1 MEELLION Signatures!!!!

[daveman]

Says the troll who can only attack me personaly while failing to respond to any of the content I have provided. I am sitting here all nice and calmly asking you to defend your allegations and you are the one getting irate and whining about it.

It's funny, all I ask is that rightwingers hold themselves to the very same standard of proof that they hold others to and that infuriates them. They can't be bothered to substantiate their own claims as they argue it's "common knowledge" or defend their allegations even though that is exactly what they demand from others.

Oh well, thanks again for nothing.

Irate? Whining?

More exaggeration and distortion. Thanks for proving me right.

Nope you were pretty much irate when you came at me with all of your trolling insults and name calling as you whined up a storm trying to make lame excuses for refusing to substantiate your own claims, so how is anything I said an exaggeration or distortion?

Got proof? You do know that PROOF is required in order to actually PROVE a point and since you haven't provided anythng showing that you were not irate or whining then you haven't proven anything other than you are desperate to declare victory when you own failure to substantiate your claims shows that you are so far behind.

I'm sure it comforts your fragile ego to feel that way, Snowflake, but you do nothing but prove I'm right.

Maybe you should threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue...

 

[daveman]

Actually the situation fits quite well. One poster offered an opinion on a situation from alleged lockheed employees and said he disagreed with it and I offered a counter opinion and an example to support my opinion and said I have no problem with it.

So how is that an exaggeration or a distortion?? Did I say that lockheed does everything exactly like the military? NO.

Oh wait this is just another exaggeration and distorition from you because I dared to call you out for your false allegations against me now you have to troll in and attack me personally no matter how much you have to exaggerate or distort to try and make your baseless personal attacks stick.

Thanks again for nothing.

edit: here is a link to a lawsuit by a lockheed martin employee who sued after being "reclassified" from one job position to another because she thought she was being discriminated against. Second page on the left. The case is not important but the fact is that they used the same terminology that I did.

http://www.islerdare.com/documents/Zackrie_v_Lockheed_Martin.pdf

Stamp your feet and pout some more.

We weren't discussing the military. Period. It wasn't a valid comparison. Deal with it.

LOL are you really that mentally challenged? I wasn"t making a direct comparison. I named the process and gave an example of the process used in the military. Gadawg was saying lockheed employees were compaining about it and at no time did I say or claim that he was talking about the military. However, thanks for distorting what I actually said.

Then I found an example that showed that I used the correct terminology proving my argument that it is referred to as "reclassification".

You know it amazes me that you can be proven wrong and still declare victory as you pretend facts that counter your spin don't exist. LOL

I the end you tried to call me out for an exaggeration and distortion when I did nothing of the sort and end up exposing yourself as exaggerating and distorting what I said.

You just keep on digging that hole you are in. LOL

P.S. claiming that i am "stomping my feet and pouting" as you try to demean me because you obviously have no valid arguments to offer is an exaggeration on your part.

*yawn* Yeah, yeah, you're the smartest guy in the room. We get it.

Everybody kiss Doc's butt. He's entitled to it. Just ask him.

 

[daveman]

I'd be interested to know something about the union. You don't have to be real specific. Was it a government union or attached to an industry?

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

In my experience, that's an exception. All the union people I've known in multiple industries have worked their butts off. I've seen many hard working people who are union members. And to the extent that there still are union members, I think that pretty much holds true. Of course, in any example, there are exceptions. But I think the majority works hard, especially the way things are now.

My experience does not support that view.

 

[daveman]

"His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.


Spoken by one who COULD NEVER operate a classroom of today. You are one who wants them to work for free. Gutless
__________________

Nobody wants people to work for free. That's just plain stupid. Please stop repeating that moronic leftist talking point.

 

[Big Fitz]

"His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.


Spoken by one who COULD NEVER operate a classroom of today. You are one who wants them to work for free. Gutless
__________________

Nobody wants people to work for free. That's just plain stupid. Please stop repeating that moronic leftist talking point.

Nor should anyone 'live for free' either.

Once again for the terminally slow.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/en...um-wage-has-more-disposable-income-family-mak

 

[thereisnospoon]

"His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.


Spoken by one who COULD NEVER operate a classroom of today. You are one who wants them to work for free. Gutless
__________________

Who said anything about working for free? You made that up..That is the definition of a straw man argument.
Tell us..Is being asked to contribute 10 or 15% of one's health insurance cost ( private sector workers often pay 50% or more)?
Is it unreasonable to ask for 5 or 10% contribution to one's lifetime pension( private sector workers do not have defined benefit pensions)?
Is it working for free when the taxpayers demand the end of the politician/union relationship where the taxpayer, the one who actually pays what they are told so that public workers CAN get a wage and great benefits?
Because it is not practical for the taxpayers to be present at the union contract negotiations, they have been also left out. That is until they get their property tax bill. By then it's too late. This process has been repeated over and over for decades. Unions have been able to demand and receive more and more for their members. The situation has reached critical mass. State and municipal budgets are over capacity and the ability to practically increase taxes has exhausted.
Something has to give. For all these decades the public employees protected by unions and civil service rules have never had to sacrifice. It is their turn. The unions have been feeding at the public trough and have gorged themselves. The people have said in a loud unified voice "NO MORE".
Most of us value our public servants. However we want a level playing field. We want their wages and benefits to simply match the private sector.

 

[daveman]

"His daughter makes $36K in nine months. Not even for a full year. That doesn't count any money they make from summer employment which thousands do. That is NOT an underpaid job.


Spoken by one who COULD NEVER operate a classroom of today. You are one who wants them to work for free. Gutless
__________________

Nobody wants people to work for free. That's just plain stupid. Please stop repeating that moronic leftist talking point.

Nor should anyone 'live for free' either.

Once again for the terminally slow.

In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year | ZeroHedge

Now, that's different. People should get paid a lot, but not have to pay to live.

Or so the OWS crowd says. But then, they're all idiots.

 

[initforme]

Perhaps the private sector employers need to quit being so cheap and pay their workers more than simply what the market calls for. Thats how I keep my employees. I could hire workers for less, but what kind of business sense would that make when the work quality would go down? I just want to make sure my workers (the ones who I owe for the money they have created for me) are paid more than what the crooked market calls for. And every other employer out there who is WORTH ANYTHING would do the same. Those that have sold out to other countries because labor is cheaper are clearly anti american business owners. This simply cannot be argued against.

 

[Big Fitz]

Perhaps the private sector employers need to quit being so cheap and pay their workers more than simply what the market calls for. Thats how I keep my employees. I could hire workers for less, but what kind of business sense would that make when the work quality would go down? I just want to make sure my workers (the ones who I owe for the money they have created for me) are paid more than what the crooked market calls for. And every other employer out there who is WORTH ANYTHING would do the same. Those that have sold out to other countries because labor is cheaper are clearly anti american business owners. This simply cannot be argued against.

As a former AGM for the hospitality industry, I did my fair share of hiring and firing. You get what you pay for in regards to pay for the most part. If you want retards unable to handle checking someone in if the key card machine goes down? Don't pay very much. But if you want seriously qualified individuals, you have to pay more because those with the skills know their value. Bank tellers and Gas Station attendants don't have the skills OR realize how little value they really have. I'd never hire either of those groups again for hospitality because of how bad they were, but at least the Gas Station attendants knew their value more than the bank tellers who thought fancy clothes equaled more money, not skill at their job.

The next point is of course, are you going to pay an incompetent employee lots of money? No. Are you going to pay them so much you lose money? No. You want to find that sweet spot where you get the best value FOR your money. Cretins are cheap, but they cost you in training and lost business as well as high turnover. This costs you more in the long run. At least it sounds like you've got that part figured out Init. The government hasn't. The unions hate the idea of being justifying their wages with performance because it undermines the solidarity that gives them power.

 

[The T]

Nobody wants people to work for free. That's just plain stupid. Please stop repeating that moronic leftist talking point.

Nor should anyone 'live for free' either.

Once again for the terminally slow.

In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year | ZeroHedge

Now, that's different. People should get paid a lot, but not have to pay to live.

Or so the OWS crowd says. But then, they're all idiots.

And those would be the individuals that have found out that the Liberals have lied to them in Gubmnt schools...but are so stupid have retained liberal traits, and refuse to think for themselves as they know they lost.

 

[initforme]

I never have

1) had to check my employees work...I know its good. Why? Because they went to school after HS to learn their trade(which immediately shows me they have the drive over those who simply chose to work after graduation...those are the slackers who I wont hire....EVER)
2) inspect work quality...rarely do I go to the job site to make sure its done right. It always is.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

 

[Big Fitz]

I never have

1) had to check my employees work...I know its good. Why? Because they went to school after HS to learn their trade(which immediately shows me they have the drive over those who simply chose to work after graduation...those are the slackers who I wont hire....EVER)
2) inspect work quality...rarely do I go to the job site to make sure its done right. It always is.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

Congrats, right here, you nailed why government should be out of education, among most other jobs it does.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

The incompetents are protected more than the good workers. The quality is always poor, and the turnover, if not for the union would be far higher.

 

[The T]

I never have

1) had to check my employees work...I know its good. Why? Because they went to school after HS to learn their trade(which immediately shows me they have the drive over those who simply chose to work after graduation...those are the slackers who I wont hire....EVER)
2) inspect work quality...rarely do I go to the job site to make sure its done right. It always is.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

Congrats, right here, you nailed why government should be out of education, among most other jobs it does.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

The incompetents are protected more than the good workers. The quality is always poor, and the turnover, if not for the union would be far higher.

Tenure is a bad thing.

 

[Big Fitz]

I never have

1) had to check my employees work...I know its good. Why? Because they went to school after HS to learn their trade(which immediately shows me they have the drive over those who simply chose to work after graduation...those are the slackers who I wont hire....EVER)
2) inspect work quality...rarely do I go to the job site to make sure its done right. It always is.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

Congrats, right here, you nailed why government should be out of education, among most other jobs it does.

A high turnover rate is ALWAYS and INEVITABLY the sign of a POORLY RUN BUSINESS. One which pays so little that even the good workers leave. Therefore, those businesses in my mind would be better off SHUT DOWN. I see places that have frequent turnover as offering low quality products. If the employees arent proud of their work, the business needs to look in the mirro and fix its ways. Thats what owning a business is all about.

The incompetents are protected more than the good workers. The quality is always poor, and the turnover, if not for the union would be far higher.

Tenure is a bad thing.

Ward Churchill was just a shining example as to why.

 

[initforme]

Any business with turnover is the sign of a poorly run business. If they are there soley for more and more profits they should be shunned by any quality worker. HOPEFULLY, they shut down QUICKLY because there cannot be a balance between work quality and employee wages.

 

[The T]

Congrats, right here, you nailed why government should be out of education, among most other jobs it does.



The incompetents are protected more than the good workers. The quality is always poor, and the turnover, if not for the union would be far higher.

Tenure is a bad thing.

Ward Churchill was just a shining example as to why.

No joke...as is Obama's pal Bill Ayers...

 

[initforme]

Those that chose not to go for further education after HS should be automatically turned away for their work quality, knowledge, and work ethic lags far behind those that get more education.

 

[Big Fitz]

Those that chose not to go for further education after HS should be automatically turned away for their work quality, knowledge, and work ethic lags far behind those that get more education.

Tell that to Harlan Sanders and Dave Thomas.

College is NOT an absolute gauge of drive or quality. It is very often a hinderence for many in becoming the successful people they can ultimately be. Of course that is not for all work and industry, but not all work and industry NEEDS that path in life.

A college degree is neither a guarantor or predictor of success, quality or drive.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Perhaps the private sector employers need to quit being so cheap and pay their workers more than simply what the market calls for. Thats how I keep my employees. I could hire workers for less, but what kind of business sense would that make when the work quality would go down? I just want to make sure my workers (the ones who I owe for the money they have created for me) are paid more than what the crooked market calls for. And every other employer out there who is WORTH ANYTHING would do the same. Those that have sold out to other countries because labor is cheaper are clearly anti american business owners. This simply cannot be argued against.

Ok....The market is crooked? Jesus Christ.
You have already been told your situation is unique. Yet you insist every business is the same.
Ya know what? I think you are full of shit. I think you do not own a business and are making up all this nonsense.
I have run two businesses and presently assist in the operation of one now. I know other business owners. All micro or small business. All with low margins. Often these people pay their employees and do not write themselves a paycheck in a given week so that their people can be paid. Such is the case of many small business owners.
For you to state that all business business owners that do not mimic your preferred method of compensation as being "cheap" is the epitome of arrogance.
You haven't fucking clue what the real world is like.
You can tell all the stories you like about your alleged business. Guess what? What you state about how business makes no sense. And when something does not make sense, it usually is not true.
No one and I mean no one in business for themselves would or even could afford to do what you claim.... So unless you ca provide some kind of proof your alleged business even exists, I am calling bullshit on your entire line of posts here. I think you are a seminar poster.

 

[Big Fitz]

Perhaps the private sector employers need to quit being so cheap and pay their workers more than simply what the market calls for. Thats how I keep my employees. I could hire workers for less, but what kind of business sense would that make when the work quality would go down? I just want to make sure my workers (the ones who I owe for the money they have created for me) are paid more than what the crooked market calls for. And every other employer out there who is WORTH ANYTHING would do the same. Those that have sold out to other countries because labor is cheaper are clearly anti american business owners. This simply cannot be argued against.

Ok....The market is crooked? Jesus Christ.
You have already been told your situation is unique. Yet you insist every business is the same.
Ya know what? I think you are full of shit. I think you do not own a business and are making up all this nonsense.
I have run two businesses and presently assist in the operation of one now. I know other business owners. All micro or small business. All with low margins. Often these people pay their employees and do not write themselves a paycheck in a given week so that their people can be paid. Such is the case of many small business owners.
For you to state that all business business owners that do not mimic your preferred method of compensation as being "cheap" is the epitome of arrogance.
You haven't fucking clue what the real world is like.
You can tell all the stories you like about your alleged business. Guess what? What you state about how business makes no sense. And when something does not make sense, it usually is not true.
No one and I mean no one in business for themselves would or even could afford to do what you claim.... So unless you ca provide some kind of proof your alleged business even exists, I am calling bullshit on your entire line of posts here. I think you are a seminar poster.

at least I can say I've been business management AND a failed entrepreneur. I know how business is NOT supposed to work and what real value can look like.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFTs1T8IZLo]Back to School (1986) - Thornton Melon's "How to Start a Business" - YouTube[/ame]

The most honest business lecture ever given, by Rodney Dangerfield.