Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Wry Catcher]

so say all Nazis and concentration camp advocates.

I'm neither.... it's a joke and I'm not advocating sterilization, just the use of BC.

I think we all knew you were joking.

When I've suggested that women on welfare be fixed in order to get it, idiots claim I'm suggesting genocide. That's not true. If you don't ask for welfare I'll never ask you to get fixed. But if you want the free money you have to cut out your baby maker. Its only genocide if 100% of the woman decide they want the free money.

That is a shite argument. Why the woman and not the man ? Its still a shite argument.

They need to seriously go after the dad too.

All these foodstampers and welfare bums are going to eventually want social security. I hope they keep track of welfare and food stamps and take it off the back end. That might mean some people can't retire till 70. Then I wouldn't mind giving welfare. If you want to draw SS at 45 for a year then you can't retire till 66.

Once again AFDC went bye-by two decades or so ago. It was replaced by TANF, which puts restrictions on those receiving aid as well as requirements. Within those parameters states can employ their own rule, and in CA one of those rules denies to renew the Driver's License of those men behind in their child care payments, these men are also filed upon and tried in a criminal case, where jail time can and is imposed for the deadbeats.

Social Security is an earned entitlement, if someone never worked, they do receive a check from that account. In the case of a mother, it is not uncommon for this to be the case, and that is why there is a work requirement. See:
California CalWORKs (TANF) | Benefits.gov

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I think they want poor people breeding poor kids that one day the corporations can hire cheap. Also to fill fews.

But you are wrong about the pill being the best. Iud's are way more effective.

As a new Republican I would say the woman who's sexually active and poor has a choice to make. Why do we pay for free birth control? Because it saves us money. Welfare and food stamps and free insurance we give these mistakes. Not to mention crime.

Republicans need to realize birth control saves us money and lowers abortions

But it doesn't. Birth control is already almost free, yet here we are. Then there are all the other issues especially with IUD's that would need to be addressed that jacks up the cost of insurance.

The States With the Highest Teenage Birth Rates Have One Thing in Common

There's countless articles and studies here that conclude the same thing. Better sex ed+Better availability to birth control=lower pregnancy risk. The states teaching abstinence only are the ones with the highest pregnancy rates and worst STD infection rates. So it works, and works well.

So again, why are we being stupid about this as a people? If you don't pay for the birth control, you'll pay for the kid one way or another. Either through welfare, education, or incarceration. So go the cheaper route and pay for birth control.

Cheaper for those who get it, but we folks who work have to pay more. Birth control is already cheap. You need only go to PPH website and look.

You are already paying. I do not understand how you fail to get this.

If a teen gets pregnant and goes to the hospital to give birth, chances are she won't be able to pay for the procedure. The hospital will be passing that cost on to you when you do come in for help. Or they'll pass it on to your insurance when others on your plan come in for help which will be passed on to you in the form of higher premiums.

Forget welfare, when that kid gets to school age YOU WILL PAY for his education through property taxes, or higher rents, or higher business costs when they have higher property taxes.

Unwed mothers frequently live in poverty and poverty is the single greatest indicator for a likelyhood to become incarcerated. When that kid becomes incarcerated, YOU WILL PAY to arrest him, try him, and lock him up in higher taxes.

At every single damn point of the kids life YOU WILL PAY for what happens because we as a people were too cheap to provide birth control. So stop being cheap and take the cheapest out. Pay for birth control.

If a teen go's to a clinic that treats VD we absorb that cost of prolonged treatment of that disease. So your IUD and pills do nothing here. The cost is still there. Then there is the IUD and pills. Most of the chicks I now hate the little wire things and that form of birth control has a bunch of side affects so our gal hits the ER and there are those costs again. No way out of spending the money really. all that aside, birth control is already extremely getable at an extremely low price.

Again, I'm in favor of condoms and the pill. IUD devices need more research. They're effective, but yeah, there's the possibility of long term side effects. We did a lot of research prior to marriage and ended up with going the pill+condom route to prevent unwanted pregnancies early on in the marriage.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I'm neither.... it's a joke and I'm not advocating sterilization, just the use of BC.

I think we all knew you were joking.

When I've suggested that women on welfare be fixed in order to get it, idiots claim I'm suggesting genocide. That's not true. If you don't ask for welfare I'll never ask you to get fixed. But if you want the free money you have to cut out your baby maker. Its only genocide if 100% of the woman decide they want the free money.

That is a shite argument. Why the woman and not the man ? Its still a shite argument.

They need to seriously go after the dad too.

All these foodstampers and welfare bums are going to eventually want social security. I hope they keep track of welfare and food stamps and take it off the back end. That might mean some people can't retire till 70. Then I wouldn't mind giving welfare. If you want to draw SS at 45 for a year then you can't retire till 66.

Once again AFDC went bye-by two decades or so ago. It was replaced by TANF, which puts restrictions on those receiving aid as well as requirements. Within those parameters states can employ their own rule, and in CA one of those rules denies to renew the Driver's License of those men behind in their child care payments, these men are also filed upon and tried in a criminal case, where jail time can and is imposed for the deadbeats.

Social Security is an earned entitlement, if someone never worked, they do receive a check from that account. In the case of a mother, it is not uncommon for this to be the case, and that is why there is a work requirement. See:
California CalWORKs (TANF) | Benefits.gov

Yeah, I'm also in favor of this. There should be super harsh penalties for deadbeat dads. The problem is there are some states where it isn't hard to get away with being a deadbeat dad.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm neither.... it's a joke and I'm not advocating sterilization, just the use of BC.

I think we all knew you were joking.

When I've suggested that women on welfare be fixed in order to get it, idiots claim I'm suggesting genocide. That's not true. If you don't ask for welfare I'll never ask you to get fixed. But if you want the free money you have to cut out your baby maker. Its only genocide if 100% of the woman decide they want the free money.

That is a shite argument. Why the woman and not the man ? Its still a shite argument.

They need to seriously go after the dad too.

All these foodstampers and welfare bums are going to eventually want social security. I hope they keep track of welfare and food stamps and take it off the back end. That might mean some people can't retire till 70. Then I wouldn't mind giving welfare. If you want to draw SS at 45 for a year then you can't retire till 66.

Once again AFDC went bye-by two decades or so ago. It was replaced by TANF, which puts restrictions on those receiving aid as well as requirements. Within those parameters states can employ their own rule, and in CA one of those rules denies to renew the Driver's License of those men behind in their child care payments, these men are also filed upon and tried in a criminal case, where jail time can and is imposed for the deadbeats.

Social Security is an earned entitlement, if someone never worked, they do receive a check from that account. In the case of a mother, it is not uncommon for this to be the case, and that is why there is a work requirement. See:
California CalWORKs (TANF) | Benefits.gov

I know an old Greek guy who's wife died. He went to Greece and married a greek woman for one purpose. HIS SOCIAL SECURITY. He willed everything he owns to his 2 daughters but when he dies his wife will keep getting paid by uncle sam till she dies. It's not right.

 

[sealybobo]

I think we all knew you were joking.

When I've suggested that women on welfare be fixed in order to get it, idiots claim I'm suggesting genocide. That's not true. If you don't ask for welfare I'll never ask you to get fixed. But if you want the free money you have to cut out your baby maker. Its only genocide if 100% of the woman decide they want the free money.

That is a shite argument. Why the woman and not the man ? Its still a shite argument.

They need to seriously go after the dad too.

All these foodstampers and welfare bums are going to eventually want social security. I hope they keep track of welfare and food stamps and take it off the back end. That might mean some people can't retire till 70. Then I wouldn't mind giving welfare. If you want to draw SS at 45 for a year then you can't retire till 66.

Once again AFDC went bye-by two decades or so ago. It was replaced by TANF, which puts restrictions on those receiving aid as well as requirements. Within those parameters states can employ their own rule, and in CA one of those rules denies to renew the Driver's License of those men behind in their child care payments, these men are also filed upon and tried in a criminal case, where jail time can and is imposed for the deadbeats.

Social Security is an earned entitlement, if someone never worked, they do receive a check from that account. In the case of a mother, it is not uncommon for this to be the case, and that is why there is a work requirement. See:
California CalWORKs (TANF) | Benefits.gov

Yeah, I'm also in favor of this. There should be super harsh penalties for deadbeat dads. The problem is there are some states where it isn't hard to get away with being a deadbeat dad.

And don't put them in prison. That'll just cost us even more money. If they REFUSE to work out in the free world put them on a chain gang breaking rocks or building Trump's wall. And have their paychecks go directly to their kids.

 

[Cecilie1200]

mm

"Without a strong commitment to marriage as a life goal and as an essential gift

to children, today’s teenagers find it much harder to come up with good reasons to

say “no” to sex, to use birth control conscientiously, to avoid men who are not good

marriage candidates, or to consider adoption when marriage is not advisable."

http://americanvalues.org/catalog/pdfs/ageofunwedmothers.pdf

And? I'm not arguing against teaching children these things.

You still haven't addressed the issue with your OP, which is that if you don't want the feds to pay for birth control, you are "anti-birth control".

When will you stop lying, pudding?

Personally, I'm very in favor of people using birth control. The more time I spend around humans, the more in favor of it I become.

Doesn't mean I want to pay for it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But the problem is - abstinence works, but abstinence only programs don't. And the reason is - kids will have sex. They don't enter into unprotected sex thinking - ok, I might get her pregnant/get pregnant. There's a lot of wrong information out there about sex and pregnancy readily available. I'd rather they have a reliable responsible "Plan B" to fall back on - if you are bound and determined to have sex, then be protected and part of that Plan B is making birth control easily available.

Another thing to consider here is that you can make "birth control" as "free" and "easily available" as you want. But there will be women out there who will simply, flat out not want it. They want to take that risk without considering the consequences (either positive or negative) in relation to it. An unborn child is both a positive consequence and a negative one. Positive for being planned, negative for being "unplanned." However, my opinion is that if you, as a perfectly healthy young woman, take that risk and reject any medically approved method of birth control (short of abortion), then you should bear (literally) the negative consequence of your decision.

I'm a strong believer in rewards and punishments, or acts and consequences. When a woman uses birth control, it only gives her an out to keep engaging in the same sexual behavior that got her pregnant in the first place. Hence, abstinence. If married, family planning. It's not hard. I know, because I was an unplanned pregnancy, and a bastard child. I had to reconcile myself with my religious views on pre-marital sex. That's why I now encourage abstinence and self-control.

Why the woman and not the man ?

Two reasons. First, because birth control used by the woman offers a much wider variety of choices available, and is almost always more effective. Two, because biology dictates that it is the woman who has much more at stake when it comes to pregnancy and the prevention of same.

Which is not to say that condom use should not still be in play, even when other methods of birth control are also used, both because it offers protection from disease as well, and because it's a bad idea to trust your future to another person to that extent.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yeah, teenagers are a real conundrum. I've known a lot of mature teenagers that still end up pregnant. I've known a lot of very very immature ones that don't. The difference? The immature one was taught about birth control, the mature one wasn't.

Well, that doesn't jibe. Being the "mature" teenager would also include the possibility of being taught the importance of "birth control," that such maturity would preclude such ignorance. The best form of birth control is to encourage and educate them to employ a healthy thought process which includes exercising better judgement regarding sexual activity.

Education doesn't always have to mean buying birth control. Abstinence is free, and it can be taught at a very early age, when children are the most impressionable.

"Mature teenager". Isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yeah, teenagers are a real conundrum. I've known a lot of mature teenagers that still end up pregnant. I've known a lot of very very immature ones that don't. The difference? The immature one was taught about birth control, the mature one wasn't.

Well, that doesn't jibe. Being the "mature" teenager would also include the possibility of being taught the importance of "birth control," that such maturity would preclude such ignorance. The best form of birth control is to encourage and educate them to employ a healthy thought process which includes exercising better judgement regarding sexual activity.

Education doesn't always have to mean buying birth control. Abstinence is free, and it can be taught at a very early age, when children are the most impressionable.

And if abstinence isn't for you and your family, by all means, load up on cancer causing birth control pills and penicillin or whatever works best these days for stds!

But don't expect others to pay for it.

You're never going to get leftists to comprehend the concept of "make your life choices, and bear the cost and consequence of them yourself". You know that, right?

 

[danielpalos]

While I don't see many "fighting" against it, some of us think abstinence is the most effective form of birth control. And it's free.

social morals are free; but, we still cannot seem to "afford", a Commune of Heaven on Earth.

 

[sealybobo]

mm

"Without a strong commitment to marriage as a life goal and as an essential gift

to children, today’s teenagers find it much harder to come up with good reasons to

say “no” to sex, to use birth control conscientiously, to avoid men who are not good

marriage candidates, or to consider adoption when marriage is not advisable."

http://americanvalues.org/catalog/pdfs/ageofunwedmothers.pdf

And? I'm not arguing against teaching children these things.

You still haven't addressed the issue with your OP, which is that if you don't want the feds to pay for birth control, you are "anti-birth control".

When will you stop lying, pudding?

Personally, I'm very in favor of people using birth control. The more time I spend around humans, the more in favor of it I become.

Doesn't mean I want to pay for it.

What if them not taking birth control cost you more?

Foodstamps, welfare, social services & PRISONS!!!!

We're trying to explain to you if you don't pay for birth control you'll pay much more later.

Oh, and I could have added YOU or one of your love ones being murdered by an unwanted child who one day grows up to murder you. So either pay a little now (preventative) or pay a lot more later.

I'm all for cutting birth control as long as we also cut foodstamps and welfare. That way if the stupid fuck didn't take their pills and gets knocked up and comes crawling for foodstamps to feed their kids they can starve for all I care. We aren't going to reward bad behavior. We will however encourage good behavior and that's what free birth control is all about.

Do you object to birth control because you are cheap or stupid? If its religion then that falls under stupid.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

While I don't see many "fighting" against it, some of us think abstinence is the most effective form of birth control. And it's free.

It is, but the importance of birth control goes beyond the pre-marriage period. You want married folks thinking seriously about family planning too and that does involve birth control unless you seriously expect to tell married couples not to have sex.

Plus, a lot of folks forget sex isn't always a choice or can be a choice made with the deck stacked against them. For Teens, Hormones+Self respect problems+Peer pressure can erode judgement pretty fast when it comes to sex before you toss in underage drinking. Better to be preventative. Like I said, when my kids come of age I intend to be fully upfront with expectations on behavior (Mom and Dad waited for marriage, you should too if you really love someone and respect them) as well as upfront on birth control and it's importance.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

That only makes my point. The wide availability of "birth control" only makes it easier for a woman to indulge in casual sexual activity. I always thought sex was something someone would think long and hard over. Not anymore I guess.

That argument doesn't fly. Birth Control doesn't protect you from STD's, emotional and physical abuse, etc. So sex is still something you take seriously even when you do bring birth control into the picture. To speak specifically to your point, the pill does two things:

1. Makes things cheaper for the rest of us. Less unplanned pregnancies means less societal cost.
2. Give some semblance of balance to the issue between men and women on the issue of sex. For a woman the associated cost and risks of sex are so much higher than the are for men, who won't have to bear the physical changes and difficulties of pregnancy in addition to being able to up and leave. Men typically don't miss work due to pregnancy related health issues, nor do they end up having to go through the post pregnancy downtime in physical recovery. As an aside: I'd like to see more leave time for men related to pregnancy so they can help at the beginning. Post-partum is real and very tough on Moms if Dad isn't around to help, even if Dad isn't a deadbeat.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, teenagers are a real conundrum. I've known a lot of mature teenagers that still end up pregnant. I've known a lot of very very immature ones that don't. The difference? The immature one was taught about birth control, the mature one wasn't.

Well, that doesn't jibe. Being the "mature" teenager would also include the possibility of being taught the importance of "birth control," that such maturity would preclude such ignorance. The best form of birth control is to encourage and educate them to employ a healthy thought process which includes exercising better judgement regarding sexual activity.

Education doesn't always have to mean buying birth control. Abstinence is free, and it can be taught at a very early age, when children are the most impressionable.

And if abstinence isn't for you and your family, by all means, load up on cancer causing birth control pills and penicillin or whatever works best these days for stds!

But don't expect others to pay for it.

You're never going to get leftists to comprehend the concept of "make your life choices, and bear the cost and consequence of them yourself". You know that, right?

I do. That's why I advocate building more prisons and insane asylums. When narcissism and greed becomes pathological, ppl should be removed from polite society.

 

[g5000]

Pence is a big Catholic and wants to overturn Roe v Wade while making birth control more unattainable for everyone. Thanks, Trump.

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Trump believes birth control should be an over the counter drug without a prescription.

I wrote about that months ago.

 

[g5000]

Trump backs birth control without prescription - CNN.com

"I would say it should not be a prescription; it should not be done by prescription."

Pedophiles everywhere are pleased.

 

[Shrimpbox]

While I don't see many "fighting" against it, some of us think abstinence is the most effective form of birth control. And it's free.

It is, but the importance of birth control goes beyond the pre-marriage period. You want married folks thinking seriously about family planning too and that does involve birth control unless you seriously expect to tell married couples not to have sex.

Plus, a lot of folks forget sex isn't always a choice or can be a choice made with the deck stacked against them. For Teens, Hormones+Self respect problems+Peer pressure can erode judgement pretty fast when it comes to sex before you toss in underage drinking. Better to be preventative. Like I said, when my kids come of age I intend to be fully upfront with expectations on behavior (Mom and Dad waited for marriage, you should too if you really love someone and respect them) as well as upfront on birth control and it's importance.

Why do you keep insisting that people young people have no control over their lives?you are a typical,it's not my fault I couldn't help it liberal. If children were taught the perils,of bringing someone into the world they cannot care for and that you as an individual have a responsibility to control your behavior before they handed out birth control like candy you might have less unwanted pregnancies. I don't know how civilized you can be when you compare,feudal preteens and third world arranged marriages as similar behavior to teens in America today. And what kind of genius claims that mature teens get pregnant and immature ones don't because of sex Ed, utter unsubstantiated bs.

I would suggest you study this link. For coyote the greatest amount of unwanted pregnancies is in the 20-24 age group. The instances of pregnancy have more to do with poverty than geography but that doesn't fit your agenda. I don't think birth control is a bad thing at all, but you believe teenagers should be able to do whatever they want or what their hormones want and any restraint on this behavior is fruitless or fascist. This is the same reason we have crying rooms, hot chocolat, counselors, days off from school, and comfort dogs. We are coddling a whole generation and the uninhibited disassociation of sex with responsibility is just one reason we are creating a generation of spoiled wimps.

Unintended Pregnancy in the United States

 

[mgh80]

While I don't see many "fighting" against it, some of us think abstinence is the most effective form of birth control. And it's free.

It's also the most naive. Anybody who thinks that teenagers in high school aren't having sex are out to lunch. 9/10 when the girl gets pregnant mom and dad are completely shocked...it's sad really.

 

[Coyote]

Casual sex has long been denied women because she is the one that always pays the price of pregnancy - historically.

Denied?

The whole idea of it all is not to pay any price for it whatsoever. Hence, abstinence. Like I said, sex isn't supposed to be "casual." It is precisely because it is seen as "casual" that women are often "paying the price for pregnancy" --historically.

The pill changed that hugely and allowed women to indulge in what was long considered the male prerogative.

That only makes my point. The wide availability of "birth control" only makes it easier for a woman to indulge in casual sexual activity. I always thought sex was something someone would think long and hard over. Not anymore I guess.

I think it still is, but women are on equal footing now in terms of deciding whether or not to engage in it. I don't see that - in and of itself - as a bad thing.

 

[Coyote]

While I don't see many "fighting" against it, some of us think abstinence is the most effective form of birth control. And it's free.

It is, but the importance of birth control goes beyond the pre-marriage period. You want married folks thinking seriously about family planning too and that does involve birth control unless you seriously expect to tell married couples not to have sex.

Plus, a lot of folks forget sex isn't always a choice or can be a choice made with the deck stacked against them. For Teens, Hormones+Self respect problems+Peer pressure can erode judgement pretty fast when it comes to sex before you toss in underage drinking. Better to be preventative. Like I said, when my kids come of age I intend to be fully upfront with expectations on behavior (Mom and Dad waited for marriage, you should too if you really love someone and respect them) as well as upfront on birth control and it's importance.

Why do you keep insisting that people young people have no control over their lives?you are a typical,it's not my fault I couldn't help it liberal. If children were taught the perils,of bringing someone into the world they cannot care for and that you as an individual have a responsibility to control your behavior before they handed out birth control like candy you might have less unwanted pregnancies. I don't know how civilized you can be when you compare,feudal preteens and third world arranged marriages as similar behavior to teens in America today. And what kind of genius claims that mature teens get pregnant and immature ones don't because of sex Ed, utter unsubstantiated bs.

I would suggest you study this link. For coyote the greatest amount of unwanted pregnancies is in the 20-24 age group. The instances of pregnancy have more to do with poverty than geography but that doesn't fit your agenda. I don't think birth control is a bad thing at all, but you believe teenagers should be able to do whatever they want or what their hormones want and any restraint on this behavior is fruitless or fascist. This is the same reason we have crying rooms, hot chocolat, counselors, days off from school, and comfort dogs. We are coddling a whole generation and the uninhibited disassociation of sex with responsibility is just one reason we are creating a generation of spoiled wimps.

Unintended Pregnancy in the United States

I'm not sure what "agenda" you think I have? I've used that same link as well so I'm familiar with it and it supports what I've said.

Your claim: but you believe teenagers should be able to do whatever they want or what their hormones want and any restraint on this behavior - is baseless and shows you aren't reading what I and others are writing.

NO ONE is saying that teenagers should show no restraint - NO ONE. What people are saying is YES - they should taught restraint, responsibility, etc. - but they ARE teenagers and not adults - so are you going to leave it at that? OR are you going to provide a back up plan so if they do decide to have sex they will at least not come home with a baby?