14 year old kills his bully

[koshergrl]

I'm not surprised the kid killed him. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more to bullies in school and domestic abusers.

We have made it so that violence when used in defense is treated as just as bad as violence when used to intimidate and harass. It allows this tension to fester and boil, because anyone defending knows they will get in just as much trouble as the instigator, and the instigator often cares less about the consequences.

So basically the bullied kid takes it, ferments, and as in this case, occasionally lashes fatally out, when a simple fight months ago may have solved this all.

On the other hand, you apply the term "bully" to someone, and automatically, any action taken against them is justified.

It's just another form of bullying.

I dealt with a couple of instances over the last school year where teachers/leaders were hyper-vigilant about what they perceived as "bullying" and the result was they actually targeted a child THEMSELVES and put the kid in a position where she couldn't say anything or do anything in her defense..because she'd been labeled as a *bully*.

Never mind what led up to the alleged "bullying".

In one instance, a girl kept reaching across her desk to grab her origami figure...after repeatedly telling the girl to stop, the *bully* grabbed the other girl's arm as it reached in front of her, across her desk, and bit her. In play, sort of, but hard enough to leave a mark for a few minutes.

Guess who's the bully?

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ If taking someone out is the only way to bring their bad choice of action to a stop, then to me, there shouldn't be any court, juvenile or any other form. What had to be done was done and that is all that there is to it.

Oh, gosh. Jesus would just be loving you right now.

I believe that the Lord died to save us from a living nightmare, so when someone has the intention of putting another person through one anyways, what do you think should be done to that someone? To me, they shouldn't get away with trying to make what the Lord did for us go to waste.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Esmeralda]

I'm not surprised the kid killed him. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more to bullies in school and domestic abusers.

We have made it so that violence when used in defense is treated as just as bad as violence when used to intimidate and harass. It allows this tension to fester and boil, because anyone defending knows they will get in just as much trouble as the instigator, and the instigator often cares less about the consequences.

So basically the bullied kid takes it, ferments, and as in this case, occasionally lashes fatally out, when a simple fight months ago may have solved this all.

On the other hand, you apply the term "bully" to someone, and automatically, any action taken against them is justified.

It's just another form of bullying.

I dealt with a couple of instances over the last school year where teachers/leaders were hyper-vigilant about what they perceived as "bullying" and the result was they actually targeted a child THEMSELVES and put the kid in a position where she couldn't say anything or do anything in her defense..because she'd been labeled as a *bully*.

Never mind what led up to the alleged "bullying".

In one instance, a girl kept reaching across her desk to grab her origami figure...after repeatedly telling the girl to stop, the *bully* grabbed the other girl's arm as it reached in front of her, across her desk, and bit her. In play, sort of, but hard enough to leave a mark for a few minutes.

Guess who's the bully?

Hmmm....biting is not a good response to someone grabbing something off your desk. Biting, hitting, etc., that's violence. Schools won't tolerate physical violence. Better teach your kid not to bite.

 

[Fang]

I remember being ganged up on by 3 classmates when I was about 14. They pinned me down and told me they were going to cut me and let me bleed to death. Of course they weren't serious, but at the time being 14 and laying there scared and unable to move I totally believed them. If this kid was being bullied relentlessly like witnesses say he may have honestly thought this was his only option to survive.

I can understand that. It may well be that was what was in his head. And I understand kids don't always go to adults to get help when they are bullied. Still, that doesn't make killing the other boy a good alternative. This is a terrible situation on all sides. Just terrible. It's too bad someone wasn't able to help these children before it came to this.

Agreed. Killing him was not a good alternative.

It sounds like a tough case. I'm sure among many questions, police will ask if the boy told parents or teachers he was being bullied. They need to figure out the best they can the boy's state of mind. Did he honestly believe this was his only option to survive? Or is he the kind of person that will kill anyone that pisses him off?

I'd like to know if he told teachers and nothing was done to help. Lots of questions.

 

[longly]

Looks like self defense and temporary insanity to me.

 

[bodecea]

Liberals want the nation flooded with latinos. This is what you get. It's a war and children are fighting it.

What the heck does this have to do with latinos?

 

[KissMy]

Agreed. Killing him was not a good alternative.

It sounds like a tough case. I'm sure among many questions, police will ask if the boy told parents or teachers he was being bullied. They need to figure out the best they can the boy's state of mind. Did he honestly believe this was his only option to survive? Or is he the kind of person that will kill anyone that pisses him off?

I'd like to know if he told teachers and nothing was done to help. Lots of questions.

WTF? - Teachers & parents knew Noel was being bullied. He quit school for a while because of it. Witness's say the thug lay in wait & attacked him his first day back & this was self defense all the way. Noel should be set free ASAP.

 

[Fang]

Agreed. Killing him was not a good alternative.

It sounds like a tough case. I'm sure among many questions, police will ask if the boy told parents or teachers he was being bullied. They need to figure out the best they can the boy's state of mind. Did he honestly believe this was his only option to survive? Or is he the kind of person that will kill anyone that pisses him off?

I'd like to know if he told teachers and nothing was done to help. Lots of questions.

WTF? - Teachers & parents knew Noel was being bullied. He quit school for a while because of it. Witness's say the thug lay in wait & attacked him his first day back & this was self defense all the way. Noel should be set free ASAP.

OK. Good to know more of the facts. I only had a chance to skim over the article. Unlike most internet users I don't hang someone based off a thread title.

 

[Esmeralda]

There are a lot of blood thirsty people on this board.

 

[Esmeralda]

Agreed. Killing him was not a good alternative.

It sounds like a tough case. I'm sure among many questions, police will ask if the boy told parents or teachers he was being bullied. They need to figure out the best they can the boy's state of mind. Did he honestly believe this was his only option to survive? Or is he the kind of person that will kill anyone that pisses him off?

I'd like to know if he told teachers and nothing was done to help. Lots of questions.

WTF? - Teachers & parents knew Noel was being bullied. He quit school for a while because of it. Witness's say the thug lay in wait & attacked him his first day back & this was self defense all the way. Noel should be set free ASAP.

OK. Good to know more of the facts. I only had a chance to skim over the article. Unlike most internet users I don't hang someone based off a thread title.

People did know about it. To what extent they understood what was happening isn't clear. I imagine that will come out when the incident is investigated thoroughly. Often teachers, friends, relatives, parents, etc., do not understand the extent of bullying or the intensity of depression. That is why suicides often come as a surprise. People don't know what is going on in someone's mind.

 

[KissMy]

There are a lot of blood thirsty people on this board.

Everyone has a right to self defense for the sake of defending one's own life or the lives of others, including the use of deadly force. The courts & SCOTUS have consistently ruled that police are under no legal duty to provide protection to citizens. You are your only defense against attack, murder, theft or destruction of property. Warren vs District of Columbia should scare the crap out of anyone who leaves self-defense up to police. Teachers, police & parents failed to protect Noel.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Teachers & parents knew Noel was being bullied. He quit school for a while because of it. Witness's say the thug lay in wait & attacked him his first day back & this was self defense all the way. Noel should be set free ASAP.

I agree and people who think that those who are pushed around are not worth the self defense, well them people know where it is that they can do their burning.

God bless you and Noel always!!!

Holly

 

[Esmeralda]

There are a lot of blood thirsty people on this board.

Everyone has a right to self defense for the sake of defending one's own life or the lives of others, including the use of deadly force. The courts & SCOTUS have consistently ruled that police are under no legal duty to provide protection to citizens. You are your only defense against attack, murder, theft or destruction of property.

You people don't grasp subtleties at all. I am not saying this kid shouldn’t have defended himself in a physical attack. What I am saying is that you are all so happy and pleased that he killed the other boy. Why don't any of you express regret that this had to happen? Why aren't your sorry for this situation? Why do you do a gleeful dance because one 14 year old kid is dead and another is charged with murder and may have a ruined life if not a ruined soul? What the hell is wrong with you? You all delight so much in death and in this tragedy.

 

[HenryBHough]

Given the photograph one might easily believe if the colours were reversed there would not have been a single press mention of the unpleasantness.

 

[Gracie]

Most of the school shootings that happen is due to kids being bullied, nothing is done about it, so they decide to take it out on the whole school.

 

[koshergrl]

We have made it so that violence when used in defense is treated as just as bad as violence when used to intimidate and harass. It allows this tension to fester and boil, because anyone defending knows they will get in just as much trouble as the instigator, and the instigator often cares less about the consequences.

So basically the bullied kid takes it, ferments, and as in this case, occasionally lashes fatally out, when a simple fight months ago may have solved this all.

On the other hand, you apply the term "bully" to someone, and automatically, any action taken against them is justified.

It's just another form of bullying.

I dealt with a couple of instances over the last school year where teachers/leaders were hyper-vigilant about what they perceived as "bullying" and the result was they actually targeted a child THEMSELVES and put the kid in a position where she couldn't say anything or do anything in her defense..because she'd been labeled as a *bully*.

Never mind what led up to the alleged "bullying".

In one instance, a girl kept reaching across her desk to grab her origami figure...after repeatedly telling the girl to stop, the *bully* grabbed the other girl's arm as it reached in front of her, across her desk, and bit her. In play, sort of, but hard enough to leave a mark for a few minutes.

Guess who's the bully?

Hmmm....biting is not a good response to someone grabbing something off your desk. Biting, hitting, etc., that's violence. Schools won't tolerate physical violence. Better teach your kid not to bite.

She didn't hurt her, it was in play, the other kid didn't care.

The principal told me it was a non-issue and he believed the teacher over-reacted.

So you think you have the right to repeatedly invade somebody's quite clearly marked personal space and take their things.

Of course you do, you're a criminal progressive. Any criminality is okay..but defending yourself is illegal.

PS..no family. Where did I reference my *kid*? Oh yeah, I didn't.

 

[Esmeralda]

Most of the school shootings that happen is due to kids being bullied, nothing is done about it, so they decide to take it out on the whole school.

I believe that throughout the history of civilization, there are those who have a much more difficult time than others learning and using effective socialization skills. Some kids who are bullied are deeply affected, so deeply their souls are crushed or warped. I don't know if there is anything that can ever be done to heal this problem in society. It isn't just kids who bully: adults do it too. People who have strong socialization skills deal with it, others don't. I'm NOT blaming the victim. I'm just saying, I think that is the way it is, and I don't know if it will every change. Some people are simply more sensitive, more vulnerable.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, and those people are called "survivors", lol.

 

[Gracie]

Most of the school shootings that happen is due to kids being bullied, nothing is done about it, so they decide to take it out on the whole school.

I believe that throughout the history of civilization, there are those who have a much more difficult time than others learning and using effective socialization skills. Some kids who are bullied are deeply affected, so deeply their souls are crushed or warped. I don't know if there is anything that can ever be done to heal this problem in society. It isn't just kids who bully: adults do it too. People who have strong socialization skills deal with it, others don't. I'm NOT blaming the victim. I'm just saying, I think that is the way it is, and I don't know if it will every change. Some people are simply more sensitive, more vulnerable.

And some finally reach the point where they see nothing is going to be done to protect THEM, so they take matters into their own hands.
The kid in this story had enough. He almost off'd himself because of it. He decided to take out the one causing his life to BECOME horrible. In short..he snapped. Can't say I blame him. Yeah, he is going to have to pay for snapping, which is pretty sad. Now he will be bullied in prison as well. This all should have been stopped before it got this far. From the neighbors to the parents of Timothy to school officials...the buck has to stop somewhere. And it did. With a knife.

 

[Jughead]

Timothy Crump, 14, sustained several stomach wounds in the attack by Noel Estevez, who was wielding a kitchen knife, police said.

Noel “came out of school and Timothy just cracked him in the head and then kneed his face,” said Saibo Sillah, who knew both boys. “Then Noel stabbed Timothy.’’

I realize that the boy acted in self defense, however what was a 14 year old doing with a kitchen knife at school? Why he didn't just fight back with his hands? He was dealing with another 14 year old boy here, not an armed gang. There was no need to bring a knife into the picture.