Why on Earth should Insurance companies have to cover pre-existing conditions?

[Political Junky]

Not only do insurance companies refuse to cover pre-existing conditions, but if you develop an illness they don't like they can cancel your policy.

 

[Redfish]

Because on earth people grow old when they have to work 50 years to retire and may go from job to job carrying any illness they may have with them? Maybe the past insurance coverage should be responsible for the illness that occured under that coverage? New cars and old cars are covered by old problems that exist with the car. Insurance co. don't refuse to cover old cars. Medicare cover existing illness and so should you health care.

Some people are born with existing illness and work and how do you suggest they are covered?

Those are the cases where the govt should step in. But the 95% of people that do not have life long illnesses should be able to buy insurance at reasonable prices.

I have been around a while and can remember when insurance only covered hospital visits, you paid for your sore throats and acne out of your own pocket. Prescriptions were rarely more than $10 and somehow doctors and drug companies still made good money.

The change came about when we began to believe that insurance should cover 100% of our medical expenses. When you have no skin in the game, you think about the game very differently

AND before lawyers advertised on TV to sue doctors for every little mistake!
As a result physicians attest over $850 billion a year in duplicate tests,etc.. all because they don't want to be sued and they know companies will pay!


In a recent Gallup survey, physicians attributed 34 percent of overall healthcare costs to defensive medicine and 21 percent of their practice to be defensive in nature. Specifically, they estimated that 35 percent of diagnostic tests, 29 percent of lab tests, 19 percent of hospitalizations, 14 percent of prescriptions, and 8 percent of surgeries were performed to avoid lawsuits.

Liability reform has been estimated to result in anywhere from a 5 percent to a 34 percent reduction in medical expenditures by reducing defensive medicine practices, with estimates of savings from $54 billion to $650 billion.
The costs of defensive medicine

Yes, I blame a lot of it on greedy lawyers. We need tort reform on medical malpractice, limits on settlements, and loser pays court costs

 

[Redfish]

Not only do insurance companies refuse to cover pre-existing conditions, but if you develop an illness they don't like they can cancel your policy.

I think that is one of the few good things about obamacare, they cannot drop you and there is no limit on lifetime benefit payments---------but, that will make everyone's premiums go up, you want more-you pay more.

 

[healthmyths]

Which is WHY i'm actively promoting the concept that Obama supported in Obamacare.. but he went after those TREMENDOUS cost drivers.. TANNING SALONS!

Yup... 10% tax on the tanning salons cause they are a cause of cancer!

NO where was there any discussion of a 10% tax on the $250 billion lawyers make from causing the $850 billion in defensive medicine.. fear of lawsuits that doctors attest motivate them to write duplicate tests, etc...

And how well has the tanning tax worked out??

The Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated this half-baked tax would raise less than $50 million in the last 3 months of fiscal year 2010
and $200 million for fiscal year 2011.

But the tanning tax brought in only $54.4 million in the first three quarters it has been in effect.
Treasury Finds Tanning Tax Collections Lacking - Forbes
This means instead of $200 million it will bring in total of $72 million and they expected $200 million!
Once again this administration is so f...king stupid when it comes to businesses, projections..etc...

Remember this administration head man once said..
Obama said: " And if we are able to slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of 1 percent each year --
one-tenth of 1 percent -- it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term."

The long term because Obama is so math deficient is 1,600 years!!!!

 

[rdean]

Somehow cons can rationalize paying those salaries, as well as their high premiums, all in the name of free enterprise.

Not just in health care. 50 or 60 years ago, a CEO's pay averaged about 30 or 40 times the salary of the average worker. They paid more taxes. More people were employed.

Now they make 300 to 400 times the average worker or more. Republicans think if we can just pay them more and redistribute more wealth to them, they will "create jobs" because they are the "job creators". We just haven't moved quite enough money into their pockets. Oh, but it will happen. Just keep shoveling it their way.

And in the top 5 of CEO's like that, was one that WE bailed out, who BTW< has yet to pay us back. Ceo's should make they want. It is THEIR company. If they want to hoard their money, so be it. Like I said, it is THEIRS. NOt that any of you libs know what that means. Why don't you ask USPS chairman why he makes 400,000 a year and they are cutting jobs, delivery days etc

Pretty hilarious you should say that when over on the "Postal Thread":

Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (2006; 109th Congress H.R. 6407) - GovTrack.us

Hmmmm 2 dem co-sponsors..

Just how stupid are American Postal workers and other leftists? | Steve Bussey



Votes: Dec 8, 2006: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by voice vote. A record of each representative’s position was not kept.
Cosponsors:
Danny Davis [D-IL7]
John McHugh [R-NY23]
Henry Waxman [D-CA30]

Dec 9, 2006: This bill passed in the Senate by Unanimous Consent. A record of each senator’s position was not kept.

In 2006 the Dems held the Senate

The 109th Congress from 2005 to 2007 had 44 Democrats and 55 Republicans and one Independent in the Senate. More GOP "math".

--------------------------------------------------------------

See, there's no way to debate with you because you whistle out your butt. You can't debate with someone who is lying or doesn't even know how to use Google to find out the truth. Not everything on the Internet is true, you prove that, but not everything is a lie either.

 

[rdean]

OH what a dumb fucking statement...
WHAT city do you live in?
I will bet you $1,000 that the largest hospital in your city Overcharges Medicare easily 300% maybe 6,000% and because idiots like have no clue how medicare works!

For example I have access to all the Medicare payments made to 6,000 hospitals and I can tell you for a FACT in this example over 6,000% overcharge to Medicare by the hospital!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged: $2,635 which is what was billed by the hospital to Medicare...
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $43 a mark up 6,127.91%

6,127% MARKUP over costs! THIS IS REAL money being spent by Medicare and ALL because total idiots like you have NO clue specifically to a law passed in 1986 called EMTALA.
If you were smart enough you'd look it up but you aren't so here it is!!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

So this is why hospitals charge sometimes 6,000% above costs! Because idiots didn't think EMTALA through... just as they haven't thought Obamacare through!

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

YOU said "No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated."


IDIOT HERE is the table that I got that information from:

Look at this screen shot from the report I have for
Florida Hospital Tampa
3100 East Fletcher Avenue
Tampa, FL 33613
Telephone Number: (813) 971-6000
Hospital Website: www.elevatinghealthcare.org/locatio...
CMS Certification Number: 100173

What you are looking at in the below colored row is the CT without Contrast
The above hospital was paid on 1,362 claims by Medicare an average of $3,463!
Medicare KNOWS the hospital's average cost to perform the service is $57!
So if the costs the hospital reports is $57.. all that expensive equipment etc....per claim
and dividing $3,463 the hospital was paid on average by Medicare by the average of $57 cost.. 6,075%!!!!!

YOU tell me differently OK.. This information comes from this source:
Medicare OPPS claims data are for calendar year ending 12/31/2011.

View attachment 24540

Profile Definitions and Methodology

Outpatient Utilization Statistics by APC


All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Hospital OPPS Identifiable Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the service year (i.e. calendar year). The file includes hospital outpatient billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for outpatient services provided during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is consistent with CMS Data Release policies.

Information is reported for the twenty Ambulatory Payment Classifications (APCs) representing the highest Medicare payment to the hospital. APCs are defined by the procedures performed according to definitions published by CMS for the corresponding service year.
A list of APCs is provided for reference.
Note that the Number of Patient Claims may be less than the Units of Service provided (i.e. one claim may include multiple units of service for a procedure).
Average Charges are based on both covered and non-covered charges for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
Average Costs are based on charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio.

DO YOU KNOW UNDERSTAND how stupid,complicated,convoluted, DESTRUCTIVE Obamacare is IF right NOW Medicare agrees to a 6,000% Markup!!!

Hello, knock knock. Duh!

A service contract is used to continue revenue.

But you can't use that as the "cost" of operating such a piece of equipment. I'm sure you realize your mistake. Only a completely brain damaged drooling moron would think such a thing. Just the cost of paying the operator for one 20 minute scan has to be between 50 and 150 bucks. Then you add in the cost of the building. The temperature and humidity control, the administrative costs and on and on and the cost skyrockets. Who doesn't know that?

 

[rdean]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

I have received medical care in Canada. And Mexico. And Chile. And I understand all too well why the World Health Organization ranks us 37th in the world.

Because you are just as stupid as they are?

The simple fact that any rational look at the health care system in those country ranks it as one of the best in the world. The US reports a lot of data that other countries do not report, including infant mortality rates that include premature babies that live for less than 30 minutes.

You're just blowing that out your ass. Not backing it up with anything. As usual.

 

[rdean]

OH what a dumb fucking statement...
WHAT city do you live in?
I will bet you $1,000 that the largest hospital in your city Overcharges Medicare easily 300% maybe 6,000% and because idiots like have no clue how medicare works!

For example I have access to all the Medicare payments made to 6,000 hospitals and I can tell you for a FACT in this example over 6,000% overcharge to Medicare by the hospital!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged: $2,635 which is what was billed by the hospital to Medicare...
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $43 a mark up 6,127.91%

6,127% MARKUP over costs! THIS IS REAL money being spent by Medicare and ALL because total idiots like you have NO clue specifically to a law passed in 1986 called EMTALA.
If you were smart enough you'd look it up but you aren't so here it is!!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

So this is why hospitals charge sometimes 6,000% above costs! Because idiots didn't think EMTALA through... just as they haven't thought Obamacare through!

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

5 pages to get to the real reason why parasites and slugs want Obamacare..Class warfare..
Dino, you dumb fuck. When a person working in an industry tells you the facts, you then out of hand dismiss them with a lead in to an unrelated matter, it is YOU who end up looking full of shit.
The fact is, many things dispensed by medical professionals and medical facilities have very low costs. It is necessary for the provider to bill in such large amounts because the write off can be as much as 50% or even 75%. The write off is defined as the difference between what the provider charges vs what the insurer pays the provider. So, if the provider bills $1 and the provider pays the provider 40 cents, the write off is 60%. That's pretty typical.

I'm not sure what your are writing because it sounds like you are fucking crazy.

You said:

The fact is, many things dispensed by medical professionals and medical facilities have very low costs.

So what do health care companies do? They don't employ doctors or rent hospitals. They are middle men. They skim money off policies for profit. They aren't doctors, or nurses.

In fact, I bet ALL right wingers don't even know part of Obamacare is that a LIMIT is placed on the percentage these HC companies can profit. Obamacare FORCES them use more of that money on patients and not on dividends. I can hear Republicans going "GASP" and thinking, "Use more of the money on patients? Fuck 'em, let them die".

 

[rdean]

Somehow cons can rationalize paying those salaries, as well as their high premiums, all in the name of free enterprise.

Not just in health care. 50 or 60 years ago, a CEO's pay averaged about 30 or 40 times the salary of the average worker. They paid more taxes. More people were employed.

Now they make 300 to 400 times the average worker or more. Republicans think if we can just pay them more and redistribute more wealth to them, they will "create jobs" because they are the "job creators". We just haven't moved quite enough money into their pockets. Oh, but it will happen. Just keep shoveling it their way.

A) He received $1.1 million in salary, $2.75 million in incentive pay, an additional
$2.3 million in pension value and other compensation of $299,838. a total of $6.1 million SALARY incentive and other compensations!
Being obviously IGNORANT as you read the above "Unexercised Options.. as a salary... it is NOT he has to pay out of his pocket to buy
that stock at a discount THAT's if he EXERCISES his options!

Idiot IT IS NOT paid out of operating expenses you dummy!!!!
His total salary deducted and paid out of operating expense is $ 6 million!

I can't believe you are defending this. 6 million is the bare minimum. Say he did only get 6 million a year. In 10 years, that's 60 million. Well we know it's a lot more because he is in the top ten of Forbes' "$100 Million CEO Club." You're not in that club on a measly 6 million a year.

And explain to me. What is he doing for that huge salary???? He is a middle man. He takes some of that money and pays doctors and nurses and keeps the rest. People are paying for nothing. And Republicans call that "capitalism". It's a "SCAM". It's not capitalism. It's DEATH PANELS, it's not capitalism. Try to figure out why.

 

[mudwhistle]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

One problem with that.......Canada isn't run by criminals.

It'll never work as long as we have crooks running the program. Obama made a deal with pharmaceutical companies which allows them to sell dangerous drugs on the market without oversight from the FDA and not have to deal with cross-state competition helping send prices through the roof. Obamacare is a way of using health care to look over our shoulders, essentially dictate our lifestyles. They even tried to use it to get guns out of our homes.

 

[healthmyths]

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

YOU said "No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated."


IDIOT HERE is the table that I got that information from:

Look at this screen shot from the report I have for
Florida Hospital Tampa
3100 East Fletcher Avenue
Tampa, FL 33613
Telephone Number: (813) 971-6000
Hospital Website: www.elevatinghealthcare.org/locatio...
CMS Certification Number: 100173

What you are looking at in the below colored row is the CT without Contrast
The above hospital was paid on 1,362 claims by Medicare an average of $3,463!
Medicare KNOWS the hospital's average cost to perform the service is $57!
So if the costs the hospital reports is $57.. all that expensive equipment etc....per claim
and dividing $3,463 the hospital was paid on average by Medicare by the average of $57 cost.. 6,075%!!!!!

YOU tell me differently OK.. This information comes from this source:
Medicare OPPS claims data are for calendar year ending 12/31/2011.

View attachment 24540

Profile Definitions and Methodology

Outpatient Utilization Statistics by APC


All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Hospital OPPS Identifiable Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the service year (i.e. calendar year). The file includes hospital outpatient billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for outpatient services provided during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is consistent with CMS Data Release policies.

Information is reported for the twenty Ambulatory Payment Classifications (APCs) representing the highest Medicare payment to the hospital. APCs are defined by the procedures performed according to definitions published by CMS for the corresponding service year.
A list of APCs is provided for reference.
Note that the Number of Patient Claims may be less than the Units of Service provided (i.e. one claim may include multiple units of service for a procedure).
Average Charges are based on both covered and non-covered charges for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
Average Costs are based on charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio.

DO YOU KNOW UNDERSTAND how stupid,complicated,convoluted, DESTRUCTIVE Obamacare is IF right NOW Medicare agrees to a 6,000% Markup!!!

Hello, knock knock. Duh!

A service contract is used to continue revenue.

But you can't use that as the "cost" of operating such a piece of equipment. I'm sure you realize your mistake. Only a completely brain damaged drooling moron would think such a thing. Just the cost of paying the operator for one 20 minute scan has to be between 50 and 150 bucks. Then you add in the cost of the building. The temperature and humidity control, the administrative costs and on and on and the cost skyrockets. Who doesn't know that?

HELLO... IDiOT you have NO IDEA of what the costs are do you? Yet you could have done what I did and a little research shows the cost to do
per hour 24 hours/7 days a week 52 weeks is $94/hour..! NOW dumb ass. here is how that breaks down.. EASY to find if you are a dumb shiTT
Operating and Ownership Costs
Service contract, including x-ray tube, years 2 through 5 = $137,836/year

Salary and expenses for three full-time equivalents = $231,000/year

Contrast media = $500,500 /year
Total operating costs = $720,350 for year 1; an average of $823,969/year for years 2 through 5
Source of data: https://www.ecri.org/Documents/HPCS_Scanning_Systems.pdf

Average operating cost,contract,salary,media.. $823,969.

They operate 24 hour a day 7 days a week 52 weeks per year.. operating costs therefore per hour: $94/ hour!
If they do two test per hour the costs are $47 per test!!

NOW you dumb fucking idiot!!!
If the system costs $47 per test and they charge $3,436 Medicare.. WHAT THE F...K markup is THAT you dumb ASS!

7,311%!!!

 

[healthmyths]

It is absolutely incredible how easy it is to get ANSWERS without GUESSING as the above idiot has shown!
It took me less then 10 minutes to find out that the hourly operating costs for a CT scan is $94/hour.
If the hospital I used did two per hour their costs is $47 per test!
They charge Medicare/or your insurance company $3,000 for the test that cost $47!

What does it take people to do a little research and realize your Government is totally snowing you!
Obamacare is using Medicare as a MODEL of how efficiently Obamacare cut costs?

Remember Obama said we'd cut the deficit by 4 trillion dollars over 1,600 years!!
He said if you like your plan you can keep your plan!
He said there were 50 million "uninsured"!

ALL of the above are examples of Obama's absolute IGNORANCE!

 

[francoHFW]

And more fraud caught last year than ever before. It's over for them. Watch. That was under the Pub system, as always.

 

[initforme]

in the end as a nation we dont believe that all citizens have access to good health care correct? Seems like those who are against all having health care need to step up and simply state that only certain american citizens should be treated. How the heck else can you phrase it?

 

[francoHFW]

No, Masscare and every other modern country show how this saves money, on Medicare too.

 

[percysunshine]

Insurance companiies are in the business of making sure that rdeans stupidity does not cost me any money.

So far, they are doing a good job.

 

[francoHFW]

Until Pubs allow a good work/ID card, illegals might as well be citizens. In 2007 94% of male illegals worked, 67% paid taxes, and 35% owned homes.

 

[francoHFW]

Insurance companiys are in the business of making sure that rdeans stupidity does not cost me any money.

So far, they are doing a good job.

Sure, that's why our health costs are double other modern countries, with worse results.

 

[percysunshine]

Insurance companiys are in the business of making sure that rdeans stupidity does not cost me any money.

So far, they are doing a good job.

Sure, that's why our health costs are double other modern countries, with worse results.

You are giving rdean alot of credit there...

 

[g5000]

No, Masscare and every other modern country show how this saves money, on Medicare too.

You are so full of shit. I spanked you in the other topic and proved that Massachusetts has the highest health insurance premiums in the country.

And your claim that their rates are only rising at 2% a year is bogus as well.

Mass. approves hike in health insurance rates

State regulators Friday approved health insurance rates that will boost premiums for small businesses and individuals an average of 3.6 percent in the first quarter of 2013, continuing an increase in health insurance rates that began over the summer.

As for Massachusett's health care costs:

The state continues to struggle with rising health care costs. State health reform in 2006 purposefully focused on expanding coverage to residents while leaving the thornier task of cost containment for future years. As a result, affordability continues to be an issue. Per capita health spending is 15% higher than the national average and although premium growth has slowed in recent years,Massachusetts has the highest individual market premiums in the country. Legislation focused on comprehensive provider payment reform and endorsed by the Governor is currently pending in the state&#8217;s legislature.

Sorry to blow your pathetic little delusion to pieces.