You ready to attack Iran?

[Paulie]

That the best you got? LOL!

It didn't deserve even another single syllable, let alone any more words.

 

[Chris]

Right. I forgot that Israel had that Blank Check. You would've thought the Austro-Hungarian Empire would've taught us something...

An Archduke Ferdinand reference?

You deserve a gold star.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

= D

For anyone who missed the reference:

A blank cheque (blank check, carte blanche), in the literal sense, is a cheque that has no numerical value written in, but is already signed. In the figurative or metaphoric sense, it is used (especially in politics) to describe a situation in which an agreement had been made that is open-ended or vague, and therefore subject to abuse, or in which a party is willing to consider any expense in the pursuance of their goals.

This term was also used to describe how the Kaiser of Germany (Kaiser Wilhelm II) told Austria-Hungary officials that they could deal with Serbia however they wanted after Serbian Nationalists assassinated the heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary, Archduke Franz Ferdinand. This immediately preceded World War I.

 

[Charles_Main]

I bet Iran is just quaking in their boots, after hearing what Obama had to say.

"If Iran does not stop their nuclear program, they will face tougher and tougher Sanctions."

I bet when they heard that they were like. "oh sanctions ok(with huge smiles on their faces) Obama could have at least said the military option was still on the table.

 

[Shogun]

yea dude.. CLEARLY the US should pounce on iran like israels lil attack dog!



go fight your own fucking war, dude. you've got the nukes. You dont need to hide behind an American curtain. If you can't stomach democracy then you sure as hell have no reason to expect the US to keep you alive like an iron lung.

 

[editec]

Right. I forgot that Israel had that Blank Check. You would've thought the Austro-Hungarian Empire would've taught us something...

Not understanding history means never having to say you're Sarajevo.

 

[Striker]

Not understanding history means never having to say you're Sarajevo.

Well put.

I am wholeheartedly behind a regime change in Iran. I don't care how it happens.

I'm also sick and tired of Israel's bullsh*t. They cry and cry about terrorism and Begin was one of the worst terrorists in history.

They treat us like slaves. The Zionists have their boots on our throats when it comes to interest slavery, the Federal Reserve, legally mandated insurance, MSM and have totally corrupted the Criminal Justice System. They make up about 8% of the population and 80% of the criminal defense lawyers in this Country.

I've got no hard feelings w/ Semitic people but there has to be something done about the Zionists.

If Israel fell tomorrow, there'd be no tears here.

Close their account.

 

[Tech_Esq]

that AchIneedajob is using the same (almost precisely the same) rhetoric to pursue nuclear weapons that Hilter used to abrogate the Treaty of Versailles and rearm Germany in the 1930s?

Hitler offered that Germany was dedicated to peace but it was unfair that the Great Powers (England, France and Italy) had such a dramatic imbalance of arms. He argued that if Germany was allowed to gain some sort of parity with the Great Powers that Europe would be assured of peace. He even offered to completely disarm if they would (watch for that next from our Iranian friend). He even made a treaty, behind the other power's backs with England that Germany would never build a navy larger than one-third the size of England's. (Of course they had figured out that all of their production at full capacity couldn't build a navy larger than England's in 8 years so, that was a safe treaty.)

Well what's Amadinejad got to say? We're only building nuclear power plants for PEACEFUL electricity, which we're entitled to. Hey! We need a world organization to take the nuclear weapons away from the Great Powers because it's unfair and creates an imbalance...blah blah blah. I dunno, sounds like the same song second verse to me.....anyone else?

 

[Shogun]

it's the same fucking reason WE use to bolster OUR military dude. what the fuck are YOU smoking?

 

[Tech_Esq]

My pet theory:

Iran fought for 8? years against an Army (Iraq) that we rolled over in weeks.

I believe that the WMD rationalization was secondary to the tactical need to flank Iran on three sides. i.e. Afghanistan to the East, Iraq to the West and the Indian Ocean to the South.

Pakistan is an unknown. The recent bombing of Indian interests may seal their fate.

Syria is Israels. Or we could go west and take them out as well. The problem is that we are stretched thin. This whole thing could go South real quick.

Just my opinion.

I agree with the first part of your pet theory.

Ok, since speculation on how to do it has kinda petered out, here's my take. Assuming, en arguendo, the US does it. I don't see any stomach around for a full scale mobilization of the US armed forces. So, absent something crazy happening, that's out.

Cassus belli? Iran makes some demonstration that they are dangerously close to having a nuclear weapon or have a crude untested one. Or, Iran follows through with blockading the Straits of Hormuz.

My best guess would be a decapitating strike against Iranian leadership with a simultaneous attack on all known atomic facilities and missile facilities. All with B-2s and F-117/F-22s and cruise missiles. Concurrent missions taking down the air defenses and Iranian Air Force follow. With Iran laid open, follow-ups to the decapitating strikes take place. Also, attacks preventing movement of Iranian forces toward Iraq occur. The Iranian Navy is destroyed in short order and sea bases denied to them. Silkworm missiles present a hazard to US ships and measures are taken to defend and defeat them. Even still the US loses one or two ships with another heavily damaged.

Concerted effort is made to destroy the fulcrums of Iranian police state power. Significant covert action takes place to attempt to influence a popular uprising against the disrupted government. Probable civil war follows.

That's about it. We break it but we don't fix it. If the good guys win (Iranian people), maybe we revisit the decision. Either way, Iran is no longer a credible threat.

Anyone else?

 

[Striker]

I agree with the first part of your pet theory.

Ok, since speculation on how to do it has kinda petered out, here's my take. Assuming, en arguendo, the US does it. I don't see any stomach around for a full scale mobilization of the US armed forces. So, absent something crazy happening, that's out.

Cassus belli? Iran makes some demonstration that they are dangerously close to having a nuclear weapon or have a crude untested one. Or, Iran follows through with blockading the Straits of Hormuz.

My best guess would be a decapitating strike against Iranian leadership with a simultaneous attack on all known atomic facilities and missile facilities. All with B-2s and F-117/F-22s and cruise missiles. Concurrent missions taking down the air defenses and Iranian Air Force follow. With Iran laid open, follow-ups to the decapitating strikes take place. Also, attacks preventing movement of Iranian forces toward Iraq occur. The Iranian Navy is destroyed in short order and sea bases denied to them. Silkworm missiles present a hazard to US ships and measures are taken to defend and defeat them. Even still the US loses one or two ships with another heavily damaged.

Concerted effort is made to destroy the fulcrums of Iranian police state power. Significant covert action takes place to attempt to influence a popular uprising against the disrupted government. Probable civil war follows.

That's about it. We break it but we don't fix it. If the good guys win (Iranian people), maybe we revisit the decision. Either way, Iran is no longer a credible threat.

Anyone else?

Damn! I like it. I like yours better than what I envision.

But what about Pakistan? Could we count on India?

China.

The Chinese are sneaking up our back door through Panama. That's what scares me about Obama the most. The Dems call to empty the Petroleum Reserve is sheer suicide. Are they doing this crap deliberately? Do they want to see us fall?

 

[bush lover]

Our President Bush and our Vice President Cheney have repeatedly referred to Iran as part of the Axis of Evil, and Iran is run by evil-doers who want to nuke our most important ally, Israel. Our leaders, including Mr. Kristol, Mr. Podhoritz, Mr. Perle, Mr. Wolfowitz, Mr. Bolton, Mr. Abrams and many more, have told us that we have to attack Iran to stop their terrorist aims against Israel. We must attack now, while our leaders are still in power. A pincer movement between Iraq and Afghanistan will be a cakewalk, just like Iraq and Afghanistan were.

 

[Striker]

Our President Bush and our Vice President Cheney have repeatedly referred to Iran as part of the Axis of Evil, and Iran is run by evil-doers who want to nuke our most important ally, Israel. Our leaders, including Mr. Kristol, Mr. Podhoritz, Mr. Perle, Mr. Wolfowitz, Mr. Bolton, Mr. Abrams and many more, have told us that we have to attack Iran to stop their terrorist aims against Israel. We must attack now, while our leaders are still in power. A pincer movement between Iraq and Afghanistan will be a cakewalk, just like Iraq and Afghanistan were.

I apprieciate the sentiment but we don't have the troops to pull it off.

Also, I don't see that Israel has done a damned thing for us except to exchange intelligence that helps us help them keep the lions at bay while all the while they insert spies in sensitive areas of our Government. Look at the list of jews you listed as the ones who want us to attack Iran. They started this crap, got us involved and I say that as soon as we achieve a regime change in Iran that we reevaluate our whole relationship w/ Israel.

Besides, they just got their asses kicked in Lebanon.

I want to shore up our relationship w/ Germany and England/Austrailia. Germany is the strongest potential ally in the Free World. They alone could hold back the Russians as long as we held their rear. If it came to it, they could take the South Balkans and deny the Russians the Med and the Suez.

Germany's Prussian Militarism is a mere shadow of it's former glory and I would hope that their aggressive tendencies have been sated. If threatened, and they were meaningfully pledged as our Allies they would be a World Power overnight if threatened. Invaluable to the maintenence of Freedom.

They are, however, a sword that could prove to be a danger to anyone who wields it.

We should take them into our trust and enlist them. They deserve another chance.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Damn! I like it. I like yours better than what I envision.

But what about Pakistan? Could we count on India?

China.

The Chinese are sneaking up our back door through Panama. That's what scares me about Obama the most. The Dems call to empty the Petroleum Reserve is sheer suicide. Are they doing this crap deliberately? Do they want to see us fall?

Thanks.

I don't think all solutions to these problems are military. As far as Pakistan and India are concerned, we need to be careful and understand what we want and expect out of that part of the world. We've been cultivating relationships with both of them. We need to use the diplomatic capital we've raised there to get the two of them to chill out on the Kashmir issue. Turn down the temperature and get to some kind of framework that would allow Pakistan to free its armed forces to focus on implementing an anti-insurgency strategy in the tribal regions. I view is currently as probably doable. But, that means we're in Afghanistan at least 5 more years.

I'm a hell of a lot more worried about China at least in a strategic sense then almost anything else. Another reason why it will pay to develop relations with India. A billion people sitting on the Chinese border is a formidable check.

China is buying up oil interests in all sorts of unsavory places in the world. Basically, anywhere our morals won't permit us to go, you'll find the Chinese. My chief worry is what happens when the Chinese go to Chavez and say, we'll buy all your oil, you won't need to sell to the US. Think Chavez would hesitate? I think not.

If you want the nightmare scenario, China does that at the same time Iran cuts the Straits of Hormuz. Now we're fucked. No oil from Kuwait, Iraq, Iran and Venezuela. So, we're down to about 40-50% of normal supplies. Oil prices would be passing $800/barrel.

I bet the Dems still wouldn't allow drilling in ANWR.

 

[Striker]

Thanks.

I don't think all solutions to these problems are military. As far as Pakistan and India are concerned, we need to be careful and understand what we want and expect out of that part of the world. We've been cultivating relationships with both of them. We need to use the diplomatic capital we've raised there to get the two of them to chill out on the Kashmir issue. Turn down the temperature and get to some kind of framework that would allow Pakistan to free its armed forces to focus on implementing an anti-insurgency strategy in the tribal regions. I view is currently as probably doable. But, that means we're in Afghanistan at least 5 more years.

I'm a hell of a lot more worried about China at least in a strategic sense then almost anything else. Another reason why it will pay to develop relations with India. A billion people sitting on the Chinese border is a formidable check.

China is buying up oil interests in all sorts of unsavory places in the world. Basically, anywhere our morals won't permit us to go, you'll find the Chinese. My chief worry is what happens when the Chinese go to Chavez and say, we'll buy all your oil, you won't need to sell to the US. Think Chavez would hesitate? I think not.

If you want the nightmare scenario, China does that at the same time Iran cuts the Straits of Hormuz. Now we're fucked. No oil from Kuwait, Iraq, Iran and Venezuela. So, we're down to about 40-50% of normal supplies. Oil prices would be passing $800/barrel.

I bet the Dems still wouldn't allow drilling in ANWR.

...and an empty Strategic Reserve. Good God.

 

[editec]

War with Iran?

Mistake.

Not because of the military threat they represent, of course.

 

[JimH52]

This thread has been taken over by warmongers. But I don't think bush and DICK will be able to lie us into another war before they go away.

 

[Steerpike]

I don't think they're going to attack Iran. But let's face it, if they want to all they have to do is order it. They don't have to "lie us" into anything.

 

[Shogun]

i disagree. there is an image to maintain and a western nation to hide behind. if israel said fuck it and launched an attack they'd lose popular western support and get their asses handed to em by about 5 muslim nations.

it's like the scrawny kid on the playground talking shit while his big friends are around.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

And he's got a gun.