hospital Tampa
3100 East Fletcher Avenue
Tampa, FL 33613
Telephone Number: (813) 971-6000
Hospital Website: www.elevatinghealthcare.org/locatio...
CMS Certification Number: 100173

The above hospital was paid on 1,362 claims by Medicare an average of $3,463!
Medicare KNOWS the hospital's average cost to perform the service is $57!
So if the costs the hospital reports is $57.. all that expensive equipment etc....per claim
and dividing $3,463 the hospital was paid on average by Medicare by the average of $57 cost.. 6,075%!!!!!

And this is one of two gigantic 2,000 lb gorillas of health care... the other NO one seems to care about is the $850 billion a year in defensive medicine!

 

[konradv]

And this is one of two gigantic 2,000 lb gorillas of health care... the other NO one seems to care about is the $850 billion a year in defensive medicine!

So what's the answer, death panels?!?!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

but you're willing to change your healthcare from corporate control to government control......?

there is a third way.....YOU control your healthcare....

Great! How many people have an extra 100 grand around for those really big ticket treatments?

most people can afford a major medical policy....

and if the free market was allowed to work and prices dropped enough most could probably afford to pay for the big ticket items directly or take out a reasonable loan to pay for them....

 

[kwc57]

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

but you're willing to change your healthcare from corporate control to government control......?

there is a third way.....YOU control your healthcare....

Great! How many people have an extra 100 grand around for those really big ticket treatments?

The same as the number of insurance companies that have an extra 100 grand aroiund per new member that has never paid in. Insurance companies are not charities that exist to pay your expensive bills. They are pools of members who have paid in over time that pay out when you have a catastrophic health problem. You don't get to buy in for X amount of dollars per month when you have a chronic health issue and have them pay out XXXXXX amount per month. That's like walking up to the ticket office at a soldout concert and demanding front row tickets 10 minutes after the concert started.

 

[kwc57]

I'm proud to say this is in my home town.

Oklahoma Doctors vs. Obamacare - Reason.com

OCPA - Oklahoma Doctor Treats Health-Care Refugees...from Canada

 

[healthmyths]

And this is one of two gigantic 2,000 lb gorillas of health care... the other NO one seems to care about is the $850 billion a year in defensive medicine!

So what's the answer, death panels?!?!

TAX the lawyers!!!
Obamacare taxes tanning salons cause they cause cancer... put a 10% tax.. for something so inconsequential when the BIG gorilla $850 billion a year in defensive medicine that 90% of doctors attest they send duplicate tests, make specialists' referrals all out of fear of being sued!
Taxing 10% of the $250 billion a year lawyers make mostly from healthcare,etc.. and use that to pay the premiums for the truly uninsured of which there are truly only 8 million! As Obama has lied consistently with 50 million "uninsured" when 10 million are not citizens, 14 million ALREADY covered by Medicaid and 18 million don't need, don't want at under 34 yr and making over $50k pay out of pocket an average of $1,000 for health services.
That leaves 8 million!

The 8 million that then go to emergency rooms are registered with the Uninsured Health Insurance Corp (UHIC) set up as a for profit that gets premiums from the $25 billion a year in taxes on lawyers!
So when the uninsured now register goes to emergency room hospital won't "pad and pass" to recover they will send the claims to UHIC!

Thus killing with one stone two birds... reducing the $850 billion in defensive medicine and preventing hospitals from padding and passing on
unreimbursed expenses i.e. the uninsured... because they are billing the above UHIC!
The other bird i.e. $850 billion would be reduced because it's reduction is tied to the 10% tax i.e. as $850 billion goes down.. so too the tax % on
lawyers $250 billion income!!!

That simple!!

 

[thereisnospoon]

Tell that to someone who discovers a suspicious lump on their body, or has bleeding in places where there should be no blood. Tell them they have to fucking wait to see a doctor so an insurance company can make money off of them. People who buy into their healthcare relying on corporate bottom lines and a board of directors are total idiots.

but you're willing to change your healthcare from corporate control to government control......?

there is a third way.....YOU control your healthcare....

Great! How many people have an extra 100 grand around for those really big ticket treatments?

Precisely why health insurers should be permitted to sell high deductible catastrophic loss policies. Currently these are not permitted.
I believe there used to be polices called "major medical".. Which were used to cover serious issues such as surgeries and other major procedures.

 

[Billo_Really]

Some people seem to have a very strange view of what insurance companies do. They point to the problem of people who have a pre-existing condition, trying to sign up for new insurance, only to find the insurance companies won't pay for the the treatment for that pre-existing condition.

Of course they won't. That's not what insurance companies do. Whoever said they did?

Insurance is a gambling game where you bet on what will happen in the future. You "bet" that you will get sick or injured, and the company "bets" that you won't. If you get sick or injured, the company pays you the stipulated amount (paying for a portion of your medical treatment etc.), and if you don't, you pay them (premiums). The purpose is to shield you from the "shock" of suddenly and unexpectedly getting hit with huge medical bills... which is why you agreed to the contract.

A pre-existing condition cannot be insured against. It's like betting on the outcome of a horse race that's already been run - there is no "chance" involved, and no "unexpectedness" to the outcome (any more). Or like trying to get car insurance after wrecking your car.

Insurance companies are in the business of selling security - the assurance that you won't be suddenly bankrupted by huge medical bills, rehab bills etc. in the future. They do it by insuring huge numbers of people and getting them to each pay relatively small amounts (their premiums) each. They and their clients all know that most of them will never incur the huge medical bills they are worried about. But since no one knows which few people WILL incur them, they are all happy to pay the premiums, for the knowledge they won't have to pay the huge amounts if they turn out to be the unlucky ones.

Insurance companies sell safety from FUTURE possible disasters. And that's all they sell. Asking them to cover pre-existing conditions, is like asking a submarine designer to design a supersonic jet - it's got nothing to do with his business or his area of expertise, and he never volunteered to design jets in the first place, for good reason.

If you want to set up some kind of universal pool to pay for pre-existing conditions, fine, go ahead. But why drag insurance companies into it? It's got nothing to do with their areas of expertise, and they never volunteered to do it in the first place - for good reason.

Why pay insurance companies for "no coverage"?

I can do that on my own.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

I have received medical care in Canada. And Mexico. And Chile. And I understand all too well why the World Health Organization ranks us 37th in the world.

You sure do get sick alot.
The WHO is an anti US organization.
Oh, you are free to move to one of those countries.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Indeed, the number one reason for bankruptcy filings in the U.S.

This lie has been debunked already.

Really? Want to show us the data? And please, provide an impartial source. Not Fox News. Thank you.

HA! So the OP should use a liberally biased source. Just so the deck is stacked in YOUR favor?

 

[LilOlLady]

Because on earth people grow old when they have to work 50 years to retire and may go from job to job carrying any illness they may have with them? Maybe the past insurance coverage should be responsible for the illness that occured under that coverage? New cars and old cars are covered by old problems that exist with the car. Insurance co. don't refuse to cover old cars. Medicare cover existing illness and so should you health care.

Some people are born with existing illness and work and how do you suggest they are covered?

I may be wrong, but isn't the meaning of "health care" taking care of "health" issues? A person that never get sick don't need HC insurance. but that person don't exist on earth. But if you have no legs you will never have to worry about pre existing knee problems and knee replacements.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Because on earth people grow old when they have to work 50 years to retire and may go from job to job carrying any illness they may have with them? Maybe the past insurance coverage should be responsible for the illness that occured under that coverage? New cars and old cars are covered by old problems that exist with the car. Insurance co. don't refuse to cover old cars. Medicare cover existing illness and so should you health care.

Some people are born with existing illness and work and how do you suggest they are covered?

Holy shit....face palm

 

[Redfish]

Because on earth people grow old when they have to work 50 years to retire and may go from job to job carrying any illness they may have with them? Maybe the past insurance coverage should be responsible for the illness that occured under that coverage? New cars and old cars are covered by old problems that exist with the car. Insurance co. don't refuse to cover old cars. Medicare cover existing illness and so should you health care.

Some people are born with existing illness and work and how do you suggest they are covered?

Those are the cases where the govt should step in. But the 95% of people that do not have life long illnesses should be able to buy insurance at reasonable prices.

I have been around a while and can remember when insurance only covered hospital visits, you paid for your sore throats and acne out of your own pocket. Prescriptions were rarely more than $10 and somehow doctors and drug companies still made good money.

The change came about when we began to believe that insurance should cover 100% of our medical expenses. When you have no skin in the game, you think about the game very differently

 

[Redfish]

Because on earth people grow old when they have to work 50 years to retire and may go from job to job carrying any illness they may have with them? Maybe the past insurance coverage should be responsible for the illness that occured under that coverage? New cars and old cars are covered by old problems that exist with the car. Insurance co. don't refuse to cover old cars. Medicare cover existing illness and so should you health care.

Some people are born with existing illness and work and how do you suggest they are covered?

Holy shit....face palm

be nice now, she may have that dreaded lifelong defective liberal gene disease. There is no cure and the facilities for the mentally ill cannot hold all of them.

 

[healthmyths]

Because on earth people grow old when they have to work 50 years to retire and may go from job to job carrying any illness they may have with them? Maybe the past insurance coverage should be responsible for the illness that occured under that coverage? New cars and old cars are covered by old problems that exist with the car. Insurance co. don't refuse to cover old cars. Medicare cover existing illness and so should you health care.

Some people are born with existing illness and work and how do you suggest they are covered?

Those are the cases where the govt should step in. But the 95% of people that do not have life long illnesses should be able to buy insurance at reasonable prices.

I have been around a while and can remember when insurance only covered hospital visits, you paid for your sore throats and acne out of your own pocket. Prescriptions were rarely more than $10 and somehow doctors and drug companies still made good money.

The change came about when we began to believe that insurance should cover 100% of our medical expenses. When you have no skin in the game, you think about the game very differently

AND before lawyers advertised on TV to sue doctors for every little mistake!
As a result physicians attest over $850 billion a year in duplicate tests,etc.. all because they don't want to be sued and they know companies will pay!


In a recent Gallup survey, physicians attributed 34 percent of overall healthcare costs to defensive medicine and 21 percent of their practice to be defensive in nature. Specifically, they estimated that 35 percent of diagnostic tests, 29 percent of lab tests, 19 percent of hospitalizations, 14 percent of prescriptions, and 8 percent of surgeries were performed to avoid lawsuits.

Liability reform has been estimated to result in anywhere from a 5 percent to a 34 percent reduction in medical expenditures by reducing defensive medicine practices, with estimates of savings from $54 billion to $650 billion.
The costs of defensive medicine