12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[pismoe]

aw feck YOU Daryl Hunt , you unamerican 'veteran' on this 'veterans day' . Are you a member of 'gabby gifford' veteran approved gun control group Daryl Hunt ?? You could mingle with some unamerican generals and big shot retired government people or 'kings men' if you join up Daryl Hunt . [chuckle]

 

[pismoe]

AR15 is fine for Americans , it is known as Americas 'modern musket' Daryl Hunt .

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Seems the NRA can be blamed for these deaths as well.
The Gun Nutter NRA Killer crew blocked what CA. voted to remove.
Like really 98% of people dying by guns really in what the NRA sponsors.

View attachment 228112

What you fail to understand is that the magazine had nothing to do with how many people he killed...... the fact is that shooting unarmed people is what allowed him to kill so many people..... had there been armed civilians in that bar, they would have stopped him from killing.....but they were unarmed thanks to you...

The magazine in a gun is easily and quickly changed out, so the number of bullets in the magazine have no bearing on the killer who is shooting people who can't shoot back....there is an actual study on this.....

And did you read the Judges opinion on the Temporary injunction against the magazine ban in California...he understands what you don't understand... you should read it...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

Crazy BS Gun Nutter spews mostly above. 2nd Anal RE-spews of NRA BS from the
weakminded fools Gun Nutters BE!
DOPers want everyone to be armed in America for safety. Haha. Crazy, not needed.
Gun Nutters want to bring the lawless Afgan style of living in America.
Where AK's are 5 bucks, and most everyone can get one in mins. No Checks.

Back in the 1800's. Most families had only one musket. If that.
Seems there were really no single Whitey Guy's doing mass shoots, then.
The Musket did not shoot fast. As they were our armed militia weapons
They were good then, that's all Gun Nutters should have, today. Slow firing stuff.

Back in the early 1900's. Most families had only one gun.
Seems there were really no single Whitey Guy's doing mass shoots, then.
You see the pattern here DOPer Gun Nutters?

Now in the 2000's we started to have mass shootings by mostly Whitey Guys.
With what are all fully autoloading guns shooting clips out in seconds.
There is semi fire, but all modern guns gas loading are fully automatic weapons.
It's just that simple. Back in the 1800's getting off 3 shots in a minute was good.
Now, you can get off 3, 15 plus round clips in a min., and if really good, 4 clips in under a min.
To do your Whitey mostly Mass shootings today. Fully sponsored by the NRA.

It's just weird, we don't let the Gun Nutter 2nd Anal loving Crazies have bigger military guns on the streets for protection.
Seems the Gun Nutter Morons want to defend America with what they have, as the fools they be.
Your AR-XXX POS won't stop drone bombs you BOZO Freedom Fighters. HAHAHAHA! Losers. Good Luck in your freedom fighting.

You mean 5 reasons for you to buy something from us, don't you. It's a friggin sales procure trying to sell you something. I look in the gun shops around here and the ARs have steadily been dropping in price. Your buddy claims he sells the MP-15 for 499 yet I can buy them around here all day long for 399 because they are cluttering up the gun racks in the guns stores since the gun scare was shown it was a farce.

Your brochure claims familiarity. Yes, almost any Veteran will feel right at home with an AR. Why? He or She probably spent time training at least on a M-16 and there is no difference except for, most of the time, the selector settings. All other things will be exactly the same.

Your brochure goes on to say it's used for big game. You get caught using ANY 223 hunting big game around here and two things will happen. You will get a really hefty fine and then some serious jail time. About the smallest I would consider would be a 270. If you can't reach out and have a killing shot at 400 yds then your round is worthless. And I have made many killing shots at 400 yds with both a 303 british and a 308 Model 700. At 400 yds, with an AR-15, you just as well be throwing rocks.

Your Brochure is just trying to sell shit.

------------------------------------------------- well as i noted earlier , AR and .223 are legal to hunt all sorts of varmints including the larger Deer depending on the State that hunters hunt in . And the AR's i featured are available for serious hunters to buy if they want to buy . Your OPINION means 'Nothing' except that its your OPINION . Americans are Free to BUY what they like and then to determine whats legal or illegal and you lefties want to change that so that you can DICTATE your OPINIONS on what Americans can do Daryl Hunt .

I'm a Lefty? Maybe so but I am probably one of the best armed lefty you have ever met. You just can't stand that the Constitution doesn't agree with your warped ideas. So be it.

You mean 5 reasons for you to buy something from us, don't you. It's a friggin sales procure trying to sell you something. I look in the gun shops around here and the ARs have steadily been dropping in price. Your buddy claims he sells the MP-15 for 499 yet I can buy them around here all day long for 399 because they are cluttering up the gun racks in the guns stores since the gun scare was shown it was a farce.

Your brochure claims familiarity. Yes, almost any Veteran will feel right at home with an AR. Why? He or She probably spent time training at least on a M-16 and there is no difference except for, most of the time, the selector settings. All other things will be exactly the same.

Your brochure goes on to say it's used for big game. You get caught using ANY 223 hunting big game around here and two things will happen. You will get a really hefty fine and then some serious jail time. About the smallest I would consider would be a 270. If you can't reach out and have a killing shot at 400 yds then your round is worthless. And I have made many killing shots at 400 yds with both a 303 british and a 308 Model 700. At 400 yds, with an AR-15, you just as well be throwing rocks.

Your Brochure is just trying to sell shit.

------------------------------------------------- well as i noted earlier , AR and .223 are legal to hunt all sorts of varmints including the larger Deer depending on the State that hunters hunt in . And the AR's i featured are available for serious hunters to buy if they want to buy . Your OPINION means 'Nothing' except that its your OPINION . Americans are Free to BUY what they like and then to determine whats legal or illegal and you lefties want to change that so that you can DICTATE your OPINIONS on what Americans can do Daryl Hunt .

I'm a Lefty? Maybe so but I am probably one of the best armed lefty you have ever met. You just can't stand that the Constitution doesn't agree with your warped ideas. So be it.

-------------------------------------------- 'feinstein' was also a well armed lefty as she carried a concealed Snubby while other 'kalifornian' could not . Its what you lefty dictator types are known for Daryl Hunt .

Now I am a dictator. If you can't debate with facts and truths, try and discredit your opponent. How Trumpesk of you.

----------------------------------------- DEBATE , WHAT FACTS , what Truths ?? I just give my OPINION that YOU and your retired gun grabbing 'generals' , government employees and anti gun 'veterans' are gun controllers and prohibitionists of effective and efficient guns and i prove that OPINION with links Daryl Hunt .

Did I once suggest in any way that we should confiscate your arms as long as you are a responsible citizen? If they took the guns from responsible citizens they would also take mine and I don't think I would be too happy with that. But I support the State Laws (and they have been upheld in Federal Courts) for gun regulation. I deem them as Common Sense Gun Regulations. After 3 mass shootings, we adopted those laws state wide and started to work with communities and schools (preventing school shootings is more than just "More Guns"). The community involvement here locally has had three alerts. Two were acted on just like they were real were found to be unfounded. But one was real. A 17 year old was wearing a rain coat on a sunny hot day walking towards a school gate. The community called the authorities and they responded BEFORE he got to the entrance. They found he had his daddy's AR-15, his daddy's 3 extra 30 round mags that were grandfathered under that coat. The kid was 17. No, they didn't try him as an adult. They did put him in a Mental Health Facility without releasing his name. No national coverage because that was just plain boring. The system works. And we owe none of it to you. But we do owe the fact that these kids and others keep trying and some succeeding in mass shootings. Hope you are proud of yourself.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

and some nice AR based serious hunting rifles Daryl Hunt . --- AR Hunting Rifles - Brenton USA ---

If the State Bag limits are four deer a year. Or 2 deer per day.
How many bullets shooting fast from an AR-XXX POS does it take
for a poorly skilled hunter to bag its limits? 2, 3 or 4 ....15 rounds clips?

But you may corner a deer in a warehouse armed with a Bazooka and need all 5 30 round mags to bring home the small piece of meat that will be left after you riddle it with your bullets. Safety First.

--------------------------------- thats up to the Deer Hunter that got the Deer though normally a guy hunting with an AR will have a 3 or 5 round hunting magaine in his AR Daryl Hunt .

I have NEVER needed more than 2 rounds for any kill. If you are carrying all that extra ammo you really can't be having fun. I would rather carry a 10 or a 15 round mag and make up the difference in Water and Munchy Bars. Carrying 4 mags is rediculous. That is, unless you have a Deer cornered in a Warehouse armed with a Bazooka. And then you might need those extra mags. I guess you are just trying to be prepared for the worst. Who know, maybe the Martians will attack right then as well. If you carrying more than on mag in the gun and one in case of problems with the on in the gun then you are just carrying extra weight. And seriously are trying to make up for a short Johnson. My Johnson is just right.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

AR15 is fine for Americans , it is known as Americas 'modern musket' Daryl Hunt .

You can stop making shit up again. I don't know of anyone around here that EVER called it that. And it wasn't the Musket that made the big difference. It was the Kentucky Rifle that did. Some of the Volunteers were better armed than the British Regulars who used Muskets. You really need to learn about your own history instead of just making shit up or parroting what your handlers tell you to repeat.

 

[pismoe]

you are a gun controller , you and i don't believe the same things and i don't Trust you as i've seen your postings for a couple of years Daryl Hunt . As i have said over and over again . A --- 'marine veteran' --- murdered 12 or 13 people the other day [RiP] . Course the vast majority of 320 million Americans and residents of the USA simply ate supper , went to bed , woke up the next morning and went to work or school the next day Daryl Hunt .

 

[pismoe]

AR15 is fine for Americans , it is known as Americas 'modern musket' Daryl Hunt .

You can stop making shit up again. I don't know of anyone around here that EVER called it that. And it wasn't the Musket that made the big difference. It was the Kentucky Rifle that did. Some of the Volunteers were better armed than the British Regulars who used Muskets. You really need to learn about your own history instead of just making shit up or parroting what your handlers tell you to repeat.

----------------------------- you trying to change subjects eh . And the fact that your people like 'gabby giffords' doesn't refer to the AR as the 'modern musket' means nothing Daryl Hunt.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

AR15 is fine for Americans , it is known as Americas 'modern musket' Daryl Hunt .

You can stop making shit up again. I don't know of anyone around here that EVER called it that. And it wasn't the Musket that made the big difference. It was the Kentucky Rifle that did. Some of the Volunteers were better armed than the British Regulars who used Muskets. You really need to learn about your own history instead of just making shit up or parroting what your handlers tell you to repeat.

----------------------------- you trying to change subjects eh . And the fact that your people like 'gabby giffords' doesn't refer to the AR as the 'modern musket' means nothing Daryl Hunt.

You are the one that made the claim. And I just called you on your BS.

 

[pismoe]

well it is referred to as Americas Modern Musket , its not a big deal but some do like the comparison for its Symbolism call it that . YOU PEOPLE probably don't like the Symbolism is what it is Daryl Hunt .

 

[Daryl Hunt]

you are a gun controller , you and i don't believe the same things and i don't Trust you as i've seen your postings for a couple of years Daryl Hunt . As i have said over and over again . A --- 'marine veteran' --- murdered 12 or 13 people the other day [RiP] . Course the vast majority of 320 million Americans and residents of the USA simply ate supper , went to bed , woke up the next morning and went to work or school the next day Daryl Hunt .

Not all did. Some worked with others to try and make sure that it couldn't be any worse than it already was. And since he didn't use the Weapon of Choice for Mass Shootings, the body count was low. With his skill set, had he had easy access to an AR with multiple 30 round mags he could have easily have take the record of 57. While no amount of gun regs and laws could have prevented it, the ones in place helped to keep the body count low. Yes, 12 is a high number for someone like you but for someone with his skill sets that number was actually low.

His skill set far exceeds mine far exceed even the two armed cops that entered with guns drawn. But I imagine we at least one two posting in here that has those skilll sets. And YOU ain''t one of them.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

well it is referred to as Americas Modern Musket , its not a big deal but some do like the comparison for its Symbolism call it that . YOU PEOPLE probably don't like the Symbolism is what it is Daryl Hunt .

Wow, You People. How Nationalistic of you. You can't be a Patriot and be a Nationalist at the same time.

 

[pismoe]

and the AR15 as the MODERN MUSKET --- http://www.modernmusket.com/ --- check it out Daryl Hunt plus nice to take your silly victory away . I like doing that , it makes me smile Daryl Hunt .

 

[Marion Morrison]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

Reopen State Mental hospitals? Bring God back into schools?

^Real solutions.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

and the AR15 as the MODERN MUSKET --- http://www.modernmusket.com/ --- check it out Daryl Hunt plus nice to take your silly victory away . I like doing that , it makes me smile Daryl Hunt .

And they make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, don't they. Make sure you buy something before you leave their site. I did a quick search. Every site that calls it that is a commercial site that wants to sell you something. Funny, I didn't get that warm and fuzzy feeling and didn't find the need to take long hot showers with them when I visited them. Maybe you do but, hey, whatever trips yer trigger.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

Reopen State Mental hospitals? Bring God back into schools?

^Real solutions.

Neither of those would have prevented this shooting. In fact, there was nothing that would have. All we can do is try and keep the body count down.

 

[caddo kid]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

Reopen State Mental hospitals? Bring God back into schools?

^Real solutions.

What grade was god in when they took god out of school?

 

[Marion Morrison]

11:15 p.m. last night. Twelve dead, and they are still counting. Dead include the gunman, who went into a local Country-Western bar & grill having it's weekly College Night and began by shooting the security guard and cashier, then entered and began spraying bullets at college students with his rapid fire gun. Twelve dead include one of the first deputies on the scene.

Thousand Oaks is considered one of the safest communities in the country. Just like Parkland was.

People, it is time we stopped talking and started doing something about this. It is beyond ridiculous that we are no longer safe to go grocery shopping, pray in our church, go to yoga class, or to a bar to dance. Or to work. Or to school.

Something has to be done to stop this. Not just talk this time. It is time to actually do something. January approaches. Make sure your legislators know what you think will help make this country SAFE AGAIN.

Reopen State Mental hospitals? Bring God back into schools?

^Real solutions.

Neither of those would have prevented this shooting. In fact, there was nothing that would have. All we can do is try and keep the body count down.

In this instance, I have to agree.

In several other instances, these people should have been institutionalized.

The Broward County kid..Sandy Hook.

They should have been in the day room of an institution, mellowed by Thorazine.

I can't understand killing innocent people because you're mad at your bitch, though.

Believe me, I've been mad at mine b4. I didn't want to take it out on anyone else.

 

[pismoe]

and the AR15 as the MODERN MUSKET --- http://www.modernmusket.com/ --- check it out Daryl Hunt plus nice to take your silly victory away . I like doing that , it makes me smile Daryl Hunt .

And they make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, don't they. Make sure you buy something before you leave their site. I did a quick search. Every site that calls it that is a commercial site that wants to sell you something. Funny, I didn't get that warm and fuzzy feeling and didn't find the need to take long hot showers with them when I visited them. Maybe you do but, hey, whatever trips yer trigger.

----------------------------------------- so what , sounds like American Capitalism to me and what , now you are a gun controller and socialist or what Daryl Hunt .

 

[Manonthestreet]

She Was One of the Youngest Calif. Shooting Victims: 'She Didn't Look for the Negative. Carry That in Your Heart.'

 

[Natural Citizen]

Did you finally bail on the thread, OL?