1 MEELLION Signatures!!!!

[daveman]

Since when do you have a problem with anyone making as much money as they can using any legal means available?

I'm all for Unions doing to WI what they did for Detroit. I think it's time the American people got educated on how unions operate

It's time for people who have never been in a union to keep their mouth closed about what unions do and don't do. Those of us who have have been glad to have been in them. Things were a lot better for the country as a whole when union membership was higher. The economy was better, for one, because middle class Americans were paid better. It's not all about the "job providers."

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

 

[daveman]

His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.

Not what I was asking. He said, "So what the lot of the posters want is teachers to take a large pay cut, no benefits" and "In no way do I see her being overpaid making $36,000 a year. But some here do."

I wanted to know who was saying teachers should take a pay cut and get no benefits, and who was saying they're overpaid.

He hasn't answered. Must be one of those things that "everybody knows", which is leftist code for "I believe it with nothing to back it up."

Hey I ran into that same problem with rightwingers. They said outrageous things so I questioned them on the and was told it "common knowledge" or something along those lines and then they failed or outright refused to substantiate their claims.

Amelia for instance tried in another thread to claim the budget numbers that walker faced were common knowledge but I asked her for a link anyway. She finally provides one and what do you know, her own article admits that walker's adminstration added to the number by passing taxcuts and halting cuts proposed by the previous adminstration. After I pointed that out to her she called me names and ran away. In this thread she tried to post a link to a blog to counter the factcheck article she cited previously. It was hilarious and that is one of the primary reasons I ask for proof. Most of the time rightwingers don't have it.

So, It looks like rightwingers are using the same code. LOL

Given your history of exaggeration and distortion, I don't believe you.

 

[daveman]

LOL denial suits you well.

You do know he's under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

 

[drsmith1072]

Not what I was asking. He said, "So what the lot of the posters want is teachers to take a large pay cut, no benefits" and "In no way do I see her being overpaid making $36,000 a year. But some here do."

I wanted to know who was saying teachers should take a pay cut and get no benefits, and who was saying they're overpaid.

He hasn't answered. Must be one of those things that "everybody knows", which is leftist code for "I believe it with nothing to back it up."

Hey I ran into that same problem with rightwingers. They said outrageous things so I questioned them on the and was told it "common knowledge" or something along those lines and then they failed or outright refused to substantiate their claims.

Amelia for instance tried in another thread to claim the budget numbers that walker faced were common knowledge but I asked her for a link anyway. She finally provides one and what do you know, her own article admits that walker's adminstration added to the number by passing taxcuts and halting cuts proposed by the previous adminstration. After I pointed that out to her she called me names and ran away. In this thread she tried to post a link to a blog to counter the factcheck article she cited previously. It was hilarious and that is one of the primary reasons I ask for proof. Most of the time rightwingers don't have it.

So, It looks like rightwingers are using the same code. LOL

Given your history of exaggeration and distortion, I don't believe you.

WOW more baseless insults. What have I exaggerated and or distorted? please specify.

Oh and here you go.

We had a 3.6 billion dollar hole to fill. This is not in dispute by anyone who actually knows what is going on here.

Then I asked her for a source. After she fought providing one,

Sources? Sources for what? Verification of the 3.6 billion dollar hole Walker needed to fix? Or what?

and by claiming common knowledge,

The most basic number which you can't even get right is 3.6 billion. That is common knowledge.

this is what she finally provided.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin state Rep. Mark Pocan says Gov. Scott Walker

and this is the part that she refused to address after it was pointed out to her.

Walker’s new team revised Doyle’s report in February, estimating the shortfall at $3.6 billion for the biennium.

How did they arrive at that? Was it just a matter of reversing some of Doyle’s assumptions?
Not entirely.

Walker’s package of tax cuts for business and people with health savings accounts, added another $140 million to the projected shortfall -- that’s lost revenue to the state treasury. The cuts were approved in January shortly after he took office.

And the administration added back $1.2 billion in social service spending based on what they say is need that can’t be ignored in the Medicaid entitlement program. That was included in a memo from Budget Director Brian Hayes to the secretary of the Department of Administration, his boss.

The Walker estimate also scrapped the $800 million that Doyle’s aides had included for prospective cuts.
While in office, Doyle asked many agencies -- but not nearly all -- to freeze their budget requests at this year’s level. Those were submitted by his appointees. Under the adjustments by Walker’s appointees, those requests add up to a much larger number.

It seems pretty clear that it states that the revisions made by walker's administration added to the number and his taxcuts were part of the increase. Furthermore, it seems that I was correct about amelia.

 

[drsmith1072]

LOL denial suits you well.

You do know he's under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

aww now you come in with even more baseless crap showing that you are a troll who has nothing valid to offer.

Thanks for nothing. LOL

 

[madasheck]

I'm all for Unions doing to WI what they did for Detroit. I think it's time the American people got educated on how unions operate

It's time for people who have never been in a union to keep their mouth closed about what unions do and don't do. Those of us who have have been glad to have been in them. Things were a lot better for the country as a whole when union membership was higher. The economy was better, for one, because middle class Americans were paid better. It's not all about the "job providers."

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

 

[daveman]

Hey I ran into that same problem with rightwingers. They said outrageous things so I questioned them on the and was told it "common knowledge" or something along those lines and then they failed or outright refused to substantiate their claims.

Amelia for instance tried in another thread to claim the budget numbers that walker faced were common knowledge but I asked her for a link anyway. She finally provides one and what do you know, her own article admits that walker's adminstration added to the number by passing taxcuts and halting cuts proposed by the previous adminstration. After I pointed that out to her she called me names and ran away. In this thread she tried to post a link to a blog to counter the factcheck article she cited previously. It was hilarious and that is one of the primary reasons I ask for proof. Most of the time rightwingers don't have it.

So, It looks like rightwingers are using the same code. LOL

Given your history of exaggeration and distortion, I don't believe you.

WOW more baseless insults. What have I exaggerated and or distorted? please specify.

Oh and here you go.



Then I asked her for a source. After she fought providing one,




and by claiming common knowledge,

The most basic number which you can't even get right is 3.6 billion. That is common knowledge.

this is what she finally provided.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin state Rep. Mark Pocan says Gov. Scott Walker

and this is the part that she refused to address after it was pointed out to her.

Walker’s new team revised Doyle’s report in February, estimating the shortfall at $3.6 billion for the biennium.

How did they arrive at that? Was it just a matter of reversing some of Doyle’s assumptions?
Not entirely.

Walker’s package of tax cuts for business and people with health savings accounts, added another $140 million to the projected shortfall -- that’s lost revenue to the state treasury. The cuts were approved in January shortly after he took office.

And the administration added back $1.2 billion in social service spending based on what they say is need that can’t be ignored in the Medicaid entitlement program. That was included in a memo from Budget Director Brian Hayes to the secretary of the Department of Administration, his boss.

The Walker estimate also scrapped the $800 million that Doyle’s aides had included for prospective cuts.
While in office, Doyle asked many agencies -- but not nearly all -- to freeze their budget requests at this year’s level. Those were submitted by his appointees. Under the adjustments by Walker’s appointees, those requests add up to a much larger number.

It seems pretty clear that it states that the revisions made by walker's administration added to the number and his taxcuts were part of the increase. Furthermore, it seems that I was correct about amelia.

Your own analysis shows that you were right? How very shocking and unprecedented!

 

[daveman]

LOL denial suits you well.

You do know he's under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

aww now you come in with even more baseless crap showing that you are a troll who has nothing valid to offer.

Thanks for nothing. LOL

You do know I'm under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

 

[daveman]

It's time for people who have never been in a union to keep their mouth closed about what unions do and don't do. Those of us who have have been glad to have been in them. Things were a lot better for the country as a whole when union membership was higher. The economy was better, for one, because middle class Americans were paid better. It's not all about the "job providers."

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

 

[Gadawg73]

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.
Unions are fucked up these days. They served a valuable purpose many years ago. They exist now to shield and protect their weakest links and the blank check benefit packages that go with it.
One only has to take a look at the health coverage union contract for GM workers. That contract ITSELF screwed over 500,000 GM retirees and surviving spouses with the gold plated blank check health care benefits it lavished on them.
Most all union pensions are now seriously underfunded. What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

 

[drsmith1072]

Given your history of exaggeration and distortion, I don't believe you.

WOW more baseless insults. What have I exaggerated and or distorted? please specify.

Oh and here you go.



Then I asked her for a source. After she fought providing one,




and by claiming common knowledge,




this is what she finally provided.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin state Rep. Mark Pocan says Gov. Scott Walker

and this is the part that she refused to address after it was pointed out to her.

Walker’s new team revised Doyle’s report in February, estimating the shortfall at $3.6 billion for the biennium.

How did they arrive at that? Was it just a matter of reversing some of Doyle’s assumptions?
Not entirely.

Walker’s package of tax cuts for business and people with health savings accounts, added another $140 million to the projected shortfall -- that’s lost revenue to the state treasury. The cuts were approved in January shortly after he took office.

And the administration added back $1.2 billion in social service spending based on what they say is need that can’t be ignored in the Medicaid entitlement program. That was included in a memo from Budget Director Brian Hayes to the secretary of the Department of Administration, his boss.

The Walker estimate also scrapped the $800 million that Doyle’s aides had included for prospective cuts.
While in office, Doyle asked many agencies -- but not nearly all -- to freeze their budget requests at this year’s level. Those were submitted by his appointees. Under the adjustments by Walker’s appointees, those requests add up to a much larger number.

It seems pretty clear that it states that the revisions made by walker's administration added to the number and his taxcuts were part of the increase. Furthermore, it seems that I was correct about amelia.

Your own analysis shows that you were right? How very shocking and unprecedented!

That's the best nonresponse that you've got? LOL I even asked you to prove your own claim that I exaggerate and distort and you've got nothing.

You can't counter the info and you have no valid counterargument so you just pretend that the info i presented doesn't exist as you refuse to respond to the it. I backed up my arguments now where is your substance?

Oh, you mean you don't have any.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

 

[drsmith1072]

You do know he's under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

aww now you come in with even more baseless crap showing that you are a troll who has nothing valid to offer.

Thanks for nothing. LOL

You do know I'm under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

Dave want a cracker?? LOL thanks for parroting the same nonsensical crap. I apologize that I ever expected you to act like an adult and actually have a conversation instead of just trolling in by insulting people while offering nothing valid to the debate.

So again thanks for nothing.

 

[drsmith1072]

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.

Unions are fucked up these days. They served a valuable purpose many years ago. They exist now to shield and protect their weakest links and the blank check benefit packages that go with it.

thanks for the baseless opinion got any substance to support it?

One only has to take a look at the health coverage union contract for GM workers. That contract ITSELF screwed over 500,000 GM retirees and surviving spouses with the gold plated blank check health care benefits it lavished on them.

got a link?

Most all union pensions are now seriously underfunded.

based on the economy and the meltdown aren't most pensions in general underfunded? So why single out unions?

What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

again thanks for the opinions and have a nice day.

 

[Claudette]

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.



thanks for the baseless opinion got any substance to support it?



got a link?

Most all union pensions are now seriously underfunded.

based on the economy and the meltdown aren't most pensions in general underfunded? So why single out unions?

What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

again thanks for the opinions and have a nice day.

Its my opinion as well and I'm a Public Sector worker. Have a nice day.

 

[drsmith1072]

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.



thanks for the baseless opinion got any substance to support it?



got a link?



based on the economy and the meltdown aren't most pensions in general underfunded? So why single out unions?

What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

again thanks for the opinions and have a nice day.

Its my opinion as well and I'm a Public Sector worker. Have a nice day.

What exactly are you responding to??

 

[daveman]

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.
Unions are fucked up these days. They served a valuable purpose many years ago. They exist now to shield and protect their weakest links and the blank check benefit packages that go with it.
One only has to take a look at the health coverage union contract for GM workers. That contract ITSELF screwed over 500,000 GM retirees and surviving spouses with the gold plated blank check health care benefits it lavished on them.
Most all union pensions are now seriously underfunded. What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

Indeed.

Unions have become what they were organized to protect workers against: Exploiters of workers.

 

[daveman]

WOW more baseless insults. What have I exaggerated and or distorted? please specify.

Oh and here you go.



Then I asked her for a source. After she fought providing one,




and by claiming common knowledge,




this is what she finally provided.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin state Rep. Mark Pocan says Gov. Scott Walker

and this is the part that she refused to address after it was pointed out to her.



It seems pretty clear that it states that the revisions made by walker's administration added to the number and his taxcuts were part of the increase. Furthermore, it seems that I was correct about amelia.

Your own analysis shows that you were right? How very shocking and unprecedented!

That's the best nonresponse that you've got? LOL I even asked you to prove your own claim that I exaggerate and distort and you've got nothing.

You can't counter the info and you have no valid counterargument so you just pretend that the info i presented doesn't exist as you refuse to respond to the it. I backed up my arguments now where is your substance?

Oh, you mean you don't have any.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

Oh, please. You'd never acknowledge your exaggerations and distortions. I'm not jumping through your hoops just so you can say, "Nuh-UH!!"

Again: Your fantasies are your own. Don't demand validation from the rest of us.

 

[daveman]

aww now you come in with even more baseless crap showing that you are a troll who has nothing valid to offer.

Thanks for nothing. LOL

You do know I'm under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

Dave want a cracker?? LOL thanks for parroting the same nonsensical crap. I apologize that I ever expected you to act like an adult and actually have a conversation instead of just trolling in by insulting people while offering nothing valid to the debate.

So again thanks for nothing.

You don't like the way I post? Then put me on ignore. I'm not changing to suit your tender sensibilities, Snowflake, no matter how much you pout and stamp your feet.

 

[daveman]

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.

We're not talking about the military, genius.

Hint: This would be one of those exaggerations and distortions we were talking about.

 

[sitarro]

I'm all for Unions doing to WI what they did for Detroit. I think it's time the American people got educated on how unions operate

It's time for people who have never been in a union to keep their mouth closed about what unions do and don't do. Those of us who have have been glad to have been in them. Things were a lot better for the country as a whole when union membership was higher. The economy was better, for one, because middle class Americans were paid better. It's not all about the "job providers."

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

I tried to tell my coworkers before our union vote that with the amount that they will confiscate from our check each month times 4,000 workers, we could hire an entire law firm. The dimwits said it had to be a union and they wanted the Teamster cult. We ended up with IAM and I've heard they are under investigation for fraud........ what a surprise. Like you said Dave, the only people that have benefitted are the fuck-ups, I haven't.
There was a guy with 20 years at the company that fell asleep inside the front part of a 737 engine in front of the concourse windows where all the people that were getting on that plane could see him. He was fired of course but the Teamsters got him his job back. I wouldn't want to work with someone so irresponsible. Suppose his keys had dropped out of his pocket and were ingested in that engine...... a million and a half and possible injuries........ he deserved to be fired and stay fired.