Women: I'd benefit from your insight - What is a woman's perception on least effort?

[sear]

My divorce was finalized in 1981.

I've dated occasionally since then.

And in some cyber-cases, I've suggested to her:

Lookit:
- No pressure.
- Some day, if you get off work at 5M, and you just don't feel like going home to the same old dreary apartment where you have to cook the food, eat the food, and then wash up / clean up afterward;
instead of that; have dinner with me.

I'm surprised by how frequently this offer is declined.

But my understanding of why was recently advanced by an irate exclamation:

"I shaved my legs for THIS?!

Our culture holds women to impossibly high standards.

In our culture, women are expected to be:
- Smart; but not smarter than him.
- Smarter than him, but not to let him know it.
- Gorgeous.
- Efficient.
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

So is it possible "she" has turned me down, not because she wouldn't like to just go to a restaurant instead of having to cook for herself;
but because:
- slicing the carrots into the salad for herself is less trouble than:

- doing the manicure
- getting her hair done
- shaving her legs
- being freshly showered, and fragrant
- etc (I don't know all the details; I'm just guessing wildly)?

* OR *

Am I just a repulsive troll and no woman wants to be seen in public with me?

 

[defcon4]

I'm surprised by how frequently this offer is declined.

Maybe they thought you were a freak?

 

[JoeMoma]

You should pay for delivery to both her and your place and have a meal together via Skype or FaceTime.

 

[Mr. H.]

With women the less you say, the better.

 

[JoeMoma]

Who is her? Your ex?

 

[Pogo]

With women the less you say, the better.

Ah, that essplains the avatar.

 

[Asclepias]

My divorce was finalized in 1981.

I've dated occasionally since then.

And in some cyber-cases, I've suggested to her:

Lookit:
- No pressure.
- Some day, if you get off work at 5M, and you just don't feel like going home to the same old dreary apartment where you have to cook the food, eat the food, and then wash up / clean up afterward;
instead of that; have dinner with me.

I'm surprised by how frequently this offer is declined.

But my understanding of why was recently advanced by an irate exclamation:

"I shaved my legs for THIS?!

Our culture holds women to impossibly high standards.

In our culture, women are expected to be:
- Smart; but not smarter than him.
- Smarter than him, but not to let him know it.
- Gorgeous.
- Efficient.
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

So is it possible "she" has turned me down, not because she wouldn't like to just go to a restaurant instead of having to cook for herself;
but because:
- slicing the carrots into the salad for herself is less trouble than:

- doing the manicure
- getting her hair done
- shaving her legs
- being freshly showered, and fragrant
- etc (I don't know all the details; I'm just guessing wildly)?

* OR *

Am I just a repulsive troll and no woman wants to be seen in public with me?

Never invite a woman over your house unless you have already been on several dates. Its weird. Let her invite herself if its a first date.

 

[Katzndogz]

My divorce was finalized in 1981.

I've dated occasionally since then.

And in some cyber-cases, I've suggested to her:

Lookit:
- No pressure.
- Some day, if you get off work at 5M, and you just don't feel like going home to the same old dreary apartment where you have to cook the food, eat the food, and then wash up / clean up afterward;
instead of that; have dinner with me.

I'm surprised by how frequently this offer is declined.

But my understanding of why was recently advanced by an irate exclamation:

"I shaved my legs for THIS?!

Our culture holds women to impossibly high standards.

In our culture, women are expected to be:
- Smart; but not smarter than him.
- Smarter than him, but not to let him know it.
- Gorgeous.
- Efficient.
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

So is it possible "she" has turned me down, not because she wouldn't like to just go to a restaurant instead of having to cook for herself;
but because:
- slicing the carrots into the salad for herself is less trouble than:

- doing the manicure
- getting her hair done
- shaving her legs
- being freshly showered, and fragrant
- etc (I don't know all the details; I'm just guessing wildly)?

* OR *

Am I just a repulsive troll and no woman wants to be seen in public with me?

You're right. Not about being troll, but why the offers are declined. Your offer is made where the relationship has stabilized and you've already seen her with her make up off. You made an offer to "hang out". Women are very hesitant to hang out early in the relationship because it usually means the going out phase is over. It will be hanging out from now on.

 

[sear]

"Never invite a woman over your house unless you have already been on several dates." #7

Absolutely 100% correct !!!
Not only for her safety, but for my personal safety, and home security. I don't want some stranger casing the joint from the inside!! Absolutely UNTHINKABLE !!!

"You're right. Not about being troll, but why the offers are declined. Your offer is made where the relationship has stabilized and you've already seen her with her make up off. You made an offer to "hang out". Women are very hesitant to hang out early in the relationship because it usually means the going out phase is over. It will be hanging out from now on." #8

I was not clear.
I meant that we meet for our first date AT A RESTAURANT!!

ALLways ONLY at a public place !!! *

I presumed that was understood.

It would absolutely NEVER occur to me to handle it any other way.

She doesn't have to get in my car.
She doesn't have to trust me.

If for any reason she's in any way uncomfortable she can get up and walk away; at ANY point.

- she gets good food, professionally prepared
- she doesn't have to lift a finger in the kitchen
- her transportation costs may be $less than the $cost of the food she'd otherwise be eating at home alone
- she doesn't have to wash the dish
- AND !!!
It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility she might make a friend.

"When the picture doesn't make any sense, a piece of the puzzle is missing." psychologist Joy Browne

I don't know what the missing puzzle piece is.
Maybe other guys take advantage, make unwelcome advances.
Maybe women either expect that of me, or are at least on guard about it.
It's not who I am.
When a person is in my company, their welfare is my responsibility.
I'm not Superman. Bullets don't bounce off my leotard.
But within the bounds of what is humanly possible; she's safer with me than without me.

* I met a woman on Saturday, our 1st date. She's on a special diet, so instead of meeting at a restaurant, we met at the computer store.
It was fine. We had a nice day together; went for a walk, did a little shopping ...

 

[Asclepias]

"Never invite a woman over your house unless you have already been on several dates." #7

Absolutely 100% correct !!!
Not only for her safety, but for my personal safety, and home security. I don't want some stranger casing the joint from the inside!! Absolutely UNTHINKABLE !!!

"You're right. Not about being troll, but why the offers are declined. Your offer is made where the relationship has stabilized and you've already seen her with her make up off. You made an offer to "hang out". Women are very hesitant to hang out early in the relationship because it usually means the going out phase is over. It will be hanging out from now on." #8

I was not clear.
I meant that we meet for our first date AT A RESTAURANT!!

ALLways ONLY at a public place !!! *

I presumed that was understood.

It would absolutely NEVER occur to me to handle it any other way.

She doesn't have to get in my car.
She doesn't have to trust me.

If for any reason she's in any way uncomfortable she can get up and walk away; at ANY point.

- she gets good food, professionally prepared
- she doesn't have to lift a finger in the kitchen
- her transportation costs may be $less than the $cost of the food she'd otherwise be eating at home alone
- she doesn't have to wash the dish
- AND !!!
It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility she might make a friend.

"When the picture doesn't make any sense, a piece of the puzzle is missing." psychologist Joy Browne

I don't know what the missing puzzle piece is.
Maybe other guys take advantage, make unwelcome advances.
Maybe women either expect that of me, or are at least on guard about it.
It's not who I am.
When a person is in my company, their welfare is my responsibility.
I'm not Superman. Bullets don't bounce off my leotard.
But within the bounds of what is humanly possible; she's safer with me than without me.

* I met a woman on Saturday, our 1st date. She's on a special diet, so instead of meeting at a restaurant, we met at the computer store.
It was fine. We had a nice day together; went for a walk, did a little shopping ...

I assume by cyber case this offer was made via the internet?

 

[Agit8r]

Some day, if you get off work at 5M, and you just don't feel like going home to the same old dreary apartment where you have to cook the food, eat the food, and then wash up / clean up afterward;
instead of that; have dinner with me.

IMO, you need to double down on that sentiment:

"Hey, instead of soaking in the bathtub, contemplating slicing your wrists,
maybe I could give you a pity fuck"


[Please don't do this, I'm being sarcastic]

 

[sear]

A #10
Often yes; e-mail / PM, etc.
Sometimes telephone, though with caller ID I try to avoid that*.
A woman I met @DateHookup and I dated for 8 months.
But the 55 mile distance between us was an insurmountable obstacle. When we parted, we were both in tears.

Many of these contacts are solicitations; "Women seeking Men" on craigslist or similar.
That merely adds to the puzzlement.

One woman in particular expressed her preference for a good sense of humor.
I often have my friends laughing.
I was the man she described. But she refused to meet me at a public place.
That's fine.
But then why put the ad there in the first place?! Describing ME?!?!

Whatever!
It doesn't make sense to me. Ockham's Razor: "she" thinks she'll have to "earn" the meal? And the odd part of that is; on many dates I've left her secure either in her car, or at her home at the end of the date; & not even initiated body contact; not a kiss, not a hug, perhaps not a handshake. It just depends on who she is; where her comfort level is.
That varies. My Saturday date I hugged her a few times within 10 minutes of meeting for the first time. Her comment to me when we parted hours later: smooching means kissing on the lips
which I did not do with her.
She's "Born Again" (didn't tell me until after we'd met) and I didn't think it would have been appropriate.
But it runs the spectrum. I had sex on a first date, and ended up marrying her. It's simply a matter of what's right for her.

* A few years ago a woman e-mailed me her telephone number. I was not yet ready to give her my telephone number, but called her. I was alarmed when she called me back several hours later.
No harm in that case. But I'm more careful now.

 

[Jackson]

Perhaps you should ask a lady out for a shorter time frame date. Say, meet me for a drink after work? Or coffee? Sounds like you tried a dating site. How did that work out?

 

[Iceweasel]

Well, it's a weird invite. You either ask for a date or you don't, floating out a sometime maybe if suggestion isn't a date. I don't really know what it is but I'm sure it crosses you off the list in a hurry.

 

[Jackson]

Well, it's a weird invite. You either ask for a date or you don't, floating out a sometime maybe if suggestion isn't a date. I don't really know what it is but I'm sure it crosses you off the list in a hurry.

That's why Happy Hours were so popular. You could have a drink with someone and then leave or go on and "cruise" to find another interesting person. Who wants to be "stuck" with a person that turns out not interesting for three courses?

 

[koshergrl]

It's your delivery. Most women aren't interested in a man who is so openly ambivalent about spending time with them. If a man says "hey I've got nothing better to do, you wanna free meal" the normal women will decline. You have to at least pretend you want to be with her, and not just because you are lonely or think her night will be dull without you.

 

[sear]

"a shorter time frame date. Say, meet me for a drink" J #13

Yes.
There's great flexibility in this.
We could dine at the bar. I've done that.
We could get a table, and just have water (but still have to leave a big fat tip for the waiter).
If she likes, she can have her meal delivered in a doggy-bag, and depart with it.
And if I sense things aren't going well; long uncomfortable pauses, or a persistent scowl, I'm not above reminding her of her options.
I've only had to do that once. It was decades ago. We were clearly not a match. And I think she just wanted free meals.

btw I do consume beverage ethanol on occasion. But I prefer not to do so on the first few dates.

"Well, it's a weird invite." Iw #14

By description perhaps, but not execution.

We correspond, see if there's potential.
Then I ask her if she'd like to meet me for lunch or dinner (lunch is the less threatening to the woman, and my personal preference).
- If she says no, the answer is no.
- If she says yes, my next question is: Date, time, location.
It's not perfect. Is anything else?

"Most women aren't interested in a man who is so openly ambivalent" kg #16

?!
ambivalence (àm-bîv´e-lens) noun
1.The coexistence of opposing attitudes or feelings, such as love and hate, toward a person, an object, or an idea.
2.Uncertainty or indecisiveness as to which course to follow.

[German Ambivalenz : Latin ambi-, ambi- + Latin valentia, vigor (from valêns, valent-, present participle of valêre, to be strong).] *

Which definition of "ambivalent" do you have in mind?
What specific words have I posted that mislead you to this impression?

"about spending time with them. If a man says "hey I've got nothing better to do, you wanna free meal" the normal women will decline." kg

I would hope most men would too.
I have never spoken those words, and can't imagine any comment I have communicated being misinterpreted as being that, or anything similar.

They're often (but not always) date sites.
Isn't that the purpose? To meet? To date? If not, then why do they call it that?

Here's a C&P from craigslist:

personals:
strictly platonic
women seek women
women seeking men
men seeking women
men seeking men
misc romance
casual encounters
missed connections

After me living here alone for 15 years, I finally put an ad in "men seeking women".
And I've got a date with Jennifer for tomorrow, Thursday.

"You have to at least pretend you want to be with her"

It wouldn't occur to me foist such false impression.
I would consider it:
- abusive or exploitative
- self-defeating
- foolish. Why would I waste her time, or mine?
It would never occur to me.

"and not just because you are lonely or think her night will be dull without you."

What I think is:
- She's single (I won't date a married woman)
- she's hetero, or at least bi
- if she's single, and wishes not to be, if she wants to meet a man; I fit the description.

How you get ambivalence out of any of that, I can't imagine.

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah you sound creepy.

 

[Katzndogz]

This is all on line or personal advertising encounters!

Why would you do that?

 

[Jackson]

"a shorter time frame date. Say, meet me for a drink" J #13

Yes.
There's great flexibility in this.
We could dine at the bar. I've done that.
We could get a table, and just have water (but still have to leave a big fat tip for the waiter).
If she likes, she can have her meal delivered in a doggy-bag, and depart with it.
And if I sense things aren't going well; long uncomfortable pauses, or a persistent scowl, I'm not above reminding her of her options.
I've only had to do that once. It was decades ago. We were clearly not a match. And I think she just wanted free meals.

btw I do consume beverage ethanol on occasion. But I prefer not to do so on the first few dates.

"Well, it's a weird invite." Iw #14

By description perhaps, but not execution.

We correspond, see if there's potential.
Then I ask her if she'd like to meet me for lunch or dinner (lunch is the less threatening to the woman, and my personal preference).
- If she says no, the answer is no.
- If she says yes, my next question is: Date, time, location.
It's not perfect. Is anything else?

"Most women aren't interested in a man who is so openly ambivalent" kg #16

?!
ambivalence (àm-bîv´e-lens) noun
1.The coexistence of opposing attitudes or feelings, such as love and hate, toward a person, an object, or an idea.
2.Uncertainty or indecisiveness as to which course to follow.

[German Ambivalenz : Latin ambi-, ambi- + Latin valentia, vigor (from valêns, valent-, present participle of valêre, to be strong).] *

Which definition of "ambivalent" do you have in mind?
What specific words have I posted that mislead you to this impression?

"about spending time with them. If a man says "hey I've got nothing better to do, you wanna free meal" the normal women will decline." kg

I would hope most men would too.
I have never spoken those words, and can't imagine any comment I have communicated being misinterpreted as being that, or anything similar.

They're often (but not always) date sites.
Isn't that the purpose? To meet? To date? If not, then why do they call it that?

Here's a C&P from craigslist:

personals:
strictly platonic
women seek women
women seeking men
men seeking women
men seeking men
misc romance
casual encounters
missed connections

After me living here alone for 15 years, I finally put an ad in "men seeking women".
And I've got a date with Jennifer for tomorrow, Thursday.

"You have to at least pretend you want to be with her"

It wouldn't occur to me foist such false impression.
I would consider it:
- abusive or exploitative
- self-defeating
- foolish. Why would I waste her time, or mine?
It would never occur to me.

"and not just because you are lonely or think her night will be dull without you."

What I think is:
- She's single (I won't date a married woman)
- she's hetero, or at least bi
- if she's single, and wishes not to be, if she wants to meet a man; I fit the description.

How you get ambivalence out of any of that, I can't imagine.

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

Boy Sear, I think you are really overthinking this. You have to build confidence.

That being said, NEVER sit there and order water! My God, if that doesn't scream "Cheapskate", nothing will. And NEVER suggest dinner together OR I'll pay for it and you can take it home on a doggy bag! That's just weird. That's what you do for homeless people!

I think it is best you do order some alcohol beverage, just to let her know, that is permissible. The drink can settle those jitters for both of you. And if you are not inclined to drink, sip it, but always watch her drink and get her refills if she drinks all of her drink. You aren't there to get drunk, but be sociable.

And don't remind her of her options until you are in a relationship for over 4 months.

The thing I think you should remember is a first date or meeting should be as if you were meeting a guy friend for a drink or coffee. Just sharing the time and talking about what is going on. Don't talk about yourself incessantly and just get to know her. Don't put constraints on the time.