1 MEELLION Signatures!!!!

[drsmith1072]

Your own analysis shows that you were right? How very shocking and unprecedented!

That's the best nonresponse that you've got? LOL I even asked you to prove your own claim that I exaggerate and distort and you've got nothing.

You can't counter the info and you have no valid counterargument so you just pretend that the info i presented doesn't exist as you refuse to respond to the it. I backed up my arguments now where is your substance?

Oh, you mean you don't have any.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

Oh, please. You'd never acknowledge your exaggerations and distortions. I'm not jumping through your hoops just so you can say, "Nuh-UH!!"

Again: Your fantasies are your own. Don't demand validation from the rest of us.

In other words you've got NOTHING real or valid to offer to support your allegations.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

You do know I'm under no obligation to rubber-stamp your fantasies, right?

Dave want a cracker?? LOL thanks for parroting the same nonsensical crap. I apologize that I ever expected you to act like an adult and actually have a conversation instead of just trolling in by insulting people while offering nothing valid to the debate.

So again thanks for nothing.

You don't like the way I post? Then put me on ignore. I'm not changing to suit your tender sensibilities, Snowflake, no matter how much you pout and stamp your feet.

Says the troll who can only attack me personaly while failing to respond to any of the content I have provided. I am sitting here all nice and calmly asking you to defend your allegations and you are the one getting irate and whining about it.

It's funny, all I ask is that rightwingers hold themselves to the very same standard of proof that they hold others to and that infuriates them. They can't be bothered to substantiate their own claims as they argue it's "common knowledge" or defend their allegations even though that is exactly what they demand from others.

Oh well, thanks again for nothing.

 

[drsmith1072]

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.

We're not talking about the military, genius.

Hint: This would be one of those exaggerations and distortions we were talking about.

Actually the situation fits quite well. One poster offered an opinion on a situation from alleged lockheed employees and said he disagreed with it and I offered a counter opinion and an example to support my opinion and said I have no problem with it.

So how is that an exaggeration or a distortion?? Did I say that lockheed does everything exactly like the military? NO.

Oh wait this is just another exaggeration and distorition from you because I dared to call you out for your false allegations against me now you have to troll in and attack me personally no matter how much you have to exaggerate or distort to try and make your baseless personal attacks stick.

Thanks again for nothing.

edit: here is a link to a lawsuit by a lockheed martin employee who sued after being "reclassified" from one job position to another because she thought she was being discriminated against. Second page on the left. The case is not important but the fact is that they used the same terminology that I did.

http://www.islerdare.com/documents/Zackrie_v_Lockheed_Martin.pdf

 

[daveman]

It's time for people who have never been in a union to keep their mouth closed about what unions do and don't do. Those of us who have have been glad to have been in them. Things were a lot better for the country as a whole when union membership was higher. The economy was better, for one, because middle class Americans were paid better. It's not all about the "job providers."

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

I tried to tell my coworkers before our union vote that with the amount that they will confiscate from our check each month times 4,000 workers, we could hire an entire law firm. The dimwits said it had to be a union and they wanted the Teamster cult. We ended up with IAM and I've heard they are under investigation for fraud........ what a surprise. Like you said Dave, the only people that have benefitted are the fuck-ups, I haven't.
There was a guy with 20 years at the company that fell asleep inside the front part of a 737 engine in front of the concourse windows where all the people that were getting on that plane could see him. He was fired of course but the Teamsters got him his job back. I wouldn't want to work with someone so irresponsible. Suppose his keys had dropped out of his pocket and were ingested in that engine...... a million and a half and possible injuries........ he deserved to be fired and stay fired.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was a member of the UMW. If he couldn't do it sitting down, he didn't do it. And it was a construction job.

 

[daveman]

That's the best nonresponse that you've got? LOL I even asked you to prove your own claim that I exaggerate and distort and you've got nothing.

You can't counter the info and you have no valid counterargument so you just pretend that the info i presented doesn't exist as you refuse to respond to the it. I backed up my arguments now where is your substance?

Oh, you mean you don't have any.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

Oh, please. You'd never acknowledge your exaggerations and distortions. I'm not jumping through your hoops just so you can say, "Nuh-UH!!"

Again: Your fantasies are your own. Don't demand validation from the rest of us.

In other words you've got NOTHING real or valid to offer to support your allegations.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

LOL

Of course, your definition of "valid" is "anything that agrees with me".

 

[daveman]

Dave want a cracker?? LOL thanks for parroting the same nonsensical crap. I apologize that I ever expected you to act like an adult and actually have a conversation instead of just trolling in by insulting people while offering nothing valid to the debate.

So again thanks for nothing.

You don't like the way I post? Then put me on ignore. I'm not changing to suit your tender sensibilities, Snowflake, no matter how much you pout and stamp your feet.

Says the troll who can only attack me personaly while failing to respond to any of the content I have provided. I am sitting here all nice and calmly asking you to defend your allegations and you are the one getting irate and whining about it.

It's funny, all I ask is that rightwingers hold themselves to the very same standard of proof that they hold others to and that infuriates them. They can't be bothered to substantiate their own claims as they argue it's "common knowledge" or defend their allegations even though that is exactly what they demand from others.

Oh well, thanks again for nothing.

Irate? Whining?

More exaggeration and distortion. Thanks for proving me right.

 

[Gadawg73]

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.



thanks for the baseless opinion got any substance to support it?



got a link?

Most all union pensions are now seriously underfunded.

based on the economy and the meltdown aren't most pensions in general underfunded? So why single out unions?

What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

again thanks for the opinions and have a nice day.

You do not know there are 500,000 GM retirees and spouses?

 

[daveman]

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.

We're not talking about the military, genius.

Hint: This would be one of those exaggerations and distortions we were talking about.

Actually the situation fits quite well. One poster offered an opinion on a situation from alleged lockheed employees and said he disagreed with it and I offered a counter opinion and an example to support my opinion and said I have no problem with it.

So how is that an exaggeration or a distortion?? Did I say that lockheed does everything exactly like the military? NO.

Oh wait this is just another exaggeration and distorition from you because I dared to call you out for your false allegations against me now you have to troll in and attack me personally no matter how much you have to exaggerate or distort to try and make your baseless personal attacks stick.

Thanks again for nothing.

edit: here is a link to a lawsuit by a lockheed martin employee who sued after being "reclassified" from one job position to another because she thought she was being discriminated against. Second page on the left. The case is not important but the fact is that they used the same terminology that I did.

http://www.islerdare.com/documents/Zackrie_v_Lockheed_Martin.pdf

Stamp your feet and pout some more.

We weren't discussing the military. Period. It wasn't a valid comparison. Deal with it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ahem.

His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.

I'll take that underpaid job with it's nice juicy benefits worth over 30k a year with a pension plan the envy of california.

What did I tell you...These libs are as predictable as a cloudy day in Seattle...
Here's what drsmith wrote....So you insult me and call me names and then try to "scare" me away by "predicting" that I will respond in kind and call you out for your cowardice and dishonesty. Way to go nostradumbass. You predicted that I would willing defend myself from your false allegations and lies as you run away from a debate that you know you lost.

The fact that you have to run to fitz for support and a shoulder to cry on says it all.
Of course we have the typical lib fall back position whenever they lose a debate.
"Insulted me" and "liar"....
All boringly predictable.

 

[drsmith1072]

Oh, please. You'd never acknowledge your exaggerations and distortions. I'm not jumping through your hoops just so you can say, "Nuh-UH!!"

Again: Your fantasies are your own. Don't demand validation from the rest of us.

In other words you've got NOTHING real or valid to offer to support your allegations.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

LOL

Of course, your definition of "valid" is "anything that agrees with me".

Actually valid would be you showing an actual list of posts of mine to show a history of exaggeration and distortion to PROVE your allegation that I have.

The fact that you have to try to play with the wording as you dishonestly try to put words into my mouth and argue how "I" define a word instead of actually substantiating your own allegation tends to show that you can't.

I countered your last attempt to claim I exaggerated and distorted but I seriously doubt that you will respond with anything other than more of the same trolling that you are engaging in now.

Thanks again for nothing. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

You don't like the way I post? Then put me on ignore. I'm not changing to suit your tender sensibilities, Snowflake, no matter how much you pout and stamp your feet.

Says the troll who can only attack me personaly while failing to respond to any of the content I have provided. I am sitting here all nice and calmly asking you to defend your allegations and you are the one getting irate and whining about it.

It's funny, all I ask is that rightwingers hold themselves to the very same standard of proof that they hold others to and that infuriates them. They can't be bothered to substantiate their own claims as they argue it's "common knowledge" or defend their allegations even though that is exactly what they demand from others.

Oh well, thanks again for nothing.

Irate? Whining?

More exaggeration and distortion. Thanks for proving me right.

Nope you were pretty much irate when you came at me with all of your trolling insults and name calling as you whined up a storm trying to make lame excuses for refusing to substantiate your own claims, so how is anything I said an exaggeration or distortion?

Got proof? You do know that PROOF is required in order to actually PROVE a point and since you haven't provided anythng showing that you were not irate or whining then you haven't proven anything other than you are desperate to declare victory when you own failure to substantiate your claims shows that you are so far behind.

 

[Conservative]

Says the troll who can only attack me personaly while failing to respond to any of the content I have provided. I am sitting here all nice and calmly asking you to defend your allegations and you are the one getting irate and whining about it.

It's funny, all I ask is that rightwingers hold themselves to the very same standard of proof that they hold others to and that infuriates them. They can't be bothered to substantiate their own claims as they argue it's "common knowledge" or defend their allegations even though that is exactly what they demand from others.

Oh well, thanks again for nothing.

Irate? Whining?

More exaggeration and distortion. Thanks for proving me right.

Nope you were pretty much irate when you came at me with all of your trolling insults and name calling as you whined up a storm trying to make lame excuses for refusing to substantiate your own claims, so how is anything I said an exaggeration or distortion?

Got proof? You do know that PROOF is required in order to actually PROVE a point and since you haven't provided anythng showing that you were not irate or whining then you haven't proven anything other than you are desperate to declare victory when you own failure to substantiate your claims shows that you are so far behind.

 

[drsmith1072]

The watering hole I attend has numerous Lockheed employees there.
I have heard that same story dozens of times.
And the one that is really the killer: if someone is laid off and has a certain job description and wants to go down a notch and take another job well hell no. Why? Because the job description of the job below them has a different job description so management can not do that. They have to re-label you to fit the job description of that job along with the pay scale for it.

uh it's called reclassification and it's standard procedure in the military. They can't have you classified under one MOS and do another MOS's job. I really fail to see the problem with that.



thanks for the baseless opinion got any substance to support it?



got a link?



based on the economy and the meltdown aren't most pensions in general underfunded? So why single out unions?

What a shocker that is. Employees should be responsible for their own retirement through 401Ks, IRAs and their own savings just like the rest of us.

again thanks for the opinions and have a nice day.

You do not know there are 500,000 GM retirees and spouses?

And do you have an actual point to make or are you just asking questions for the sake of asking them?? Furthermore, how does that address or answer the questions that i asked you about your statements?

 

[drsmith1072]

We're not talking about the military, genius.

Hint: This would be one of those exaggerations and distortions we were talking about.

Actually the situation fits quite well. One poster offered an opinion on a situation from alleged lockheed employees and said he disagreed with it and I offered a counter opinion and an example to support my opinion and said I have no problem with it.

So how is that an exaggeration or a distortion?? Did I say that lockheed does everything exactly like the military? NO.

Oh wait this is just another exaggeration and distorition from you because I dared to call you out for your false allegations against me now you have to troll in and attack me personally no matter how much you have to exaggerate or distort to try and make your baseless personal attacks stick.

Thanks again for nothing.

edit: here is a link to a lawsuit by a lockheed martin employee who sued after being "reclassified" from one job position to another because she thought she was being discriminated against. Second page on the left. The case is not important but the fact is that they used the same terminology that I did.

http://www.islerdare.com/documents/Zackrie_v_Lockheed_Martin.pdf

Stamp your feet and pout some more.

We weren't discussing the military. Period. It wasn't a valid comparison. Deal with it.

LOL are you really that mentally challenged? I wasn"t making a direct comparison. I named the process and gave an example of the process used in the military. Gadawg was saying lockheed employees were compaining about it and at no time did I say or claim that he was talking about the military. However, thanks for distorting what I actually said.

Then I found an example that showed that I used the correct terminology proving my argument that it is referred to as "reclassification".

You know it amazes me that you can be proven wrong and still declare victory as you pretend facts that counter your spin don't exist. LOL

I the end you tried to call me out for an exaggeration and distortion when I did nothing of the sort and end up exposing yourself as exaggerating and distorting what I said.

You just keep on digging that hole you are in. LOL

P.S. claiming that i am "stomping my feet and pouting" as you try to demean me because you obviously have no valid arguments to offer is an exaggeration on your part.

 

[drsmith1072]

His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.

I'll take that underpaid job with it's nice juicy benefits worth over 30k a year with a pension plan the envy of california.

What did I tell you...These libs are as predictable as a cloudy day in Seattle...
Here's what drsmith wrote....So you insult me and call me names and then try to "scare" me away by "predicting" that I will respond in kind and call you out for your cowardice and dishonesty. Way to go nostradumbass. You predicted that I would willing defend myself from your false allegations and lies as you run away from a debate that you know you lost.

The fact that you have to run to fitz for support and a shoulder to cry on says it all.
Of course we have the typical lib fall back position whenever they lose a debate.
"Insulted me" and "liar"....
All boringly predictable.

So you ran to fitz for support again?? How freaking sad is that?

LOL

Unlike you I will stand by what i said and if you have anything real to offer to counter anything I said i will gladly respond.
However, since you turned tail and ran away after losing the debate I sincerely doubt that you will offer anything more than more of the usual namecalling and trolling. Thanks again for nothing.

Tell us again how taxpayers are footing the bill for public sector pay and benefits while the public sector don't or contribute very little even thought they are taxpayers too. LOL

You rightwingers have continually tried to pit taxpayers against public sector workers and the major flaw in your argument, which you continually refuse to address, is that public workers ARE taxpayers. Due to that inherent flaw in your argument it is doomed to fail everytime you try to present it.

Attacking me personally and running to other trolls for help will not change that.

 

[madasheck]

I've been in two unions. Neither did anything for me except take dues out of my paycheck.

I took a grievance to the shop steward once. She told me to shut up and get back to work.

So was she looking out for my interests?

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

In my experience, that's an exception. All the union people I've known in multiple industries have worked their butts off. I've seen many hard working people who are union members. And to the extent that there still are union members, I think that pretty much holds true. Of course, in any example, there are exceptions. But I think the majority works hard, especially the way things are now.

 

[Big Fitz]

His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.

I'll take that underpaid job with it's nice juicy benefits worth over 30k a year with a pension plan the envy of california.

What did I tell you...These libs are as predictable as a cloudy day in Seattle...
Here's what drsmith wrote....So you insult me and call me names and then try to "scare" me away by "predicting" that I will respond in kind and call you out for your cowardice and dishonesty. Way to go nostradumbass. You predicted that I would willing defend myself from your false allegations and lies as you run away from a debate that you know you lost.

The fact that you have to run to fitz for support and a shoulder to cry on says it all.
Of course we have the typical lib fall back position whenever they lose a debate.
"Insulted me" and "liar"....
All boringly predictable.

Yep. In honor or his persistance:

 

[initforme]

"His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.


Spoken by one who COULD NEVER operate a classroom of today. You are one who wants them to work for free. Gutless
__________________

 

[initforme]

"Oh yea. A woman's place is in the home.
Lots of people can balance family and career. They raise fine people.
Perhaps it is the environment your daughter's students grow up in or it is the adults as individuals who cannot control themselves. Either way, you don't get to make such broad brush generalizations without being called on them.
I find your holier than thou attitude to be WAY out of line.
You are an arrogant elitist.


Ahhhh, I feel bad. LOL

 

[daveman]

In other words you've got NOTHING real or valid to offer to support your allegations.

Thanks for proving that you have nothing valid to offer and that it's you and not I who has a tendency for exaggeration and distortion.

LOL

Of course, your definition of "valid" is "anything that agrees with me".

Actually valid would be you showing an actual list of posts of mine to show a history of exaggeration and distortion to PROVE your allegation that I have.

The fact that you have to try to play with the wording as you dishonestly try to put words into my mouth and argue how "I" define a word instead of actually substantiating your own allegation tends to show that you can't.

I countered your last attempt to claim I exaggerated and distorted but I seriously doubt that you will respond with anything other than more of the same trolling that you are engaging in now.

Thanks again for nothing. LOL