You think the Middle Class has problems now? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

[shintao]

More hysteria from rdean... why am I not surprised?

Oh, yea, it's because every post of his is hysterical bullshit.

Oh yours? "Historical Bullshit."

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

More hysteria from rdean... why am I not surprised?

Oh, yea, it's because every post of his is hysterical bullshit.

Thank god you have yourself to talk to, eh?

 

[shintao]

Um the Democratic Parties money comes from corporatations too AND unions. And the unions spend the money for the Democratic candidates even though half of their membership, who are forced to pay dues, dont support those candidates. Nows thats the real BS.

You could really use a reference with this fantasyland bullshit you are spewing.

 

[shintao]

From the age slavery in Solomon's Mine through the times of Viking and Goth barbarism to the corporate shenanigans of today, class warfare drives Western 'Civilization'... why NOT another thread discussing it? It's a subject both broad and deep.

NOVA | Quest for Solomon's Mines

Barbarians: "Vikings/Goths" & "Mongols/Huns" History Channel

The Citizen: Corporate Shenanigans, Greed And The Will To Fight Back

Why is it conservatives don't see an $8 trillion housing bubble and the subsequent multi- trillion dollar bailout of those who caused and benefited from the inflation and collapse of that bubble as class war?

When it is Government that causes such things? You're kidding...right?

When you talk generalities. Who is government? He is not kidding, you are classic example of voter that can't see.

 

[Dutch]

Get the middle class to fight amongst themselves while the puppet masters in the top 1% sit back and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[The Infidel]

Yep. The agenda is completely clear. No proposals for creating jobs at all. Just destruction of unions, the withdrawal of what little aid this nation gives to it's children, and the forcing of what is left of the middle class into the ranks of the working poor.

Jobs will be created when the unions take their hands from around the throats of the employers... there are laws now that keep big corporations from being able to exploit workers. We have the unions to thank for that.... yes, but the time of union bosses bending corporations over a barrel has got to stop!
This frees up corporations to hire more workers at a fiar wage and everbody wins... if ya dont like the terms an employer is offering, then dont accept the job. Its worked great for me for over 30 yrs.... and no union was there for me.
Then I see my dad, who has been retired for 20 yrs and he is 67 yrs old.... he's been getting a very nice pension the entire time and will until he croaks. How is that sustainalbe???? I mean really.... Im happy for him and folks like him, but damn it.... its going to collapse the system. Just look at the headlines.... I know I am right!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The real answer to this is no tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and no unions. Everyone gets raises on their own performances and pays for their own health care and prepares for their own pensions through IRA's and Plans through companies.

That would help stablize the state budgets with commom sense and lure businesses back to

their state.​

Yeah.....let's hear it for.....

Allowing The Marketplace To Regulate Itself

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Jobs will be created when the unions take their hands from around the throats of the employers...

Pure genius.

You're saying that those 11.9 percent of the workforce in unions have their 'hands around the throats' of 'the employers'?

Do the math for us, stupid.

 

[The Infidel]

Jobs will be created when the unions take their hands from around the throats of the employers...

Pure genius.

You're saying that those 11.9 percent of the workforce in unions have their 'hands around the throats' of 'the employers'?

Do the math for us, stupid.

I'll do the math when you tell us which companies those "11.9%" work for.

I would bet ya that those are some HUGE employers (giant industries)

Your local drugstore or whatever is'nt unionized, but look into the teamsters, auto workers, teachers, etc etc....

 

[AVG-JOE]

Only 7% of Americans in the private sector are part of a union.

Yet, he says unions are the only representation Americans have left.

The poor math alone negates any need for proper response. But I will. He will never, ever, ever bring up this: How can we export jobs, while importing massive numbers of low wage "workers", and still expect our wages to stay the same?

Any individual who supports both unions and illegal immigration is a raging hypocrite. We are importing millions of unskilled, desperate people who will work for next to nothing. Unions supposedly fought to protect "workers" from having to accept those low wages.

So when unions also start protesting the importation of unskilled, desperate labor who is willing to work for far less, then I'll take them seriously.

I'm glad someone brought this up. The invisible hand of "free market economy" (the term is a joke but that's another discussion) is dictating a world equilibrium of wages. Businesses will go where worker protections, material costs, and wages are all low. Until the entire world equalizes...the more developed nations will always suffer.

The way we've won that war in the past is with innovation. You need workers skilled to do something low-rent workers can't be skilled to do. That's why...hate the green movement or not...it's a ripe way to use all the PC bullshit against everyone. A new industry that we can rule and keep our economy afloat.

Unions fight for power. Power which can be good or evil, depending on who's using it. Capiche? I, personally, think that unions are outdated and aggregate too much power and cause stagnancy, but to say they are 100% incapable of affording protections is flat wrong.

There ought to exist the freedom of association, but it can be misused.

From a global perspective, American workers are overpaid. From a conservative free market perspective, American workers are overpaid. Conservative market philosophy dictates that work goes to the cheapest source of labor that is competitive.

That is not a formula for American prosperity.

It can be... but it must be more free than any on earth have yet experienced - every working chump who takes whatever the market will bear him must have the unquestioned right to compete against his boss.

"Sort of" free is almost worse than oppressed. Momma's little bastards are getting a little more "sort of free" with each new generation and though we're experiencing a full swing of the resource allocation pendulum toward 'greed' in America at this moment, the general trend is toward a little more freedom, sort of. to steps in the right direction, no matter how small.

 

[kiwiman127]

Here are some cold hard facts. Wages in real/constant dollars have been in decline.
This is the most current graph I could find.
This clearly shows the working class has lost out while the concentration of wealth continues upwards. That's why the Wealth Gap is at record levels which not one person can factually debunk.

Year Real $ Change
1964 302.52
1965 310.46 2.62%
1966 312.83 0.76%
1967 311.30 -0.49%
1968 315.37 1.31%
1969 316.93 0.49%
1970 312.94 -1.26%
1971 318.05 1.63%
1972 331.59 4.26%
1973 331.39 -0.06%
1974 314.94 -4.96%
1975 305.16 -3.11%
1976 309.61 1.46%
1977 310.99 0.45%
1978 310.41 -0.19%
1979 298.87 -3.72%
1980 281.27 -5.89%
1981 277.35 -1.39%
1982 272.74 -1.66%
1983 277.50 1.75%
1984 279.22 0.62%
1985 276.23 -1.07%
1986 276.11 -0.04%
1987 272.88 -1.17%
1988 270.32 -0.94%
1989 267.27 -1.13%
1990 262.43 -1.81%
1991 258.34 -1.56%
1992 257.95 -0.15%
1993 258.12 0.07%
1994 259.97 0.72%
1995 258.43 -0.59%
1996 259.58 0.44%
1997 265.22 2.17%
1998 271.87 2.51%
1999 274.64 1.02%
2000 275.62 0.36%
2001 275.38 -0.09%
2002 278.91 1.28%
2003 279.94 0.37%
2004 277.57 -0.84%
Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)

It's sad that ideology gets in the way of real life.

 

[georgephillip]

From the age slavery in Solomon's Mine through the times of Viking and Goth barbarism to the corporate shenanigans of today, class warfare drives Western 'Civilization'... why NOT another thread discussing it? It's a subject both broad and deep.

NOVA | Quest for Solomon's Mines

Barbarians: "Vikings/Goths" & "Mongols/Huns" History Channel

The Citizen: Corporate Shenanigans, Greed And The Will To Fight Back

Why is it conservatives don't see an $8 trillion housing bubble and the subsequent multi- trillion dollar bailout of those who caused and benefited from the inflation and collapse of that bubble as class war?

When it is Government that causes such things? You're kidding...right?

Is the Federal Reserve part of government?

How about Goldman Sachs?

Big government and big business conspired to socialize the cost and privatize the profit from the inflation and collapse of a housing bubble.

It's what all governments have done for thousands of years:

Save the richest of the population at the expense of the many.

 

[Douger]

More hysteria from rdean... why am I not surprised?

Oh, yea, it's because every post of his is hysterical bullshit.

I gave up close to half a mil a year, and sold my real estate for three times it's worth, betting on said " hysteria".
I also dumped the dollar and jumped the Euro due to " hysteria"
I then dumped the Euro and went into multiple currency's and foreign, commodity based, ETF's due to " hysteria".

Now I produce my own energy, grow my own food, and make my own bio-fuel for my old Cruiser due to " hysteria".
"Hysteria" is a beautiful guide....... if you find the right "hysterical" sources early on.
No. I'm not headed away from the volcanoes here due to Terral's postings.I could,easily, but I'll chance that one.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you have any educated guesses on what the US economy will look like in November of 2012?

 

[MikeK]

If you don't understand why they were elected, how could you possibly understand what they are doing?

They were elected because of gross ignorance and sheer stupidity. And to understand what they are doing requires only a modicum of intelligence and objective perception.

 

[rdean]

Jobs will be created when the unions take their hands from around the throats of the employers...

Pure genius.

You're saying that those 11.9 percent of the workforce in unions have their 'hands around the throats' of 'the employers'?

Do the math for us, stupid.

I'll do the math when you tell us which companies those "11.9%" work for.

I would bet ya that those are some HUGE employers (giant industries)

Your local drugstore or whatever is'nt unionized, but look into the teamsters, auto workers, teachers, etc etc....

Actually, it's only 7.5%. The other 4% work in government.

Foxcomm employees 600,000 people. Only they moved from here to China between 2001 and 2008 along with another 2.34 million jobs.
The people at Foxcomm work for 51 cents an hour, 60 to 70 hours a week, eat at cafeterias and live in dorms. Republicans want that here. Ahh, the good life.

 

[Vanquish]

Until the cost of living and salary rates are nearly similar for most people across the Earth, equilibrium will occur...and those on top will lower towards the middle. It's just fact. Sucks for America because we're used to being on top. It's great for China and India because they're used to being on bottom.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You think the Middle Class has problems now? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

Unions are about the only real representation that the American Middle Class has left.

Good gawd, UNIONS are the only REAL REPRESENTATION..

Again, how many people belong to UNIONS out of 350million people in the country.?

As you see the people, 64% ain't buying into this crap and they are now getting pissed off, so keep it up..It will be much easier to BUST UP THE UNIONS.

so you bust up the Unions.....at some point down the road after the Employer steps all over the Employee.....guess who comes back?....and we start all over again...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Only 7% of Americans in the private sector are part of a union.

Yet, he says unions are the only representation Americans have left.

The poor math alone negates any need for proper response. But I will. He will never, ever, ever bring up this: How can we export jobs, while importing massive numbers of low wage "workers", and still expect our wages to stay the same?

Any individual who supports both unions and illegal immigration is a raging hypocrite. We are importing millions of unskilled, desperate people who will work for next to nothing. Unions supposedly fought to protect "workers" from having to accept those low wages.

So when unions also start protesting the importation of unskilled, desperate labor who is willing to work for far less, then I'll take them seriously.

The weaker labor is, in any capacity, the poorer the middle class gets.

but Buc has a point.....my Union has always talked about livable wages and yet they back Illegals making less than minimum wage being here,making those wages.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

This isn't rocket science. Follow the money...

Who profits from illegal workers working for desperate wages?

The Republicans are leading the charge to do nothing on I.I. - That's what it means to "Conserve the Status Quo"; to conserve the current directionality of the nations cash flow using all means available.

certainly not my Union.....and hey Joe.....the Democrats are right up there with the ones doing the lead charging....