My hats off to ya, it is not an easy road. I have travelled that road as well.
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41% of children born to unmarried mothers!
- Thread starter get_involved
- Start date
My hats off to ya, it is not an easy road. I have travelled that road as well.
Is it coincidental that the whole of American society has deteriorated so much? I think not.
children born to unmarried mothers living in poverty or on low incomes is definitely a problem
children born to unmarried women who are successful and independent is nobodys business and I have no problem with it.
when unwed welfare mothers have children it is a problem for society
when murphy brown has a child it is NOT.
As I have a kid out of wedlock, I will not say my son is a mistake nor a problem.
No one is saying that your sone is a mistake or a problem.
Robbing children of both their parents is dangerous for society.
society be damned!
If we take proper care of the kids society will tend to itself.
Society starts with each individual.
Kids of this generation are even less prepared to care for a child than my generation was.
Children having children is a mess.
And a lot of the blame belongs on my generation, and the next one whose children are now having children. My generation became too involved with money and material things and neglected what is really important, the family. But it made lots of money for corporations and such.
2 working parents became the norm just to support lifestyles that were not needed.
But we just have to have that too big house or a new car or two every couple of years, big vactaions, boat, motorcycles, 4 wheelers, etc. $140 sneakers for our kids, etc... Because we were taught by the corporations that we had to buy our self respect. It even worked it's way into our religion a few decades ago.
Sigh....
We have worked hard to get in this mess and I do not think we still have what it takes to get ourselves out of it.
Last edited:
gekaap
Rookie
- Jan 25, 2011
- 1,795
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- #24
All this talk of "morals" is stupid. Morals have nothing to do with anything here. Children come from having sex, and having sex is not immoral as long as it's done by two consenting people. Stop talking about morals, because that kind of talk CONTRIBUTES to the problem.
The real problem is the lack of RESPONSIBILITY in our society, the indulgence and gluttony and excess that our country proclaims as virtues and as signs of our social value. We want to be a rich business owner, but not pay the employees that keep us in business, or provide a quality product. We want to get drunk, but not get hung over. We want to over eat, but not gain weight. We want to have sex, but not take the steps to prevent pregnancy. As long as our society values and rewards wide ranges of irresponsibility, other forms of irresponsibility will continue to grow.
The real problem is the lack of RESPONSIBILITY in our society, the indulgence and gluttony and excess that our country proclaims as virtues and as signs of our social value. We want to be a rich business owner, but not pay the employees that keep us in business, or provide a quality product. We want to get drunk, but not get hung over. We want to over eat, but not gain weight. We want to have sex, but not take the steps to prevent pregnancy. As long as our society values and rewards wide ranges of irresponsibility, other forms of irresponsibility will continue to grow.
As I have a kid out of wedlock, I will not say my son is a mistake nor a problem.
No one is saying that your sone is a mistake or a problem.
Robbing children of both their parents is dangerous for society.
society be damned!
If we take proper care of the kids society will tend to itself.
Society starts with each individual.
Kids of this generation are even less prepared to care for a child than my generation was.
Children having children is a mess.
And a lot of the blame belongs on my generation, and the next one whose children are now having children. My generation became too involved with money and material things and neglected what is really important, the family. But it made lots of money for corporations and such.
2 working parents became the norm just to support lifestyles that were not needed.
But we just have to have that too big house or a new car or two every couple of years, big vactaions, boat, motorcycles, 4 wheelers, etc. $140 sneakers for our kids, etc... Because we were taught by the corporations that we had to buy our self respect.
Sigh....
We have worked hard to get in this mess and I do not think we still have what it takes to get ourselves out of it.
1. sex education in schools might help stem this problem. Helping to teach young people how to avoid having children until they are READY to have children might help a lot....
2. in 1950 one parent stayed home with the kids while one parent worked. The working parent earned enough to;
buy a house
buy food
buy clothes,
send the kids to college
take a 2 week vacation every year
and live a decent life....
by the end of the 1960s things began to change
people were getting married and, instead of one staying home, they BOTH worked....
TWO PAYCHECKS meant that young couples were rolling in dough!
since MOST couples now had 2 pay checks (and lotsa money) prices, naturally, began to rise to offset this situation...
prices (cost of living) rose to a level at which people now NEEDED 2 incomes just to live...
which is where they are at now....
the average young couple could NOT survive (or live as well as the average young couple of the 1950s) onjust one paycheck....
my daughter and her husband (with one child) both work at very good and relatively well paid jobs and STILL have trouble making ends meets
if one of them (my daughter?) quite his/her job they would probably lose their house, starve to death and NEVER be able to afford to send their child to college
the MORE money people make
the HIGHER PRICES go (the cost of living will ALWAYS rise to meet/match peoples income)
a Basic rule of American capitalism....
if the average person were to earn 1 million dollars a year then the cost of living would NATURALLY rise to...a million dollars a year
if the average couple earns 10 gazillion dollars a year then the cost of living would rise to....10 gazillion dollars a year....
it's too late to change that now.....
cost of living goes UP...NEVER DOWN.....
the only way to go back to the 1950s (1 income per household) would be to LOWER THE COST OF LIVING...
and THAT will NEVER happen
sorry......
Last edited:
I think basic child care should be required in HS as well. For both sexes.
this should also include basic use of over the counter medications so they could treat the sniffles before it became an emergency room issue.
Who teaches anyone how to treat sniffles and colds in children?
When to seek professional medical help?
This could be taught by a RN who would come into the school for one month each semester.
Also basic household finance should also be a required course in HS.
And if a child drops out of HS the parent should lose the tax deduction for that child.
this should also include basic use of over the counter medications so they could treat the sniffles before it became an emergency room issue.
Who teaches anyone how to treat sniffles and colds in children?
When to seek professional medical help?
This could be taught by a RN who would come into the school for one month each semester.
Also basic household finance should also be a required course in HS.
And if a child drops out of HS the parent should lose the tax deduction for that child.
And I bet the left sees no problem developing here...
Do we or can we maybe remember what morals are?
They don't that they will claw out your eyes if you say anything
These " fragile families" are not a new phenomenon. In 1965, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, then a Labor Department official and later a prominent senator, rang alarm bells when unmarried births in the black community were nearing 24%. (The rate among white mothers was about 3% then.) But his paper on the subject ignited a furor, particularly among fellow liberals and civil rights leaders, who charged him with racism and blaming the victim.
What about this other bad nugget! Our kids are fat, lazy, out of shape and stupid!!!
What's the matter with kids today? A great deal more than you might realize.
One-third are overweight or obese. Nearly a third drop out or can't finish high school in four years. All told, 75% are in such a poor state that they are ineligible for military service for reasons ranging from health to drugs to criminal records to lack of education.
Last month came bad news about the rest: 23% of those who try to enlist fail the basic entrance exam.
JFK_USA
Gold Member
- Aug 31, 2009
- 2,606
- 412
- 130
No one is saying that your sone is a mistake or a problem.
Robbing children of both their parents is dangerous for society.
society be damned!
If we take proper care of the kids society will tend to itself.
Society starts with each individual.
Kids of this generation are even less prepared to care for a child than my generation was.
Children having children is a mess.
And a lot of the blame belongs on my generation, and the next one whose children are now having children. My generation became too involved with money and material things and neglected what is really important, the family. But it made lots of money for corporations and such.
2 working parents became the norm just to support lifestyles that were not needed.
But we just have to have that too big house or a new car or two every couple of years, big vactaions, boat, motorcycles, 4 wheelers, etc. $140 sneakers for our kids, etc... Because we were taught by the corporations that we had to buy our self respect.
Sigh....
We have worked hard to get in this mess and I do not think we still have what it takes to get ourselves out of it.
1. sex education in schools might help stem this problem. Helping to teach young people how to avoid having children until they are READY to have children might help a lot....
2. in 1950 one parent stayed home with the kids while one parent worked. The working parent earned enough to;
buy a house
buy food
buy clothes,
send the kids to college
take a 2 week vacation every year
and live a decent life....
by the end of the 1960s things began to change
people were getting married and, instead of one staying home, they BOTH worked....
TWO PAYCHECKS meant that young couples were rolling in dough!
since MOST couples now had 2 pay checks (and lotsa money) prices, naturally, began to rise to offset this situation...
prices (cost of living) rose to a level at which people now NEEDED 2 incomes just to live...
which is where they are at now....
the average young couple could NOT survive (or live as well as the average young couple of the 1950s) onjust one paycheck....
my daughter and her husband (with one child) both work at very good and relatively well paid jobs and STILL have trouble making ends meets
if one of them (my daughter?) quite his/her job they would probably lose their house, starve to death and NEVER be able to afford to send their child to college
the MORE money people make
the HIGHER PRICES go (the cost of living will ALWAYS rise to meet/match peoples income)
a Basic rule of American capitalism....
if the average person were to earn 1 million dollars a year then the cost of living would NATURALLY rise to...a million dollars a year
if the average couple earns 10 gazillion dollars a year then the cost of living would rise to....10 gazillion dollars a year....
it's too late to change that now.....
cost of living goes UP...NEVER DOWN.....
the only way to go back to the 1950s (1 income per household) would be to LOWER THE COST OF LIVING...
and THAT will NEVER happen
sorry......
Wow that was a great analysis. I agree. And the dynamic of the family really comes into play now more than ever. Kids are around their grandparents more often because its free babysitting. I don't think its impossible to live off of 1 income and WE are at a crossroads. I mean look at the real estate bubble. Its coming for food. Sooner or later, people won't be able to afford food and then what will happen to our country? We don't build anything and most of our economy is based on consumer spending. I mean eventually that bubble will burst and we all will have no money because nobody is buying anything because they have no money (see what I did there).
Eventually we are going to reach a bigger crisis than we did before. We better have the tools to get us through again.
society be damned!
If we take proper care of the kids society will tend to itself.
Society starts with each individual.
Kids of this generation are even less prepared to care for a child than my generation was.
Children having children is a mess.
And a lot of the blame belongs on my generation, and the next one whose children are now having children. My generation became too involved with money and material things and neglected what is really important, the family. But it made lots of money for corporations and such.
2 working parents became the norm just to support lifestyles that were not needed.
But we just have to have that too big house or a new car or two every couple of years, big vactaions, boat, motorcycles, 4 wheelers, etc. $140 sneakers for our kids, etc... Because we were taught by the corporations that we had to buy our self respect.
Sigh....
We have worked hard to get in this mess and I do not think we still have what it takes to get ourselves out of it.
1. sex education in schools might help stem this problem. Helping to teach young people how to avoid having children until they are READY to have children might help a lot....
2. in 1950 one parent stayed home with the kids while one parent worked. The working parent earned enough to;
buy a house
buy food
buy clothes,
send the kids to college
take a 2 week vacation every year
and live a decent life....
by the end of the 1960s things began to change
people were getting married and, instead of one staying home, they BOTH worked....
TWO PAYCHECKS meant that young couples were rolling in dough!
since MOST couples now had 2 pay checks (and lotsa money) prices, naturally, began to rise to offset this situation...
prices (cost of living) rose to a level at which people now NEEDED 2 incomes just to live...
which is where they are at now....
the average young couple could NOT survive (or live as well as the average young couple of the 1950s) onjust one paycheck....
my daughter and her husband (with one child) both work at very good and relatively well paid jobs and STILL have trouble making ends meets
if one of them (my daughter?) quite his/her job they would probably lose their house, starve to death and NEVER be able to afford to send their child to college
the MORE money people make
the HIGHER PRICES go (the cost of living will ALWAYS rise to meet/match peoples income)
a Basic rule of American capitalism....
if the average person were to earn 1 million dollars a year then the cost of living would NATURALLY rise to...a million dollars a year
if the average couple earns 10 gazillion dollars a year then the cost of living would rise to....10 gazillion dollars a year....
it's too late to change that now.....
cost of living goes UP...NEVER DOWN.....
the only way to go back to the 1950s (1 income per household) would be to LOWER THE COST OF LIVING...
and THAT will NEVER happen
sorry......
Wow that was a great analysis. I agree. And the dynamic of the family really comes into play now more than ever. Kids are around their grandparents more often because its free babysitting. I don't think its impossible to live off of 1 income and WE are at a crossroads. I mean look at the real estate bubble. Its coming for food. Sooner or later, people won't be able to afford food and then what will happen to our country? We don't build anything and most of our economy is based on consumer spending. I mean eventually that bubble will burst and we all will have no money because nobody is buying anything because they have no money (see what I did there).
Eventually we are going to reach a bigger crisis than we did before. We better have the tools to get us through again.
yep you are figuring it out. The probability of a death spiral in a consumer spending based economy when combined with a world economy and free trade.
At least for an affluent consumer based economy, good for the poorer ones involved though.
We have to learn to be satisfied with less in any case. But that in itself could trigger the downward spiral....
A consumer spending based economy is just not sustainable. I have been saying that since the 80's. It takes a while to spin down, but...
exactly if the parents are married or not is a personal moral issue .Is it coincidental that the whole of American society has deteriorated so much? I think not.
children born to unmarried mothers living in poverty or on low incomes is definitely a problem
children born to unmarried women who are successful and independent is nobodys business and I have no problem with it.
when unwed welfare mothers have children it is a problem for society
when murphy brown has a child it is NOT.
mothers dropping a kid once a year cus they have been assured the govt will take care of them is where the problem lies .
example
applying for food stamps .
you have to be below a certain income and there is a limit on the amount of money your can have in a bank account
the amounts may very state to state .
in Texas IF anyone in your* household * is PREGNANT you do not have to be **Married ** to this person
CAN BE WIFE, MOTHER , SISTER DAUGHTER OR JUST SO0MEBODY WHO LIVES THERE .
the income questions are not allowed to be asked .
one of the most stupid PC regulations every inacted if thats not a incentive for the sick lame and lazy to continually knock out kids with out shouldering any responsability what is ?????
i
California Girl
Rookie
- Oct 8, 2009
- 50,337
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- #34
Morals are what they happen to be. There is no set standard, it keeps changing and depends on where you are.And I bet the left sees no problem developing here...
Do we or can we maybe remember what morals are?
A very moral person in Pakistan would have their wife killed for cheating on them.
A very moral businessman may think cheating on taxes is fine, but getting cuaght is not.
A very moral Baptist might see things differently from a Catholic who thinks drinking and gambling is fine morals.
A very Moral Jehovas witness would let their child die before letting them get a blood transfusion.
it used to be very moral to have duels to settle disputes. Own slaves, etc.
A Catholic may think drinking or gambling IN MODERATION is fine. You have very little concept of the realities of other peoples' faith.
bucs90
Gold Member
- Feb 25, 2010
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So basically, we have a bunch of people whining about not being able to afford healthcare.
Then they go out, fuck like rabbits, and pop out babies out of wedlock, and put their palms out hoping Obama will rain down some gov't checks to them.
All hope for society is lost.
Then they go out, fuck like rabbits, and pop out babies out of wedlock, and put their palms out hoping Obama will rain down some gov't checks to them.
All hope for society is lost.
Willworkforcrak
Rookie
- Jan 26, 2011
- 30
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- #36
I remember growing up in school that if you're parents were married or even divorced you weren't normal. Personally who cares if they're not married, what's it to another person how someone else lives their life. Their is worse stuff to be put in the closet.
*rolls eyes*
*rolls eyes*
The sad thing is with the majority of kids growing up in broken homes and/or without 2 loving parents the only thing we can worry about in terms of social issues is whether or not gays should be allowed to get married.
We should spend more time worrying about how to fix the reflection in the mirror rather than telling other people how to live when we clearly have no clue ourselves.
We should spend more time worrying about how to fix the reflection in the mirror rather than telling other people how to live when we clearly have no clue ourselves.
jillian
Princess
And I bet the left sees no problem developing here...
Do we or can we maybe remember what morals are?
the left??? really???
how about the 'right'?
it seems to be an issue of poverty and lack of education.
you know, those things the right wants to cut funding for.
TEACH SEX ED... not ABSTINENCE ONLY. That might be a good start. Morals are for parents to teach and aren't the purview of government.
i love how that 'small government' thing matters unless it's to interfere in people's private lives.
Morals are what they happen to be. There is no set standard, it keeps changing and depends on where you are.And I bet the left sees no problem developing here...
Do we or can we maybe remember what morals are?
A very moral person in Pakistan would have their wife killed for cheating on them.
A very moral businessman may think cheating on taxes is fine, but getting cuaght is not.
A very moral Baptist might see things differently from a Catholic who thinks drinking and gambling is fine morals.
A very Moral Jehovas witness would let their child die before letting them get a blood transfusion.
it used to be very moral to have duels to settle disputes. Own slaves, etc.
A Catholic may think drinking or gambling IN MODERATION is fine. You have very little concept of the realities of other peoples' faith.
Many Pentecostals do not think drinking or gambling in any amount is fine. That is my point. Keep that knee from hitting your chin now girl
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