1 MEELLION Signatures!!!!

[madasheck]

It was a Florsheim Shoe factory. I don't remember the union.

Every floor employee was paid an hourly rate plus production based on how many pairs of shoes they worked on. One other employee and me both handled every single pair of shoes that left the factory. I told the shop steward it wasn't fair that our pay depended on how hard everyone else worked (or didn't, as the case may be).

She told me to shut the hell up and get back to work.

In my experience, that's an exception. All the union people I've known in multiple industries have worked their butts off. I've seen many hard working people who are union members. And to the extent that there still are union members, I think that pretty much holds true. Of course, in any example, there are exceptions. But I think the majority works hard, especially the way things are now.

My experience does not support that view.

That's fine, dave, but at least allow for the fact that it's not all that way. I won't try to argue with you about the majority being one way or the other because we'll just go back and forth. I don't think you want that again. But unions do good things. Trashing them wholesale is not realistic.

 

[daveman]

LOL are you really that mentally challenged? I wasn"t making a direct comparison. I named the process and gave an example of the process used in the military. Gadawg was saying lockheed employees were compaining about it and at no time did I say or claim that he was talking about the military. However, thanks for distorting what I actually said.

Then I found an example that showed that I used the correct terminology proving my argument that it is referred to as "reclassification".

You know it amazes me that you can be proven wrong and still declare victory as you pretend facts that counter your spin don't exist. LOL

I the end you tried to call me out for an exaggeration and distortion when I did nothing of the sort and end up exposing yourself as exaggerating and distorting what I said.

You just keep on digging that hole you are in. LOL

P.S. claiming that i am "stomping my feet and pouting" as you try to demean me because you obviously have no valid arguments to offer is an exaggeration on your part.

*yawn* Yeah, yeah, you're the smartest guy in the room. We get it.

Everybody kiss Doc's butt. He's entitled to it. Just ask him.

LOL Look at how you are still trolling becuase you can't counter anything that I have said. How typical.

In the end I was correct and your trolling and personal attacks won't change that.

 

[madasheck]

Those that chose not to go for further education after HS should be automatically turned away for their work quality, knowledge, and work ethic lags far behind those that get more education.

Tell that to Harlan Sanders and Dave Thomas.

College is NOT an absolute gauge of drive or quality. It is very often a hinderence for many in becoming the successful people they can ultimately be. Of course that is not for all work and industry, but not all work and industry NEEDS that path in life.

A college degree is neither a guarantor or predictor of success, quality or drive.

Trying making decent money legally without one. There may be exceptions, but it's not the rule. Even kids still in school know that.

 

[daveman]

In my experience, that's an exception. All the union people I've known in multiple industries have worked their butts off. I've seen many hard working people who are union members. And to the extent that there still are union members, I think that pretty much holds true. Of course, in any example, there are exceptions. But I think the majority works hard, especially the way things are now.

My experience does not support that view.

That's fine, dave, but at least allow for the fact that it's not all that way. I won't try to argue with you about the majority being one way or the other because we'll just go back and forth. I don't think you want that again. But unions do good things. Trashing them wholesale is not realistic.

Unions used to do good things. Now they're exactly what they were formed to protect against: Organizations that exploit workers.

 

[madasheck]

My experience does not support that view.

That's fine, dave, but at least allow for the fact that it's not all that way. I won't try to argue with you about the majority being one way or the other because we'll just go back and forth. I don't think you want that again. But unions do good things. Trashing them wholesale is not realistic.

Unions used to do good things. Now they're exactly what they were formed to protect against: Organizations that exploit workers.

I guess it depends on the industry. In my experience, they still are, though times are different now and things are much tougher.

 

[drsmith1072]

Unions discourage working harder because pay is divorced from productivity. If you get paid just as much as everyone else no matter how hard you work, then why work harder than anyone else? It contradicts human nature to pretend or insist people will work even harder when there is no self interest in doing so. No matter how much liberals fantasize otherwise, it's just not true. People don't bust their asses when it won't provide them with greater benefit for having done so. Gee even the Soviets found out the hard way that their government owned slaves didn't give a shit about whether their farming resulted in a harvestable crop for the government until they were told they would be given small plots of their own, allowed to grow their own crops and keep the money. But only if the crops they grew for government succeeded. Even then the privately grown did better than those grown for government.

BS. Both of my parents were postal workers, both were union members and both worked hard their entire careers. Despite the fact that they were unionized they could still easily lose their jobs. If you are carrier, which my father was, and you slack off and finish your route late you get written up and if it happenes too many times you are gone. Then if you finish your route too early they add to it and make you work harder.

My mother, in the last few years before she was due to retire got injured on the job. she is legally disabled now because of it. At the time management tried to "give" her a job that they had created which she wasn't capable of doing in accordance with what her doctor said and they tried to fire her for not taking it. This would have cost her her benefits. She had to sue to get it corrected and with the unions help she got her workmans comp pay and in the end she got to retire early.

BTW-after all this talk about how wonderful and deserving government employees are and how they are really no different from private sector workers, it turns out hundred of thousands of government workers are delinquent in their income taxes and collectively owe more than $3.3 BILLION and no one doing a fucking thing about it. And did you know the double fuck for private sector workers who have to bust their asses to pay for these parasites-they can't be fired for refusing to pay their taxes. While you and I would be arrested, our property confiscated, our bank accounts frozen and then confiscated -and finally thrown in federal prison for 7-8years, NOTHING happens if it is a government worker who refuses to pay.

Nice that you choose to differentiate between public and private sector workers for your delinquent tax argument but how many non government workers are delinquent on their taxes?? Got a link to the penalties for delinquent taxes? Did they file their taxeas and just not pay? I know this has been one of the top stories on foxnews over the last few days but do you have any more details or are you just running with the headline?

I wrote on an earlier post why I refer to government workers as parasites. Not as an insult, but because of the fact a government employee drains government revenue and only private sector workers increase it. But since hundreds of thousands of them aren't even paying taxes on that income, now I definitely mean it as an insult. Government is corrupt, it is the nature of the beast to become corrupt. And it attracts the corrupt to populate it. The founders knew this and warned future generations they feared would allow it to happen. They had good reason to be concerned. We have a lot of people who have no problem with a far more massive, powerful government and many more productive citizens corrupted o be parasites on the system. WE bust our asses. They laugh all the way to the bank. Any wonder NOW why it turned out so many of Obama's political appointees didn't bother to pay their income taxes? NO PENALTY if the ruling elite does it. Only if a private sector worker does it.

Only private sector workers increase it?? You do know that public sector workers pay taxes too don't you? BTW how many non government workers are delinquent on their taxes and does that make them less than other citizens as you seem to be implying by calling government workers parasites?? If you were as upset about private workers who are delinquent on their taxes then your argument might have some validity.

Oh and I found a link to the story you are referencing. Does it bother you to know that the largest individual amount belongs to delinquent retired military personnel and not the "government workers" that you are demeaning?

The biggest group, though, is retired military personnel. That group owed more than $1.5 billion dollars.

So it's not just government workers per se it's RETIREES and military retirees for that matter. So tell us again how those retired military personnel are such parasites.

oh and this

But collecting on all that money isn't easy—federal employees are entitled to the same rights as everybody else. The federal government can't simply dock their paychecks for the delinquent money.

Federal employees “are entitled to the same process under the tax law as you are,” said IRS spokesman Anthony Burke. “They don’t have different rights than everyone else.” Burke said that each taxpayer likely will receive three or four notices about the back taxes before the IRS can take more serious action.


News Headlines

So where is that special treatment you were referring to?

 

[drsmith1072]

Those that chose not to go for further education after HS should be automatically turned away for their work quality, knowledge, and work ethic lags far behind those that get more education.

Horseshit. Elitist horseshit.

There are some profoundly stupid educated people on this board.

post #407 shot his comment all to Hell.

Actaully no it didn't.

you provided a list of those who succeded even after dropping out of college and a few who never attended but that in no way shape or form counters or even responds to his claim that

Those that chose not to go for further education after HS should be automatically turned away for their work quality, knowledge, and work ethic lags far behind those that get more education.

How does your post 407 show that lack of further education after HS shows increased work quality, knowledge and work ethic over those who got more education after HS? Your list is not proof that having only a high school diploma is the norm for multimillionaire success.

BTW if they went to a trade school, a technical college, attended college or even joined the army for that matter then they got "further education after HS" so how does providing a list of people who for the most part got "further education after HS" counter his claim??

It substantiates his argument more than it counters it.

 

[drsmith1072]

Indeed. But he will not acknowledge that reality.

When someone who cannot grasp the concept of defeat even in the face of overwhelming odds, it is time to marginalize them.

I find ridiculing them is always fun, because they're so convinced of their own superiority.

And that self-inflated and superior attitude when you have done nothing to have such an attitude in concert wiht your above post says everything that needs to be said about you. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

Wow the fact that you have to reply with a cut and paste personal attack says everything that needs to be know about a waste of space like you.

What next finger paints? Or are you going to glue macaroni to a paper plate? LOL

Thanks again for nothing. LOL

Speaking of self-important stuffed shirts...

Thanks for announcing your arrival. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

I'm sure it comforts your fragile ego to feel that way, Snowflake, but you do nothing but prove I'm right.

Maybe you should threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue...

LOL so no proof. Got it. Why do you even bother wasting time with responses like that when all it proves is that you have nothing real to offer and can only attack me personally as you run away from a debate you know you lost. LOL

I just think it's hilarious that all of you trolls have to gang up on me and troll in one right aftter anohter while NONE of you offeres anything to the substance of the debate. LOL

I have made all my points and substantiated them and for that this is the kind of attention I get from these right wing cowardly trolls. LOL

What the hell gave you the stupid idea you deserve anything else?

I expect childish retorts from children who don't get their way and throw tantrums. So I expect nothing more from a child like you. Your trolling has validated that belief.

 

[Big Fitz]

Those that chose not to go for further education after HS should be automatically turned away for their work quality, knowledge, and work ethic lags far behind those that get more education.

Tell that to Harlan Sanders and Dave Thomas.

College is NOT an absolute gauge of drive or quality. It is very often a hinderence for many in becoming the successful people they can ultimately be. Of course that is not for all work and industry, but not all work and industry NEEDS that path in life.

A college degree is neither a guarantor or predictor of success, quality or drive.

Trying making decent money legally without one. There may be exceptions, but it's not the rule. Even kids still in school know that.

College degrees equal prosperity while all others don't is less a rule than you think.

 

[madasheck]

Tell that to Harlan Sanders and Dave Thomas.

College is NOT an absolute gauge of drive or quality. It is very often a hinderence for many in becoming the successful people they can ultimately be. Of course that is not for all work and industry, but not all work and industry NEEDS that path in life.

A college degree is neither a guarantor or predictor of success, quality or drive.

Trying making decent money legally without one. There may be exceptions, but it's not the rule. Even kids still in school know that.

College degrees equal prosperity while all others don't is less a rule than you think.

I have a bridge to sell. You interested? And do you seriously believe that kids without college degrees have a better chance of a well-paying job than ones who don't?

 

[daveman]

When someone who cannot grasp the concept of defeat even in the face of overwhelming odds, it is time to marginalize them.

I find ridiculing them is always fun, because they're so convinced of their own superiority.

And that self-inflated and superior attitude when you have done nothing to have such an attitude in concert wiht your above post says everything that needs to be said about you. LOL

Shall we compare resumes?

 

[daveman]

Wow the fact that you have to reply with a cut and paste personal attack says everything that needs to be know about a waste of space like you.

What next finger paints? Or are you going to glue macaroni to a paper plate? LOL

Thanks again for nothing. LOL

Speaking of self-important stuffed shirts...

Thanks for announcing your arrival. LOL

What announced my arrival was laughter. At YOU.

You stuffed shirts absolutely HATE that not everyone takes you as seriously as you demand.

Tough shit.

 

[daveman]

LOL so no proof. Got it. Why do you even bother wasting time with responses like that when all it proves is that you have nothing real to offer and can only attack me personally as you run away from a debate you know you lost. LOL

I just think it's hilarious that all of you trolls have to gang up on me and troll in one right aftter anohter while NONE of you offeres anything to the substance of the debate. LOL

I have made all my points and substantiated them and for that this is the kind of attention I get from these right wing cowardly trolls. LOL

What the hell gave you the stupid idea you deserve anything else?

I expect childish retorts from children who don't get their way and throw tantrums. So I expect nothing more from a child like you. Your trolling has validated that belief.

Yes, we've seen that from you a great deal.

 

[daveman]

Trying making decent money legally without one. There may be exceptions, but it's not the rule. Even kids still in school know that.

College degrees equal prosperity while all others don't is less a rule than you think.

I have a bridge to sell. You interested? And do you seriously believe that kids without college degrees have a better chance of a well-paying job than ones who don't?

That wasn't the claim, was it?

 

[madasheck]

College degrees equal prosperity while all others don't is less a rule than you think.

I have a bridge to sell. You interested? And do you seriously believe that kids without college degrees have a better chance of a well-paying job than ones who don't?

That wasn't the claim, was it?

Well, consider what he said in this post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/204003-1-meellion-signatures-27.html#post4708694

[quote="Big Fitz]College is NOT an absolute gauge of drive or quality. It is very often a hinderence for many in becoming the successful people they can ultimately be. Of course that is not for all work and industry, but not all work and industry NEEDS that path in life.

A college degree is neither a guarantor or predictor of success, quality or drive.[/quote]

He's pushing the idea that college doesn't achieve success with the qualifier that it's not true in all cases. While there are some occupations where college wouldn't make a lot of difference, do you generally talk down college to a high school kid looking for career advice? God, no. To suggest it's a hindrance, as he did, is crazy.

 

[daveman]

I have a bridge to sell. You interested? And do you seriously believe that kids without college degrees have a better chance of a well-paying job than ones who don't?

That wasn't the claim, was it?

Well, consider what he said in this post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/204003-1-meellion-signatures-27.html#post4708694

Trying making decent money legally without one. There may be exceptions, but it's not the rule. Even kids still in school know that.

[/INDENT]
Skilled trades make very good money. No degree required.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Higher education when used to achieve knowledge in a marketable skill is a good thing.
Those who go to college and earn "any" degree are setting themselves up for struggle and disappointment.
The problem I see is that of entitlement. Those who come out of school with a BA in whatever believe they are owed something. That something is a white collar job right out the gate that will allow them to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. After all that is what these kids have been told would happen. How anyone could think this is possible with well over 1.5 million people earning college degrees each year is a mystery.
"Work hard ,go to school and the rest will take care of itself". The problem is those delivering the message neglect to tell these deserving skulls full of creamed farina that once they get their degree, the work has JUST BEGUN.

 

[Big Fitz]

I have a bridge to sell. You interested? And do you seriously believe that kids without college degrees have a better chance of a well-paying job than ones who don't?

That wasn't the claim, was it?

Well, consider what he said in this post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/204003-1-meellion-signatures-27.html#post4708694

[quote="Big Fitz]College is NOT an absolute gauge of drive or quality. It is very often a hinderence for many in becoming the successful people they can ultimately be. Of course that is not for all work and industry, but not all work and industry NEEDS that path in life.

A college degree is neither a guarantor or predictor of success, quality or drive.

He's pushing the idea that college doesn't achieve success with the qualifier that it's not true in all cases. While there are some occupations where college wouldn't make a lot of difference, do you generally talk down college to a high school kid looking for career advice? God, no. To suggest it's a hindrance, as he did, is crazy.[/QUOTE]
The 'claim' as you decide to misframe it, is that a college degree is NOT causation for success. Nor is a LACK of a degree a prevention for success. I'm sure there are many BAs out there in Philosophy, Psychology, History and English who are having no luck whatsoever.

It's about your skill set, drive and networking that determine more what you can achieve than a piece of 'hazing paper' that says you put up with jumping through a university's hoops for years.

It's corollary, not causation, and neither the possession or lack thereof of a college degree will change that too much in the percentages. Never forget:

No matter how good the last four years had been or were spent.