2014 On Track To Be Hottest Year On Record

Now you claim there is no increase in ppm with density? WTF?

Molecules in the atmosphere are not a part of the density of the atmosphere? WTF do you think causes density? nothingness?

The two are unrelated. Density is a measure of - and is expressed in units of - mass per unit volume, such as kilograms per cubic meter. Parts per million is actually a "pseudo-unit" used to express dimensionless, fractional quantities. Here is Wikipedia's explanation. See if this helps.

In science and engineering, the parts-per notation is a set of pseudo units to describe small values of miscellaneous dimensionless quantities, e.g. mole fractionor mass fraction. Since these fractions are quantity-per-quantity measures, they are pure numbers with no associated units of measurement. Commonly used are ppm(parts-per-million, 10–6), ppb (parts-per-billion, 10–9), ppt (parts-per-trillion, 10–12) and ppq (parts-per-quadrillion, 10-15).

I could take a cubic meter of air with it's 400 ppm of CO2 and put it in a compressor and squeeze it down to a volume of one-tenth of a cubic meter. It's pressure would increase tenfold (to ten atmospheres or 101,325 hPA) and its density would increase tenfold (to 12.25 kg/m^3). But the fraction of that air that was made up of carbon dioxide would be unchanged: it would still be 400 ppm.

WRT "overwhelm" some dumb ass claimed that we've reached saturation for how much CO2 can be absorbed by plant life.

Well, I'm sure that may be the case for some species. I know it is not the case for all and that many species grow faster, taller, whatever, with more CO2. Unfortunately, changes in temperature and rainfall will dramatically overwhelm any such effects on a global scale. Increasing CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere has not increased agricultural productivity and will not do so going forward. Feel free to look that up.

ROFL omg... ROFL now the "expert" says molecules have no mass and are not present in the atmosphere and.... get this... because he can put air under pressure in a beaker he thinks air is not under pressure in our atmosphere. OMG you global warmers are soooo funny. Oh and in case you thought it wasn't gonna get any funnier he thinks he can put an "UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MOLECULES IN ONE BEAKER." Why does he think this? Simple cause if he can't then his dumb ass theory that molecules don't displace other molecules is... out the door.

Mr Brown (I assume that is your name), my name is Abraham. That used to be my nick here but I left and then tried to come back and management forced me to change it. If you go back through my posts in this latest discussion, I think you will find that I've been generally courteous; certainly more courteous than I have treated other people in this forum. I realize not everyone on my side of this argument has made the same effort (aside to RT: hint hint).

You know (as does everyone that has read my statement above) that I never said molecules have no mass and never said they weren't present in the atmosphere. I never said air wasn't under pressure in the atmosphere or that I could put an unlimited amount of air in a given volume.

What I said and what I explained by clear example is that changing the pressure and density of a gas does not affect the ppm ratios of it's constituent gases. As you saw in the Wikipedia text, the actual meaning of ppm in this usage is, effectively "molecules per million molecules" or "moles per million moles" (if you happen to know what moles are). Because you have the same entity in the numerator and denominator, the two cancel and you are left, as Wikipedia notes, with a massless quantity. Massless quantities are common in science and engineering. For example, if I wanted to speak of the error in a car's speedometer that was dependent on the actual velocity, I could end up with the units "mph error per actual mph", thus "mph per mph". Algebraically, the two cancel and you are left with a massless quantity. This is handy because the value of that ratio is independent of what units I use to measure the error. It would have the same value if measured in "kilometers per second per kilometers per second" Carbon dioxide's ppm ratio is simply the proportion of the atmosphere's mixture for which CO2 accounts. That proportion is not changed by altering the pressure or density (or temperature) of the air.

Now, let's say I start with, say, one million molecules of air, 400 of which will be carbon dioxide, and put them in a sealed container. Now I add, for example, 1,000 more molecules of CO2. We now have a total of 1,001,000 molecules in our container, 1,400 of which are carbon dioxide. Pulling out our calculator and doing the math we find that we now have 1,400 * (1,000,000 / 1,001,000) = just slightly in excess of 1,398.6 ppm carbon dioxide in our mixture. This may be where your misunderstanding lies. However, recall that in the Earth's atmosphere, to create a CO2 molecule, we will consume one O2 molecule (the carbon coming from the coal or oil). Thus the molecule count is unchanged by combustion and even this minor affect does not take place.

The point of all this is that adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere does not simply replace one greenhouse gas with another. It ADDS to the amount of greenhouse gas molecules in the atmosphere which increases the number of such molecules any photon of light will run into wending it's merry way into and finally out of the Earth's atmosphere. Adding CO2 or any other greenhouse gas (ex water vapor or methane) will increase the planet's equilibrium temperature - will cause the planet to warm.
 
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Now you claim there is no increase in ppm with density? WTF?

Molecules in the atmosphere are not a part of the density of the atmosphere? WTF do you think causes density? nothingness?

The two are unrelated. Density is a measure of - and is expressed in units of - mass per unit volume, such as kilograms per cubic meter. Parts per million is actually a "pseudo-unit" used to express dimensionless, fractional quantities. Here is Wikipedia's explanation. See if this helps.

In science and engineering, the parts-per notation is a set of pseudo units to describe small values of miscellaneous dimensionless quantities, e.g. mole fractionor mass fraction. Since these fractions are quantity-per-quantity measures, they are pure numbers with no associated units of measurement. Commonly used are ppm(parts-per-million, 10–6), ppb (parts-per-billion, 10–9), ppt (parts-per-trillion, 10–12) and ppq (parts-per-quadrillion, 10-15).

I could take a cubic meter of air with it's 400 ppm of CO2 and put it in a compressor and squeeze it down to a volume of one-tenth of a cubic meter. It's pressure would increase tenfold (to ten atmospheres or 101,325 hPA) and its density would increase tenfold (to 12.25 kg/m^3). But the fraction of that air that was made up of carbon dioxide would be unchanged: it would still be 400 ppm.

WRT "overwhelm" some dumb ass claimed that we've reached saturation for how much CO2 can be absorbed by plant life.

Well, I'm sure that may be the case for some species. I know it is not the case for all and that many species grow faster, taller, whatever, with more CO2. Unfortunately, changes in temperature and rainfall will dramatically overwhelm any such effects on a global scale. Increasing CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere has not increased agricultural productivity and will not do so going forward. Feel free to look that up.

ROFL omg... ROFL now the "expert" says molecules have no mass and are not present in the atmosphere and.... get this... because he can put air under pressure in a beaker he thinks air is not under pressure in our atmosphere. OMG you global warmers are soooo funny. Oh and in case you thought it wasn't gonna get any funnier he thinks he can put an "UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MOLECULES IN ONE BEAKER." Why does he think this? Simple cause if he can't then his dumb ass theory that molecules don't displace other molecules is... out the door.

Mr Brown (I assume that is your name), my name is Abraham. That used to be my nick here but I left and then tried to come back and management forced me to change it. If you go back through my posts in this latest discussion, I think you will find that I've been generally courteous; certainly more courteous than I have treated other people in this forum. I realize not everyone on my side of this argument has made the same effort (aside to RT: hint hint).

You know (as does everyone that has read my statement above) that I never said molecules have no mass and never said they weren't present in the atmosphere. I never said air wasn't under pressure in the atmosphere or that I could put an unlimited amount of air in a given volume.

What I said and what I explained by clear example is that changing the pressure and density of a gas does not affect the ppm ratios of it's constituent gases. As you saw in the Wikipedia text, the actual meaning of ppm in this usage is, effectively "molecules per million molecules" or "moles per million moles" (if you happen to know what moles are). Because you have the same entity in the numerator and denominator, the two cancel and you are left, as Wikipedia notes, with a massless quantity. Massless quantities are common in science and engineering. For example, if I wanted to speak of the error in a car's speedometer that was dependent on the actual velocity, I could end up with the units "mph error per actual mph", thus "mph per mph". Algebraically, the two cancel and you are left with a massless quantity. This is handy because the value of that ratio is independent of what units I use to measure the error. It would have the same value if measured in "kilometers per second per kilometers per second" Carbon dioxide's ppm ratio is simply the proportion of the atmosphere's mixture for which CO2 accounts. That proportion is not changed by altering the pressure or density (or temperature) of the air.

Now, let's say I start with, say, one million molecules of air, 400 of which will be carbon dioxide, and put them in a sealed container. Now I add, for example, 1,000 more molecules of CO2. We now have a total of 1,001,000 molecules in our container, 1,400 of which are carbon dioxide. Pulling out our calculator and doing the math we find that we now have 1,400 * (1,000,000 / 1,001,000) = just slightly in excess of 1,398.6 ppm carbon dioxide in our mixture. This may be where your misunderstanding lies. However, recall that in the Earth's atmosphere, to create a CO2 molecule, we will consume one O2 molecule (the carbon coming from the coal or oil). Thus the molecule count is unchanged by combustion and even this minor affect does not take place.

The point of all this is that adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere does not simply replace one greenhouse gas with another. It ADDS to the amount of greenhouse gas molecules in the atmosphere which increases the number of such molecules any photon of light will run into wending it's merry way into and finally out of the Earth's atmosphere. Adding CO2 or any other greenhouse gas (ex water vapor or methane) will increase the planet's equilibrium temperature - will cause the planet to warm.

Interesting. Thx for being courteous. mole as in unit... chemistry.. ick :)

So to repeat what I'm hearing. You are saying that taking into "isolation" the event where CO2 is generated by burning coal or other carbon sinks, we see that inert carbon and o2 enters the event and one molecule leaves (CO2). Thus when burning carbon sinks in that fashion co2 is swapped for o2 in the atmosphere. Ok. At that specific point in time of the life of that carbon and that pair of oxygen atoms... ok...

However, that is but a "point in time" no? Do plants not in turn convert that co2 right back into O2? The Oxygen atoms are not destroyed in the process, they are merely converted temporarily to CO2.

For example:

carboncycle.GIF

Here in these other examples we see natural means to use carbon as one of the key elements of life, no? We are after all "carbon" based life forms.


FYI I believe I was talking about H2O (water vapor) being displaced, not O2. Check above. It is my understanding that h2o in the form of vapor is the bulk of all greenhouse gases. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But I see that since O2 and CO2 have the same density, and are swapped, my guess was wrong in the case where air bound O2 was used in the combustion.
 
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Interesting piece of information:
At room temperature and atmospheric pressure, oxygen and carbon dioxide are both gasses. In fact, they are close to what scientists call ideal gasses. Ideal gasses are much more easy to understand than non-ideal gasses. For ideal gasses, the density of the gas (the weight for a given volume--basically the heaviness) is directly proportional to the mass of an individual molecule. For oxygen, a molecule consists of two oxygen atoms, and has a weight of 2 x 16 = 32. For carbon dioxide, there is one carbon atom (weight 12) and two oxygen atoms (mass 16 x 2) for a total of 44. This means that carbon dioxide should be about 44/32 = 1.375 times as heavy as an equivalent volume of oxygen. In reality, oxygen gas has a density of 1.429 grams/liter at the so-called standard pressure and temperature (basically room temperature and atmospheric pressure) while carbon dioxide has a density of 1.977 grams/liter. If you do the math, you will find that carbon dioxide is 1.383 times as heavy as oxygen. This means that the "ideal gas model" is very good in this cas

So swapping o2 for co2 is a no-op. One of the rare instances where the chemical reaction has a neutral effect wrt density of the gas.

Coming full circle... what makes us think the plants can't "ramp" up conversion of CO2 back to O2?
 
Someone who didn't suck hard at both logic and science would understand the craziness of claiming we have to heat the earth now to avert an ice age in 20,000 years. It's like claiming you have to start running the furnace full blast in July so that the house will be warm in winter. It's so dang stupid, you have to wonder if the person saying it is capable of feeding themselves.

However, that's still not as stupid as you claiming CO2 "displaced" other gases from the atmosphere. That's in the running for the single dumbest thing I've ever read here.
And, for the third time (you seem to have a habit of evading simple questions), explain to everyone how the observed increase in CO2 levels squares with your whackaloon claim that the the CO2 cycle can't be "overwhelmed." I mean, we know it was "overwhelmed", because we directly measure it being "overwhelmed".


So, you have no to any of his questions, no response to any of his comments. Got it.
How does one respond to the idiocy that believes increased parts per million of CO2 will increase the number of molecules per square inch in our atmosphere? How does one respond to such foolish notions as that? Do you even know what the name of the green house gas is that is the largest portion of our atmosphere? Can you even fathom that our atmosphere is not in a glass container? Do you not understand what a gas is? How does one respond to the utter lunacy of people that declare CO2 is bad for plant life?

Speaking of lunacy...

what do you say to someone making passionate rejoinders to arguments no one is presenting?
Now you are claiming that no one is arguing that human activity is causing global warming via increased amounts CO2 and further that the increased amounts of CO2 are "damaging" plants? WTF is wrong with your brain?
Nope, wrong again as usual, moron. Human activities, like burning CO2 emitting fossil fuels and deforestation, are definitely causing global warming by raising the natural pre-industrial CO2 levels of about 280ppm by over 43% to over 400ppm. Nobody said different. The "passionate rejoinders to arguments no one is presenting" that you are making and that Crick was referring to, involve idiotic statements that you have just made, like: "How does one respond to the idiocy that believes increased parts per million of CO2 will increase the number of molecules per square inch in our atmosphere?", which nobody ever claimed. Either you're a troll making up lies to bug and distract people, or you are a retard with ZERO reading comprehension skills.

CO2 is good for plants at its current concentration. Increasing concentrations of CO2 either have no effect (C4 photosynthesis) or it winds up being less good for the plants in one way or another. Your assumption that because something is necessary and beneficial (like CO2 for plants) then more (and more and more....) of it must be better, is very stupid. A certain amount of salt, for example, is necessary and beneficial to humans but try ingesting a hundred times as much daily for a while and see what happens to you (please).
And yet you have no evidence to support that any increase of CO2 affects temperatures. None, nada, zip. dude, please stop posting the same lie over and over especially after being told so. How silly is that? Very and stoopid and proves you have nothing.
 
Coming full circle... what makes us think the plants can't "ramp" up conversion of CO2 back to O2?

What makes you think that red herring is relevant to anything?

We directly measure how CO2 levels are increasing.

Therefore, your "but the carbon cycle compensates!" argument is bullshit. If the carbon cycle did compensate, CO2 levels wouldn't be increasing.

The direct measurements show your argument is bullshit. Therefore we know, with 100% certainty, that your argument is bullshit.

If you want me to use smaller words, you're out of luck, as I don't see how I can dumb it down any further.
 
Coming full circle... what makes us think the plants can't "ramp" up conversion of CO2 back to O2?

What makes you think that red herring is relevant to anything?

We directly measure how CO2 levels are increasing.

Therefore, your "but the carbon cycle compensates!" argument is bullshit. If the carbon cycle did compensate, CO2 levels wouldn't be increasing.

The direct measurements show your argument is bullshit. Therefore we know, with 100% certainty, that your argument is bullshit.

If you want me to use smaller words, you're out of luck, as I don't see how I can dumb it down any further.
Was rome built in a day? Why do you expect world wide plant growth of plants more amenable to the CO2 to occur overnight?
 
Coming full circle... what makes us think the plants can't "ramp" up conversion of CO2 back to O2?

What makes you think that red herring is relevant to anything?

We directly measure how CO2 levels are increasing.

Therefore, your "but the carbon cycle compensates!" argument is bullshit. If the carbon cycle did compensate, CO2 levels wouldn't be increasing.

The direct measurements show your argument is bullshit. Therefore we know, with 100% certainty, that your argument is bullshit.

If you want me to use smaller words, you're out of luck, as I don't see how I can dumb it down any further.
And yet, no evidence of temperature increase.
 
And yet, no evidence of temperature increase.

Good example of braindead denial of reality.

So far this year, in 2014, April was tied with April of 2010 as the hottest April on record, with records dating back to 1880. May and June were both the hottest May and June on record, and August and September were also the hottest August and September on record. October has so far been declared to be the hottest October in the satellite records and will probably be confirmed as the hottest October in the entire instrumental record as well.

The past 12 months -- October 2013-September 2014 -- was the warmest 12-month period among all months since records began in 1880....With the exception of February, every month to date in 2014 has been among its four warmest on record, with May, June, August, and September all record warm.
(NOAA - Global Analysis - September 2014)
 
So.....anybody else notice........for years, all the AGW crowd talked about was "temperature averages" being critical!! But because since 1998, temps have only increased by a fraction of 1 degree, now they want to ALWAYS be talking about specific years that serve their agenda well ( see dumbasses world temperature post above :ahole-1:).

These people are like chameleons..............they can morph and change the narrative around at a moments notice to suit their needs but the problem is, it doesn't pass the smell test.:banned:
 
So.....anybody else notice........for years, all the AGW crowd talked about was "temperature averages" being critical!! But because since 1998, temps have only increased by a fraction of 1 degree, now they want to ALWAYS be talking about specific years that serve their agenda well ( see dumbasses world temperature post above :ahole-1:).

These people are like chameleons..............they can morph and change the narrative around at a moments notice to suit their needs but the problem is, it doesn't pass the smell test.
 
And yet, no evidence of temperature increase.

Good example of braindead denial of reality.

So far this year, in 2014, April was tied with April of 2010 as the hottest April on record, with records dating back to 1880. May and June were both the hottest May and June on record, and August and September were also the hottest August and September on record. October has so far been declared to be the hottest October in the satellite records and will probably be confirmed as the hottest October in the entire instrumental record as well.

The past 12 months -- October 2013-September 2014 -- was the warmest 12-month period among all months since records began in 1880....With the exception of February, every month to date in 2014 has been among its four warmest on record, with May, June, August, and September all record warm.
(NOAA - Global Analysis - September 2014)
sure it was!! what does that get you?
 
And there go three more worthless deranged brainfarts from the kookster troll.
And you're the one with nothing to provide to the discussion! Glad you understand your part in the thread. your time is best utilized continuing to play with your dolls.
 
And the rabbit poop brothers leaving their shit pellets all over will not address empirical OBSERVED evidence which blows their crap out of the water...

Too Funny....

I love to see that real science is WINNING!

With most of the US 25-35 degrees below normal Nov will be below normal smashing the poop brothers hopes of the hottest year ev'a!
 
And there go three more worthless deranged brainfarts from the kookster troll.
And you're the one with nothing to provide to the discussion! Glad you understand your part in the thread. your time is best utilized continuing to play with your dolls.

Naw that would be his BROKEN Models... He cant figure out why they never work...
 
And yet, no evidence of temperature increase.

Good example of braindead denial of reality.

So far this year, in 2014, April was tied with April of 2010 as the hottest April on record, with records dating back to 1880. May and June were both the hottest May and June on record, and August and September were also the hottest August and September on record. October has so far been declared to be the hottest October in the satellite records and will probably be confirmed as the hottest October in the entire instrumental record as well.

The past 12 months -- October 2013-September 2014 -- was the warmest 12-month period among all months since records began in 1880....With the exception of February, every month to date in 2014 has been among its four warmest on record, with May, June, August, and September all record warm.
(NOAA - Global Analysis - September 2014)
sure it was!! what does that get you?
Clear evidence of global temperature increases. You poor blind retard.
 
First big heat event melts Australian temperature records

Australia's first major heatwave of the warming season has broken temperature records across the nation, more than a month before the official start to summer.

On Saturday, the country set its warmest October day in records going back to 1910, with average maximums across the nation reaching 36.39 degrees, according to the Bureau of Meteorology.

The previous record for October was set on the 31st of the month in 1988, at 36.31 degrees.

Warm in Australia.



Read more: First big heat event melts Australian temperature records
 
Europe Faces Cold Winter After Longest Warm Spell Since 1964 - Bloomberg

Temperatures in Europe are forecast to be warmer than average this month in the mildest year since 1964 before plunging below normal this winter, potentially pushing up power and natural gas prices.

Six of seven forecasters surveyed by Bloomberg predict November to be milder than normal across Europe, marking 10 months of above-average temperatures this year. December through February is expected to be the 10th-coldest winter since 1981, according to MDA Information Systems LLC.

Warm in Europe
 
The best time to go on a Botswana holiday weather climate.

So below is a broad guide to the climate of Botswana. Please remember that this comes from records and our experience, not from a crystal ball. Weather patterns across Africa are becoming increasingly unpredictable, probably due to global warming; we're seeing downpours in the middle of deserts and damaging droughts when rains should be falling.

Interesting, an assessment from a businessman, not a climate expert.
 

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