Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Coyote]

Goodness. You are certainly an excitable child. Do you normally get so excited using naughty words like that?

In the meantime (hopefully your pants are zipped and you've washed your hands) - how do you propose to reduce teen pregnancy rates or is your preference to have those costs passed on to the rest of us once they've had their babies? Because dude, that's what happens - regardless of whether you kick and scream and cry about it. Someone has to pay, and it's usually the rest of us. I'd rather pay for the prevention.

Exactly, donate to a charity and pay for it. But that isn't what you're proposing, you're proposing government do it for you. I like how when liberals want government to pay for your shit, you say you are paying for someone else's as if your greed is somehow altruistic.

Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world

Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

First of all, I'm not an anarchist, simpleton. I've made clear my standard is opposition to redistribution of wealth. You have to know that in all the years you've read my posts. Too many concussions from your head hitting the headboard from guys too cheap to pay for your birth control? If you're not going to be serious, don't ask me to be.

What is a small government libertarian?

The other small government libertarians pretty well agreed with what I said. Do you really need this explained to you ... again? You have to keep using disingenuous arguments? I guess that's a reflection of the lack of bullets in your intellectual gun.

Again, why won't you donate your OWN money to support charities you believe in? Note the difference between us. I'm saying I will donate to planned parenthood if they get off the public dole. You're saying if government doesn't fund them, you believe they will go under. Obviously you know liberals just won't give their own money voluntarily. I guess there's at least a grain of truth in that admission

Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.

 

[Coyote]

Yet, if you ASK those Canadians if they'd trade their system for ours, you'll find overwelmingly the answer is "no".

Then why do the ones who can afford it come here for medical care?

But wow, what a point. Canadians like having other people paying their bills for them. I'll give you that is how most people are like here too. You know, like you ...

For the same reason rich people all over go to different countries or out-of-plan places for health care - because they can, because they feel it's better, because they can get it quicker. In the end though - they don't want what we have and have emphatically stated that.

Canadians also die of heart disease and cancer at higher rates. Equal access to healthcare means many don't get it until after they are dead

That doesn't necessarily mean that the death rates from those diseases are caused by access to health care - there are a lot of factors that go into that.

Do some reading on the subject and the time it takes in Canada to get healthcare

Show me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.

 

[kaz]

Exactly, donate to a charity and pay for it. But that isn't what you're proposing, you're proposing government do it for you. I like how when liberals want government to pay for your shit, you say you are paying for someone else's as if your greed is somehow altruistic.

Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world

Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

No, it isn't.

Since the feds started interfering with the sexual development and fertility of our youths, stds and teen pregnancy costs have SKYROCKETED. So stop with the stupid, repetitive and false lie that "FEDERAL FUNDING OF BIRTH CONTROL SAVES US MONEY!" There's absolutely no support for that statement, and quite a bit of support for just the opposite.

I've offered up support - from a variety of sources - that free birth control to teens has reduced teen pregnancy rates AND abortion rates. You can choose to ignore it, but thus far you've only offered up one source in opposition and no real data.

I'll chip in my own money to ensure that continues. That is the difference between us. You're a skin flint who claims your lack of personal willingness to help is altruism while my willingness to personally help is driven by greed. In other words, you're a typical liberal

 

[Coyote]

Still waiting on my free Playboy subscription.....

Do you care if it's slightly used?

 

[kaz]

Exactly, donate to a charity and pay for it. But that isn't what you're proposing, you're proposing government do it for you. I like how when liberals want government to pay for your shit, you say you are paying for someone else's as if your greed is somehow altruistic.

Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world

Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

First of all, I'm not an anarchist, simpleton. I've made clear my standard is opposition to redistribution of wealth. You have to know that in all the years you've read my posts. Too many concussions from your head hitting the headboard from guys too cheap to pay for your birth control? If you're not going to be serious, don't ask me to be.

What is a small government libertarian?

The other small government libertarians pretty well agreed with what I said. Do you really need this explained to you ... again? You have to keep using disingenuous arguments? I guess that's a reflection of the lack of bullets in your intellectual gun.

Again, why won't you donate your OWN money to support charities you believe in? Note the difference between us. I'm saying I will donate to planned parenthood if they get off the public dole. You're saying if government doesn't fund them, you believe they will go under. Obviously you know liberals just won't give their own money voluntarily. I guess there's at least a grain of truth in that admission

Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.

And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it

 

[kaz]

Then why do the ones who can afford it come here for medical care?

But wow, what a point. Canadians like having other people paying their bills for them. I'll give you that is how most people are like here too. You know, like you ...

For the same reason rich people all over go to different countries or out-of-plan places for health care - because they can, because they feel it's better, because they can get it quicker. In the end though - they don't want what we have and have emphatically stated that.

Canadians also die of heart disease and cancer at higher rates. Equal access to healthcare means many don't get it until after they are dead

That doesn't necessarily mean that the death rates from those diseases are caused by access to health care - there are a lot of factors that go into that.

Do some reading on the subject and the time it takes in Canada to get healthcare

Show me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.

You need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?

I'll tell you what. I will do that, but I want to know what you are going to do about it if I do first. Are you going to blow it off and say whatever? Or are you going to say wow, that is a huge problem with Canadian healthcare then? Or something else? Specify

 

[Coyote]

Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

No, it isn't.

Since the feds started interfering with the sexual development and fertility of our youths, stds and teen pregnancy costs have SKYROCKETED. So stop with the stupid, repetitive and false lie that "FEDERAL FUNDING OF BIRTH CONTROL SAVES US MONEY!" There's absolutely no support for that statement, and quite a bit of support for just the opposite.

I've offered up support - from a variety of sources - that free birth control to teens has reduced teen pregnancy rates AND abortion rates. You can choose to ignore it, but thus far you've only offered up one source in opposition and no real data.

I'll chip in my own money to ensure that continues. That is the difference between us. You're a skin flint who claims your lack of personal willingness to help is altruism while my willingness to personally help is driven by greed. In other words, you're a typical liberal

Funny how I'm a "skin flint" when I'm donating the same as you

 

[Coyote]

For the same reason rich people all over go to different countries or out-of-plan places for health care - because they can, because they feel it's better, because they can get it quicker. In the end though - they don't want what we have and have emphatically stated that.

Canadians also die of heart disease and cancer at higher rates. Equal access to healthcare means many don't get it until after they are dead

That doesn't necessarily mean that the death rates from those diseases are caused by access to health care - there are a lot of factors that go into that.

Do some reading on the subject and the time it takes in Canada to get healthcare

Show me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.

You need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?

Prove your claims. Death and disease rates are influenced by a number of different factors - genetics, access to health care, preventative care, life style, smoking, diet, etc etc. You didn't know this? Seriously?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Still waiting on my free Playboy subscription.....

Do you care if it's slightly used?

Depends on her age

 

[Coyote]

Still waiting on my free Playboy subscription.....

Do you care if it's slightly used?

Depends on her age

That could drive up the cost. Just saying. Your premiums might go up.

 

[kaz]

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

No, it isn't.

Since the feds started interfering with the sexual development and fertility of our youths, stds and teen pregnancy costs have SKYROCKETED. So stop with the stupid, repetitive and false lie that "FEDERAL FUNDING OF BIRTH CONTROL SAVES US MONEY!" There's absolutely no support for that statement, and quite a bit of support for just the opposite.

I've offered up support - from a variety of sources - that free birth control to teens has reduced teen pregnancy rates AND abortion rates. You can choose to ignore it, but thus far you've only offered up one source in opposition and no real data.

I'll chip in my own money to ensure that continues. That is the difference between us. You're a skin flint who claims your lack of personal willingness to help is altruism while my willingness to personally help is driven by greed. In other words, you're a typical liberal

Funny how I'm a "skin flint" when I'm donating the same as you

As I pointed out, you directly contradict that by saying if government doesn't pay for it then no one will. Why are you worried about it then? If you and other liberals are going to join in and fund it with those of us who do have personal responsibility, what is your claim they won't get birth control if government doesn't pay for it based on?

 

[kaz]

Canadians also die of heart disease and cancer at higher rates. Equal access to healthcare means many don't get it until after they are dead

That doesn't necessarily mean that the death rates from those diseases are caused by access to health care - there are a lot of factors that go into that.

Do some reading on the subject and the time it takes in Canada to get healthcare

Show me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.

You need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?

Prove your claims. Death and disease rates are influenced by a number of different factors - genetics, access to health care, preventative care, life style, smoking, diet, etc etc. You didn't know this? Seriously?

I'll tell you what. I will do that, but I want to know what you are going to do about it if I do first. Are you going to blow it off and say whatever? Or are you going to say wow, that is a huge problem with Canadian healthcare then? Or something else? Specify

 

[kaz]

Still waiting on my free Playboy subscription.....

Do you care if it's slightly used?

Depends on her age

That could drive up the cost. Just saying. Your premiums might go up.

Suddenly you get that adding a benefit to a medical plan adds cost? What triggered that epiphany since you didn't get it before?

 

[Coyote]

Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

First of all, I'm not an anarchist, simpleton. I've made clear my standard is opposition to redistribution of wealth. You have to know that in all the years you've read my posts. Too many concussions from your head hitting the headboard from guys too cheap to pay for your birth control? If you're not going to be serious, don't ask me to be.

What is a small government libertarian?

The other small government libertarians pretty well agreed with what I said. Do you really need this explained to you ... again? You have to keep using disingenuous arguments? I guess that's a reflection of the lack of bullets in your intellectual gun.

Again, why won't you donate your OWN money to support charities you believe in? Note the difference between us. I'm saying I will donate to planned parenthood if they get off the public dole. You're saying if government doesn't fund them, you believe they will go under. Obviously you know liberals just won't give their own money voluntarily. I guess there's at least a grain of truth in that admission

Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.

And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it

You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.

You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.

 

[Coyote]

That doesn't necessarily mean that the death rates from those diseases are caused by access to health care - there are a lot of factors that go into that.

Do some reading on the subject and the time it takes in Canada to get healthcare

Show me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.

You need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?

Prove your claims. Death and disease rates are influenced by a number of different factors - genetics, access to health care, preventative care, life style, smoking, diet, etc etc. You didn't know this? Seriously?

I'll tell you what. I will do that, but I want to know what you are going to do about it if I do first. Are you going to blow it off and say whatever? Or are you going to say wow, that is a huge problem with Canadian healthcare then? Or something else? Specify

Tell you what - let's both do it and see what we come up with?

 

[Hum Dinger]

Abstinence is often self-defeating. It turns people into a ticking sexual time bombs. It's probably the leading cause of unwanted pregnancies.

 

[kaz]

Um ... where do you get that is a choice?

Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

First of all, I'm not an anarchist, simpleton. I've made clear my standard is opposition to redistribution of wealth. You have to know that in all the years you've read my posts. Too many concussions from your head hitting the headboard from guys too cheap to pay for your birth control? If you're not going to be serious, don't ask me to be.

What is a small government libertarian?

The other small government libertarians pretty well agreed with what I said. Do you really need this explained to you ... again? You have to keep using disingenuous arguments? I guess that's a reflection of the lack of bullets in your intellectual gun.

Again, why won't you donate your OWN money to support charities you believe in? Note the difference between us. I'm saying I will donate to planned parenthood if they get off the public dole. You're saying if government doesn't fund them, you believe they will go under. Obviously you know liberals just won't give their own money voluntarily. I guess there's at least a grain of truth in that admission

Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.

And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it

You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.

You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.

How generous of you. You think taxpayers should pay for your cause rather than you paying it out of your wallet. And I called you a skin flint. Nailed it!

And again you repeat that if government doesn't pay for it, you don't believe liberals will make sure their objectives are met. If people aren't willing to pay for it with choice, then it shouldn't happen. So since you say you do donate, is it the other liberals following up with donating to their own causes you don't believe will happen?

 

[Coyote]

Some interesting statistics comparing US and Canada: Canada vs United States: Health Facts and Stats

Hospital beds > Per 1,000 people
Canada
3.7 per 1,000 people
Ranked 29th. 12% more than United States
US
3.3 per 1,000 people
Ranked 37th.

Life expectancy:
Men - Canada 79; US 76.
Women - Canada 83; US 81

Rankings and years of potential life due to premature death are interesting.

Quality of healthcare system:
Canada 71.98
Ranked 16th.
United States 69.03
Ranked 23th.

Abortions
Canada - 70,549
Ranked 11th.

US - 1.21 million
Ranked 2nd. 17 times more than Canada

Heart Disease deaths
Canada 94.9 per 100,000 people
Ranked 16th.

US 106.5 per 100,000 people
Ranked 13th. 12% more than Canada

Some categories US ranks better - modern equipment, waiting times for example but this doesn't seem to translate into higher disease or death rates.

 

[kaz]

Abstinence is often self-defeating. It turns people into a ticking sexual time bombs. It's probably the leading cause of unwanted pregnancies.

Liberals just get stranger and stranger

 

[Coyote]

You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.

First of all, I'm not an anarchist, simpleton. I've made clear my standard is opposition to redistribution of wealth. You have to know that in all the years you've read my posts. Too many concussions from your head hitting the headboard from guys too cheap to pay for your birth control? If you're not going to be serious, don't ask me to be.

What is a small government libertarian?

The other small government libertarians pretty well agreed with what I said. Do you really need this explained to you ... again? You have to keep using disingenuous arguments? I guess that's a reflection of the lack of bullets in your intellectual gun.

Again, why won't you donate your OWN money to support charities you believe in? Note the difference between us. I'm saying I will donate to planned parenthood if they get off the public dole. You're saying if government doesn't fund them, you believe they will go under. Obviously you know liberals just won't give their own money voluntarily. I guess there's at least a grain of truth in that admission

Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.

And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it

You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.

You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.

How generous of you. You think taxpayers should pay for your cause rather than you paying it out of your wallet. And I called you a skin flint. Nailed it!

And again you repeat that if government doesn't pay for it, you don't believe liberals will make sure their objectives are met. If people aren't willing to pay for it with choice, then it shouldn't happen. So since you say you do donate, is it the other liberals following up with donating to their own causes you don't believe will happen?

You nailed nothing. Skinflint.

You don't want to pay for it. Period.