2008: Rick Santorum on "mainline Protestantism" in the U.S.

[Amelia]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Catholics had "some" influence? When it comes to education, except for the 1%, it was either government schools or Catholic schools.

Well, not when the country was founded .....

 

[konradv]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Catholics had "some" influence? When it comes to education, except for the 1%, it was either government schools or Catholic schools.

Well, not when the country was founded .....

Maryland wasn't the whole country?

 

[Amelia]

Well, frankly, I don't know how much of an influence Catholics had over schools in the 1700's. I guess I ought to do some reading first.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is Santorum engaging in a super-stealthy attack on Mormonism???

Hmmm.....????

 

[Amelia]

Is Santorum engaging in a super-stealthy attack on Mormonism???

Hmmm.....????

So far I haven't gotten a sense of any hidden anti-Mormon agenda.

His disdain for the "other" seems much broader than that - from Islam to mainstream Protestants now. Seems sincere and far-reaching. Mormons maybe be encompassed in it. But I haven't gotten an idea that they were a stealth target.

Have you seen anything in particular to give you that idea?

 

[Baron]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

I like Santorum!

 

[Amelia]

Good for you!

 

[edthecynic]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
- H L Mencken

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is Santorum engaging in a super-stealthy attack on Mormonism???

Hmmm.....????

So far I haven't gotten a sense of any hidden anti-Mormon agenda.

His disdain for the "other" seems much broader than that - from Islam to mainstream Protestants now. Seems sincere and far-reaching. Mormons maybe be encompassed in it. But I haven't gotten an idea that they were a stealth target.

Have you seen anything in particular to give you that idea?

The fact that he isn't saying it is what makes me think he's saying it.

btw, I haven't seen this religious attitude since I quit playing Medieval Total War.

 

[JoeB131]

As I've noted before, the LDS I'm aware of who don't live in Utah are very good at keeping their religion out of their politics. Why should he tell you about something which doesn't impact his governance?

The people who talk about their religion are telling you where their priorities are. Santorum is telling us that he will back the members of congress who care more about restricting a woman's access to abortion than they do about things like fixing roads and making sure that they keep the upper hand in the fight to make sure that we have the best military in the world. When they talk about religion and when they devote their time to social legislation, they pretty much hand over all the leverage they would have had for arguments in favor of more domestic oil production, etc.

But go ahead and hold it against Romney that he is NOT compromising the dialogue by saying judgmental, exclusionary stuff based on his religious beliefs.

Well, the Mormons I met FROM Utah were the most backstabbing, two-faced sockcuckers I've ever met in my life, and I'll never trust one, ever.

Priority one for me in this election is beating Romney, everything else to me is sort of secondary.

I don't care that much about a woman's access to an abortion. It isn't a big deal to me one way or the other. I personally think banning it would be foolish, but it's not an issue I care that much about. Sorry. Maybe if they were harder to get, women would think twice about who they had sex with. That's be a pity.

But he's being upfront about what he believes. That's important. Romney is saying whatever he has to do to get by, hoping he can fool the stupid people.

At the moment, it doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Mac1958]

Well, the Mormons I met FROM Utah were the most backstabbing, two-faced sockcuckers I've ever met in my life, and I'll never trust one, ever.

Can you imagine the shit storm of Mormon beliefs and practices the Dems are going to unleash the minute Romney gets the nod? Holy crap, we'll all know far more about that group than we ever wanted to...

.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, the Mormons I met FROM Utah were the most backstabbing, two-faced sockcuckers I've ever met in my life, and I'll never trust one, ever.

Can you imagine the shit storm of Mormon beliefs and practices the Dems are going to unleash the minute Romney gets the nod? Holy crap, we'll all know far more about that group than we ever wanted to...

.

I can. I have. I've warned people for months...

They don't listen.

But, yeah, we'll hear all about Magic Underwear, the Planet Kolob, Baptizing Dead People, and so on. Not to mention their hilarious history, such as the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Kirtland Bank Scandal.

 

[Amelia]

As I've noted before, the LDS I'm aware of who don't live in Utah are very good at keeping their religion out of their politics. Why should he tell you about something which doesn't impact his governance?

The people who talk about their religion are telling you where their priorities are. Santorum is telling us that he will back the members of congress who care more about restricting a woman's access to abortion than they do about things like fixing roads and making sure that they keep the upper hand in the fight to make sure that we have the best military in the world. When they talk about religion and when they devote their time to social legislation, they pretty much hand over all the leverage they would have had for arguments in favor of more domestic oil production, etc.

But go ahead and hold it against Romney that he is NOT compromising the dialogue by saying judgmental, exclusionary stuff based on his religious beliefs.

Well, the Mormons I met FROM Utah were the most backstabbing, two-faced sockcuckers I've ever met in my life, and I'll never trust one, ever.

Priority one for me in this election is beating Romney, everything else to me is sort of secondary.

I don't care that much about a woman's access to an abortion. It isn't a big deal to me one way or the other. I personally think banning it would be foolish, but it's not an issue I care that much about. Sorry. Maybe if they were harder to get, women would think twice about who they had sex with. That's be a pity.

But he's being upfront about what he believes. That's important. Romney is saying whatever he has to do to get by, hoping he can fool the stupid people.

At the moment, it doesn't seem to be working.

I've heard a lot of bad about Mormons who live in Utah. That's a different world from the Mormons who live in areas where they aren't in the majority.



Very interesting to hear what you'd be okay with just to stop a Mormon from being elected.



Not a surprise, but I don't think I've head you express it quite that way before.



"He may be willing to do horrible things in office and neglect vital govermental functions but at least he's honest about it". lol



Luckily for all of us, Santorum won't be elected.

Unluckily, Obama will.

It's really sad how hatred for Mormonism is standing in the way of the candidate who is least likely to try to rewrite the Constitution in his own image.

 

[JoeB131]

I've heard a lot of bad about Mormons who live in Utah. That's a different world from the Mormons who live in areas where they aren't in the majority.

No, Utah is just a place where there's enough of them to get away with their shit. They have the political power to bully everyone else.

Very interesting to hear what you'd be okay with just to stop a Mormon from being elected.

Not a surprise, but I don't think I've head you express it quite that way before.

Yup. really, really hate the LDS. A religion based on lies and stupidity. I can live with Santorum, and I can live with Obama.

I don't worry about Santorum banning abortion. Because it's a practical impossibility.

"He may be willing to do horrible things in office and neglect vital govermental functions but at least he's honest about it". lol

Santorum would be a fine president. I know you aren't handling rejection well, but the guy served two terms in Congress and two terms in the Senate and did a reasonably good job of it. Yes, he got wiped out in the 2006 wave, but so did Lincoln Chafee, who is the kind of lovable Moderate you go on and on about. Today Linc's a Governor.

Luckily for all of us, Santorum won't be elected.

Unluckily, Obama will.

It's really sad how hatred for Mormonism is standing in the way of the candidate who is least likely to try to rewrite the Constitution in his own image.

I don't think any of these guys is going to "rewrite" the constitution, but Romney is the only one who belongs to a religion dedicated to "establishing God's Kingdom on Earth". And again, he won't talk about what he believes.

I think Romney's less electable than Santorum is. Romney won't do well in the Midwestern States that the GOP needs to win this thing. He could even lose Missouri. Santorum could make a play for PA, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota maybe even Michigan.

 

[jgarden]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Who were the Founding Fathers? American historian Richard B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the "key" Founding Fathers:

John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington

Of these, only John Jay can be considered an orthodox Christian. As Congress's Secretary for Foreign Affairs, he argued (unsuccessfully) for a prohibition forbidding Catholics from holding office.

On October 12, 1816, Jay wrote, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest, of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

It is John Jay that the modern Christians have in mind when they talk about the Founding Fathers.

Luckily for the rest of us, and all freedom-loving Americans, he was not in the majority.

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

Santorum is wrong on at least 3 counts:

1. The idea that the nation was founded on "..... mainstream, mainline Protestantism" is largely a fabricated myth. Many of the key Founding Fathers were agnostics, atheists or deists.

2. If "mainstream, mainline Protestantism" had been given a free hand in creating the legal system, Protestant Christians, like John Jay, would have prevented Catholics from holding public office.

3. By dismissing Protestantism as in "a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity," Santorum sounds more and more like the flipside of John Jay and 18thC Protestants who considered Catholics to be "gone from the world of Christianity."

 

[Peach]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Wars and other conflicts amongst the various Christian sects/denominations were the primary inspiration for our separation of church and state.

I guess Santorum didn't get the memo.

So, Romney isn't a Christian (Perry's camp), Paul isn't a Christian, (Santorum).That leaves Newt & Rick; Obama may not need to spend a penny at this rate. The Republicans are ripping each other to shreds.

 

[Amelia]

I've heard a lot of bad about Mormons who live in Utah. That's a different world from the Mormons who live in areas where they aren't in the majority.

No, Utah is just a place where there's enough of them to get away with their shit. They have the political power to bully everyone else.

Where there are high enough concentrations of any religion abuses happen. Non-Utah Mormons have very different sensitivities.

I'd say "But whatever" ... except I can't resist adding that I still think it's funny that what you seem to fear about Romney, Santorum actually lives. He fearlessly talks about how as a president he would bring religion into the national discourse. He fearlessly talks about taking away people's rights. And you're okay with that.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

This guy is really nuts.

He's corrupt and lies and is SO dishonest. Just like Noot, we saw this when he was in office but rw's don't care now. They've been told to vote for ABO and that's what they'll do cuz they're just too damn dumb to do anything else.

What I want to know is - Has it always been like this? Has there always been a segment of our culture who can't think for themselves and need people like lushbo to tell them what to do?

I think it has. I think that its just more obvious now because of the internet.

Dont tell them but I'd love it if wacko Santorum was the candidate.

-- but, hell, I'll love it if Mittens or Noot is.

 

[Peach]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Wars and other conflicts amongst the various Christian sects/denominations were the primary inspiration for our separation of church and state.

I guess Santorum didn't get the memo.

So, Romney isn't a Christian (Perry's camp), Paul isn't a Christian, (Santorum).That leaves Newt & Rick; Obama may not need to spend a penny at this rate. The Republicans are ripping each other to shreds.

Amelia, though I differ from Romney in many respects, I appreciate the point well made. The religious hatred is now at a fever pitch with Santorum's remarks about Protestants. Sad, sad things to see in America. Not only is it "I'M FARTHER RIGHT THAN YOU", we have "I'M A CHRISTIAN & YOU ARE NOT!".

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've heard a lot of bad about Mormons who live in Utah. That's a different world from the Mormons who live in areas where they aren't in the majority.

No, Utah is just a place where there's enough of them to get away with their shit. They have the political power to bully everyone else.

Where there are high enough concentrations of any religion abuses happen. Non-Utah Mormons have very different sensitivities.

I'd say "But whatever" ... except I can't resist adding that I still think it's funny that what you seem to fear about Romney, Santorum actually lives. He fearlessly talks about how as a president he would bring religion into the national discourse. He fearlessly talks about taking away people's rights. And you're okay with that.

That's pretty much the definition of "right winger". They all yammer about the "nanny state" while giving their right away to Big Daddy.

Problem is, they're giving our rights away along with their own.

I think that if the rw's believe they should pay higher taxes, they should just send a check to the gub-ment and leave the rest out of their idiocy. But no - they want to take down the whole country.