A message from a veteran about firearms in this country

[Jarlaxle]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Anyone Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue

Six month of heavy combat in Vietnam, 1966-1967, machinegunner MOS (0331) H/2/5 Marines. Thirty-eight of the 150 Marines in my company (never T/O) died in my half-tour out in the bush. Except your precious sissyboy Bush was never out in the bush, was he? If you don't have a problem with birth privileges, you don't know what this country originally stood for.

It is true that bush didn't fly in combat. However the aircraft he flew was a notorious for killing it's pilots. IIRC the death rate was around 15%, and the first twelve pilots to attempt ejection were killed. The ejection seat was a major problem for several years. So, yes, while bushie didn't fight overseas, he did take significant risks flying the 106.

The F106 Delta Dart (aka "manned missile") was a vicious plane to fly...I recall the highest accident rate of any US jet fighter before or since.

 

[Rustic]

More gun control laws - more violent crime... fact

 

[Divine Wind]

This is scare mongering from the right. It seems they think this is the fear they can use most to turn people against Hillary. They tried the "He'll take your guns" against Obama and it didn't work and didn't happen.

It's not scare-mongering when Hillary herself uses LW anti-gun memes like "close the gun show loophole" (code for "ban private sales") and continues to press the "30,000 gun deaths" bullshit, over 17,000 of which are suicides. Notice not one fucking word about the real problem: the lack of proper mental health care in the US.

 

[Geaux4it]

I am a veteran of the United States Army. I served as a 12B (Combat Engineer) in the 37th Engineer Battalion, part of the illustrious 82nd Airborne Division

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why any civilian needs or wants to own an assault rifle. During OSUT (a form of initial training where Basic and AIT are rolled into one course), we learned that our rifles were deadly weapons, designed solely for killing the enemy on a battlefield. When we trained with our weapons, we had to shoot a "qualification" test. We were presented with forty popup targets, one after another at different distances, from fifty to three hundred meters, all in very quick succession. We had to kill at least twenty three targets to pass the test, but most of us, including those of us who never fired a gun before, easily shot thirty or more targets. All this was in the span of less than two minutes, and we even had to reload once in that time. I don't get why any civilian needs to kill thirty people in two minutes, unless he is deliberately causing carnage and mass death.

The civilian AR15 is just a M-4 carbine by any other name. The only difference is that it does not have burst capacity. That is not nearly as big a difference as the NRA makes it out to be. We never, ever used burst mode in the military, since it wasted ammo, was inaccurate, and generally useless. Besides for that difference, the AR 15 is the exact same as the M4. The M4's features are designed to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time, including a detachable magazine which allows for rapid reloading and a buffer tube and muzzle brake which dampens recoil, so that a shooter can fire off a large number of rounds with minimal affect on accuracy.

All the arguments about " I need my AR 15 for hunting" or "I need my Ar15 for self defense" are entirely ridiculous. The 5.56 Nato round, which the Ar15 uses, is designed to pierce body armor. Which deer wears body armor? And your fantasies about shooting fifteen home invaders at once is just that: a fantasy which will likely never happen. The only real purpose of the AR 15 in American society is to kill large numbers of clubgoers, schoolchildren, or innocent bystanders at a time.

And for those of you who claim that "my Ar15 will protect me from tyranny," guess what, you're wrong. In my time in the military, I saw that no civilian rebellion would ever stand a chance against us. We have M1 Abrams tanks which can survive multiple rocket hits. We have drones which can bomb your house while being controlled by a person a thousand miles away. If worst came to worst, we have nuclear weapons which can quickly bring a seceding city or state into the stone age.

let's also talk about concealed carry. You are civilians. You are not deployed to a foreign country halfway around the globe. You are not fighting basically an entire for the sake of securing their oil supplies. You are not under constant threat of attack from people defending their homes from foreign invaders.

Therefore, you have no reason to carry a gun in public. Nobody needs to carry a handgun into mcDonald's or into a bank. You are not in a war zone.

And don;t give me the bs that concealed carry decreases crime. It has been proven, by STANFORD UNIVERSITY, that concealed carry actually INCREASES violent crime:

Right-to-carry gun laws linked to increase in violent crime, Stanford research shows

Trust me, I used to be an NRA member myself when i was 18. I bought into the propaganda because i was stupid, uninformed, and thought it was fun to play with guns. After joining the military, I learned to treat firearms, especially assault rifles, as tools of death and destruction, something which should be kept out of most civilian hands.

The right wing claims to respect veterans, so please listen to the words of a former soldier. I trained with assault rifles. I carried an assault rifle as part of my job. I can tell you that the military M-4 and the Ar-15 are nearly identical, and that no civilian needs a weapon designed to kill dozens of people in a matter of minutes.

Opinions are like... well.....

-Geaux

 

[frigidweirdo]

This is scare mongering from the right. It seems they think this is the fear they can use most to turn people against Hillary. They tried the "He'll take your guns" against Obama and it didn't work and didn't happen.

It's not scare-mongering when Hillary herself uses LW anti-gun memes like "close the gun show loophole" (code for "ban private sales") and continues to press the "30,000 gun deaths" bullshit, over 17,000 of which are suicides. Notice not one fucking word about the real problem: the lack of proper mental health care in the US.

Well it is. Just because she might want to do something, doesn't mean she'll be able to do it. In order to stop private sales you need a change in the constitution. She doesn't have the power to do that. So....

 

[Divine Wind]

The F106 Delta Dart (aka "manned missile") was a vicious plane to fly...I recall the highest accident rate of any US jet fighter before or since.

That's probably more about training and operator error than design flaws since it was used as a drone well into the 1980s.

The Navy and Marines had a very high accident rate in the 1950s and early 1960s. NATOPS (standardization) helped reduce that accident rate significantly. I expect the Air Force instituted a similar program to reduce accidents.

As for the ejection seat, early seats were "cannon" seats and had a relatively narrow ejection seat envelope. Too low/slow or too fast, especially in a supersonic interceptor, and the ejecting pilot wouldn't survive. That was common among all fighters at the time.

 

[Divine Wind]

Well it is. Just because she might want to do something, doesn't mean she'll be able to do it. In order to stop private sales you need a change in the constitution. She doesn't have the power to do that. So....

Nonetheless, contrary to your earlier accusation of "fear-mongering", the fact remains she wants to do it. So do a lot of other LW anti-gun advocates.

A politician can say they support the First Amendment every day, but if they also advocate banning typewriters, regulating personal computers and the media, then they really aren't supporting the First Amendment, are they?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well it is. Just because she might want to do something, doesn't mean she'll be able to do it. In order to stop private sales you need a change in the constitution. She doesn't have the power to do that. So....

Nonetheless, contrary to your earlier accusation of "fear-mongering", the fact remains she wants to do it. So do a lot of other LW anti-gun advocates.

A politician can say they support the First Amendment every day, but if they also advocate banning typewriters, regulating personal computers and the media, then they really aren't supporting the First Amendment, are they?

But fear mongering would be that she could actually do it. She can't. A lot of people want to get rid of guns, I mean, 3/4 of all murders are with guns.

Find a politician who could make the real changes necessary to make the US a safer place without taking guns away, and you'll find a gem who'll probably never make it in US politics.

Well, supporting the First Amendment requires understand of the Amendment, the same with all others. Most people are willing to shout out that their rights should be protected, while also shouting out that someone else's rights shouldn't be protected. Seems to be the way of rights.

 

[2aguy]

This is scare mongering from the right. It seems they think this is the fear they can use most to turn people against Hillary. They tried the "He'll take your guns" against Obama and it didn't work and didn't happen.

It's not scare-mongering when Hillary herself uses LW anti-gun memes like "close the gun show loophole" (code for "ban private sales") and continues to press the "30,000 gun deaths" bullshit, over 17,000 of which are suicides. Notice not one fucking word about the real problem: the lack of proper mental health care in the US.

Well it is. Just because she might want to do something, doesn't mean she'll be able to do it. In order to stop private sales you need a change in the constitution. She doesn't have the power to do that. So....

No, actually, you won't.....you put in 1 Supreme Court justice and then a town, city or state enacts and end to private gun sales...they take it to hilary's Supreme Court and that's it......private sales are over....

 

[2aguy]

This is scare mongering from the right. It seems they think this is the fear they can use most to turn people against Hillary. They tried the "He'll take your guns" against Obama and it didn't work and didn't happen.

It's not scare-mongering when Hillary herself uses LW anti-gun memes like "close the gun show loophole" (code for "ban private sales") and continues to press the "30,000 gun deaths" bullshit, over 17,000 of which are suicides. Notice not one fucking word about the real problem: the lack of proper mental health care in the US.

Yes...she lied by omission, as all the gun grabbers do because the actual numbers show they are liars......

From the CDC, gun suicide and non gun suicide 2014...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf


Gun Suicide.....21,334

non gun suicide... 21,439

From the FBI....2014 gun murder number....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Gun murder 2014.....8,312.....

So out of 320,000,000 million people....8,312 were murdered with guns...and of those 8,312....research shows 70-80% of them are career criminals killed for being criminals by other criminals...and of the remaining number...many are the friends and family of those same criminals....

 

[Divine Wind]

But fear mongering would be that she could actually do it. She can't. A lot of people want to get rid of guns, I mean, 3/4 of all murders are with guns.

Find a politician who could make the real changes necessary to make the US a safer place without taking guns away, and you'll find a gem who'll probably never make it in US politics.

Well, supporting the First Amendment requires understand of the Amendment, the same with all others. Most people are willing to shout out that their rights should be protected, while also shouting out that someone else's rights shouldn't be protected. Seems to be the way of rights.

So are you saying she's just blowing hot air, empty rhetoric and grandstanding for her fans talking about banning guns and imposing more gun control even though you and her know she can't really do it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

But fear mongering would be that she could actually do it. She can't. A lot of people want to get rid of guns, I mean, 3/4 of all murders are with guns.

Find a politician who could make the real changes necessary to make the US a safer place without taking guns away, and you'll find a gem who'll probably never make it in US politics.

Well, supporting the First Amendment requires understand of the Amendment, the same with all others. Most people are willing to shout out that their rights should be protected, while also shouting out that someone else's rights shouldn't be protected. Seems to be the way of rights.

So are you saying she's just blowing hot air, empty rhetoric and grandstanding for her fans talking about banning guns and imposing more gun control even though you and her know she can't really do it?

She's appealing to those people who are likely to support her. Just as people on all sides do the same thing. Remember Trump saying Mexico would pay for he wall. Er... right, sure thing Donald.

 

[Divine Wind]

She's appealing to those people who are likely to support her. Just as people on all sides do the same thing. Remember Trump saying Mexico would pay for he wall. Er... right, sure thing Donald.

I'll be the first to admit Trump is a lying blowhard politician, but it's nice to see you agree Hillary and Trump are alike.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Anyone Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue

Six month of heavy combat in Vietnam, 1966-1967, machinegunner MOS (0331) H/2/5 Marines. Thirty-eight of the 150 Marines in my company (never T/O) died in my half-tour out in the bush. Except your precious sissyboy Bush was never out in the bush, was he? If you don't have a problem with birth privileges, you don't know what this country originally stood for.

It is true that bush didn't fly in combat. However the aircraft he flew was a notorious for killing it's pilots. IIRC the death rate was around 15%, and the first twelve pilots to attempt ejection were killed. The ejection seat was a major problem for several years. So, yes, while bushie didn't fight overseas, he did take significant risks flying the 106.

The F106 Delta Dart (aka "manned missile") was a vicious plane to fly...I recall the highest accident rate of any US jet fighter before or since.

The Preppy Republic

No matter what lies you've been told, that pampered preppy pipsqueak never would have been put in any danger. America is headed for destruction as long as it is run, in all sectors, based on birth, not worth, by bluebloods and brownnoses and not by brains. No one has a right to a dime from his Daddy; that's for children. Nor can he have any other special privileges.

It even extends to a matter of life and death in escaping from frontline duty, showing how far we've sunk even below the French version of preppies, who got the guillotine. If that spoiled class has a future here, the rest of the Millennials don't. The flunky professors won't tell you this, but America was settled by refugees from the tyranny of unearned aristocratic domination. All traces of that must be eradicated here and now.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Anyone Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue

Six month of heavy combat in Vietnam, 1966-1967, machinegunner MOS (0331) H/2/5 Marines. Thirty-eight of the 150 Marines in my company (never T/O) died in my half-tour out in the bush. Except your precious sissyboy Bush was never out in the bush, was he? If you don't have a problem with birth privileges, you don't know what this country originally stood for.

It is true that bush didn't fly in combat. However the aircraft he flew was a notorious for killing it's pilots. IIRC the death rate was around 15%, and the first twelve pilots to attempt ejection were killed. The ejection seat was a major problem for several years. So, yes, while bushie didn't fight overseas, he did take significant risks flying the 106.

The F106 Delta Dart (aka "manned missile") was a vicious plane to fly...I recall the highest accident rate of any US jet fighter before or since.

The Preppy Republic

No matter what lies you've been told, that pampered preppy pipsqueak never would have been put in any danger. America is headed for destruction as long as it is run, in all sectors, based on birth, not worth, by bluebloods and brownnoses and not by brains. No one has a right to a dime from his Daddy; that's for children. Nor can he have any other special privileges.

It even extends to a matter of life and death in escaping from frontline duty, showing how far we've sunk even below the French version of preppies, who got the guillotine. If that spoiled class has a future here, the rest of the Millennials don't. The flunky professors won't tell you this, but America was settled by refugees from the tyranny of unearned aristocratic domination. All traces of that must be eradicated here and now.

Yup, Sage....we are basking in the afterglow of a once great nation.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Anyone Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue

Six month of heavy combat in Vietnam, 1966-1967, machinegunner MOS (0331) H/2/5 Marines. Thirty-eight of the 150 Marines in my company (never T/O) died in my half-tour out in the bush. Except your precious sissyboy Bush was never out in the bush, was he? If you don't have a problem with birth privileges, you don't know what this country originally stood for.

It is true that bush didn't fly in combat. However the aircraft he flew was a notorious for killing it's pilots. IIRC the death rate was around 15%, and the first twelve pilots to attempt ejection were killed. The ejection seat was a major problem for several years. So, yes, while bushie didn't fight overseas, he did take significant risks flying the 106.

The F106 Delta Dart (aka "manned missile") was a vicious plane to fly...I recall the highest accident rate of any US jet fighter before or since.

The Preppy Republic

No matter what lies you've been told, that pampered preppy pipsqueak never would have been put in any danger. America is headed for destruction as long as it is run, in all sectors, based on birth, not worth, by bluebloods and brownnoses and not by brains. No one has a right to a dime from his Daddy; that's for children. Nor can he have any other special privileges.

It even extends to a matter of life and death in escaping from frontline duty, showing how far we've sunk even below the French version of preppies, who got the guillotine. If that spoiled class has a future here, the rest of the Millennials don't. The flunky professors won't tell you this, but America was settled by refugees from the tyranny of unearned aristocratic domination. All traces of that must be eradicated here and now.

No, lie.

 

[westwall]

The F106 Delta Dart (aka "manned missile") was a vicious plane to fly...I recall the highest accident rate of any US jet fighter before or since.

That's probably more about training and operator error than design flaws since it was used as a drone well into the 1980s.

The Navy and Marines had a very high accident rate in the 1950s and early 1960s. NATOPS (standardization) helped reduce that accident rate significantly. I expect the Air Force instituted a similar program to reduce accidents.

As for the ejection seat, early seats were "cannon" seats and had a relatively narrow ejection seat envelope. Too low/slow or too fast, especially in a supersonic interceptor, and the ejecting pilot wouldn't survive. That was common among all fighters at the time.

Nope. It was always a vicious aircraft to fly. The ejection seat fix took years (guess what the drones don't care if the ejection seat works) to fix and no, it was a particularly difficult aircraft to develop a seat for. Weber worked for years on a Zero/Zero seat. Convair gave up in frustration and contracted out of house for the fix.

 

[Divine Wind]

Nope. It was always a vicious aircraft to fly. The ejection seat fix took years (guess what the drones don't care if the ejection seat works) to fix and no, it was a particularly difficult aircraft to develop a seat for. Weber worked for years on a Zero/Zero seat. Convair gave up in frustration and contracted out of house for the fix.

Sorry, but the job of a fighter (or interceptor) pilot isn't to eject. It's to avoid ejecting. If it can be flown as a drone, it's not that vicious to fly.

 

[frigidweirdo]

She's appealing to those people who are likely to support her. Just as people on all sides do the same thing. Remember Trump saying Mexico would pay for he wall. Er... right, sure thing Donald.

I'll be the first to admit Trump is a lying blowhard politician, but it's nice to see you agree Hillary and Trump are alike.

So vote third party.

 

[Divine Wind]

She's appealing to those people who are likely to support her. Just as people on all sides do the same thing. Remember Trump saying Mexico would pay for he wall. Er... right, sure thing Donald.

I'll be the first to admit Trump is a lying blowhard politician, but it's nice to see you agree Hillary and Trump are alike.

So vote third party.

I am. It's not a secret I can't stand either Hillary or Trump, yet I also think it's a civic responsibility to vote. I'm sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. If anything, the Democrats have proved to everyone that "star chamber" picks the candidate they want the Democrats to support. Bernie threw a little wrinkle in their plans, but ultimately, the selected candidate was the one Democrats supported. The Republicans finally imploded to the point of complete disfunction. They'll need to get their shit together over the next four years if they want to regain power and take the WH in 2020.