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Nuclear power is a diversion.Actually all power companies love government subsidies. Who doesn't like freebies? That's not the point. The point is what are the nuts and bolts of startup costs and the nuts & bolts of paying for the fuel day after day. When all other things are equal, I'll invest in the company that uses free fuel as often as it can.I am perfectly OK with eliminating all subsidies for nuclear power. Now explain why no utility will build a solar power plant without government subsidies.
If subsidies were removed from nuclear power, the industry would die overnight and never be revived. It has been on massive life support since day 1 and has never had a chance of standing on its own two feet.
I am perfectly OK with eliminating all subsidies for nuclear power. Now explain why no utility will build a solar power plant without government subsidies.
Actually all power companies love government subsidies. Who doesn't like freebies? That's not the point. The point is what are the nuts and bolts of startup costs and the nuts & bolts of paying for the fuel day after day. When all other things are equal, I'll invest in the company that uses free fuel as often as it can.
If subsidies were removed from nuclear power, the industry would die overnight and never be revived. It has been on massive life support since day 1 and has never had a chance of standing on its own two feet.
What type of solar power are you talking about ? PV panels or solar thermal steam? Please don't betray your own diversion by throwing such a broad blanket. Specify; because the two types couldn't be more different as to the parameters of this discussion.Nuclear power is a diversion.
Yes, all companies love subsidies, but the question here is why should solar power need them if it's economically viable on its own? The answer is that it's not. Solar wouldn't exist without government subsidies. Anyone who denies it is a liar or an idiot.
I am perfectly OK with eliminating all subsidies for nuclear power. Now explain why no utility will build a solar power plant without government subsidies.Actually all power companies love government subsidies. Who doesn't like freebies? That's not the point. The point is what are the nuts and bolts of startup costs and the nuts & bolts of paying for the fuel day after day. When all other things are equal, I'll invest in the company that uses free fuel as often as it can.
If subsidies were removed from nuclear power, the industry would die overnight and never be revived. It has been on massive life support since day 1 and has never had a chance of standing on its own two feet.What type of solar power are you talking about ? PV panels or solar thermal steam? Please don't betray your own diversion by throwing such a broad blanket. Specify; because the two types couldn't be more different as to the parameters of this discussion.Nuclear power is a diversion.
Yes, all companies love subsidies, but the question here is why should solar power need them if it's economically viable on its own? The answer is that it's not. Solar wouldn't exist without government subsidies. Anyone who denies it is a liar or an idiot.
Those steam turbines don't care if the steam comes from focused sunlight heating oil to 300 degrees celsius, that boils the water via heat exchangers. They love their steam any way they can get it. In what way have you ever heard of PV panels heating oil to 300 degrees celsius?
Donald Trump Will Be the Only World Leader to Deny Climate Change Is Real
As future president, Donald Trump has promised to dismantle President Barack Obama’s progress toward improving the environment. He has supported the Keystone XL pipeline and removing regulations on the gas and oil industries. He wants to reduce the influence of the Environmental Protection Agency, which he called a “disgrace,” and scrap the Clean Power Plan, which would compel power plants to reduce their carbon emission. He wants to “cancel” the Paris climate change deal. And he also once claimed that global warming is a hoax “created by and for the Chinese.” Donald Trump Will Be the Only World Leader to Deny Climate Change Is Real
Well Mr. Trump. You's got some learnin' to do. Average-student business-major Donald Trump; who doesn't take regular security briefings from experts even, cuz, you know, he's smarter than they are on everything...has suddenly deemed himself smarter than world scientific consensus. He might as well declare that green is now purple. What will be next in his world of make-believe?
Even the chemical industry disagrees with you; and dozens of other professional organizations, including NASA. Who is smarter Trumpees? Your guru Donald Trump? Or almost all world scientists?:
American Chemical Society
"Comprehensive scientific assessments of our current and potential future climates clearly indicate that climate change is real, largely attributable to emissions from human activities, and potentially a very serious problem." (2004)4 http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
Discuss
The problem the Trumpettes have is this....
Donald Trump cites global warming as reason to build his Atlantic wall in Co Clare
When his hotel was a risk he was quick enough to say Global Warming was causing his Golf Course to erode....
Fully cited, no bullshit.... This just shows you his two face ways...
The problem the Trumpettes have is this....
Donald Trump cites global warming as reason to build his Atlantic wall in Co Clare
When his hotel was a risk he was quick enough to say Global Warming was causing his Golf Course to erode....
Fully cited, no bullshit.... This just shows you his two face ways...
You know that's interesting. Just last night on Fox News no less, I heard O'Reilly say that Global Warming is real. "just that we can't prove it's being done by humans". Baby steps. So that's the official new message from the right who knows they can no longer deny Climate Change. But I suggest that instead of doubting or being cautious that men are doing it, since NASA has already said for sure they have done the chemistry that shows hydrocarbons are flattening our thermosphere (& therefore it's keen ability to insulate us from heat in the Summer and cold in the Winters), we should err on the side of caution and curb men's use of hydrocarbons as much as possible. After all, it's only our PLANET at stake.
But it was very encouraging to see Bill O' openly admit to Climate Change...and openly scoff at those who claimed it "isn't happening". Progress!
One more time for Silly: you MUST keep the coal plant running all the time, EVEN IF THE SOLAR PLANT IS OPERATING AT FULL POWER. They take HOURS to ramp up (or power down)...some can take a full day!AGW is an gigantic con, and Jim Hansen who runs that NASA climate program is a proven liar. Including bogus costs from a bogus con isn't valid.
Furthermore, it isn't just a matter of the space they take up. A coal mine is just a big hole in the ground. A solar plant is hundreds of acres covered with delicate and expensive equipment. You already posted the cost of a ton of coal. The equivalent cost of sunshine gathered to heat steam is higher. You're also still ignoring the fact that you can only gather the sunshine for 1/4 of the year. Coal fired power plants produce energy for 95% of the years, and the down times can be scheduled.
OK, so you, who demonstrate here your proclivity for lying, are calling the NASA guy a "proven liar" (without links or substantiation of course). You want people to believe that if you build two plants next to one another, one coal 24/7, the other solar thermal with a coal backup, that the sun that shines upon the simple parabolic sheet metal that simply focuses concentrated sunshine on a tube is "expensive fuel" compared to the tons of coal needed each hour to run the pure coal plant. There is nothing delicate or expensive about pressed sheet metal as a reflector. So there you are lying again.
Jim Hansen you WANT to be a liar, because you're heavily invested in last century's dwindling carbon addiction. They have 12-step programs that might help you. Meanwhile, the rest of the world likes free fuel and is marching on without your kind.
Y'all like capitalism right? But what happens when a powerful company or collaboration of companies within a given gravy-train industry seek to monopolize free thinking, ideas and patents? Here's an example Mr. Trump. This is what your BigOil pals did to an electric car back in 2000 that was becoming a BIT too popular with customers & drivers who were using solar panels at home to juice them up.
BigOil's pals and deep DEEP bed-buddies in Detroit did a FORCED RECALL of the popular Chevy Volt. They took them to the desert and crushed the brand new cars flat... That's literally called "crushing the competition." The reason was they worked and they were too efficient.
They're doing a new version of that with compact diesel cars. The recent ban on VW diesel commuter cars is suspect IMHO. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that BigOil had a mole working for VW who on-purpose did an egregious nefarious act aimed at getting all compact super-efficient (60mpg or more) commuter cars banned from US markets so our Detroit BigOil bed buddies can push more SUV V-10 gas guzzling monstrosities on the public; leaving us NO OPTION to be better energy consumers.
Diesel engines have a different, more efficient way of creating more power per engine stroke. And, their fuel can be combined with natural sources grown from algae and farm wastes to create biodiesel. BigOil wasn't having ANY of that. And so, magically "viola!" VW cannot import these great cars anymore.
And you thought it was about corruption at VW. Silly public. So easy to fool. All these little industry machinations are contributing to our planet's climate issues. We can either face the malignant capitalism or collectively die as a planet in quiet ignorant loyalty to a couple of rich guys this generation.
Trump is a man who can do the math especially on cutting costs to improve profits. When a power company can boil water to run the same steam turbine...only not have to buy fuel for up to 8 hours a day (or more) 300 days a year, Trump will know which company to invest in and which not to.
The Chinese are beating our pants off at this free-fuel turbine source. Other countries are following close behind her. Will we be the 21st Century's equivalent of "energy Amish"? Or will we get with the times and become the leaders in this inevitable replacement to boil water?
What type of solar? You neglected to say whether you were talking about regular solar PV panels or what I've been talking about here: solar concentrated steam running turbines just like coal & nuclear do. Fancy water boilers. Mine doesn't use fuel. Their type of fuel is destroying the planet and its atmosphere.sure, solar works, we should be building solar and wind generators as well as hydro and nuclear. We need all sources of energy, including oil, gas, and coal.
It is the height of naivete to think that we can convert to renewables completely in the near future.
The war on fossil fuel is STUPID. That's the issue.
BTW, we should NEVER build another nuclear water boiler. The entire Pacific Ocean has been placed in jeopardy because of ONE nuclear plant's boiler system going down. As Japan sits on the world's 1/3rd largest geothermal steam reserve. GE sold them a raw bill of goods. The Japanese leaders who signed onto this technology, knowing it only boils water like all other steam turbine technology, while their ENTIRE NATION sat on top of water already boiling...they should do the honorable thing and take themselves off the planet.
Trump needs to educate himself on nuclear power too. So here's another part of the tutorial:
All they do is boil water. Like a super deadly tea kettle that can foul tens of thousands of square miles with ONE accident, for 200,000 years or more (time it takes for their waste to stop being one of the most deadly radioactive substances we know of).
Or, solar thermal or geothermal steam. Pick your kettle folks!
^^ oh! What's that?? Another STEAM TURBINE?? Boiled with the world's most deadliest substance? What BRAIN CHILD thought that one up? I'll tell you who: a person concerned that people would catch on how SIMPLE of a technology a steam turbine is: and how to make it seem "tricky and dangerous...needing special government clearance, personnel and permitting!" (Read: how to quell the competition)
Oh, and BTW...the same people on here warning readers of "dire expense of subsidized green energy!!!" are the same people who know and conceal that nuclear power is the biggest money pit of subsidized energy there is. We will be paying for this hapless industry and it's waste disposal? (we still don't know what to do with the metric tons that are stockpiled each year on site) FOREVER. 200,000 years. High Operating Costs Spell the End for Nuclear Power
You want to "Make America Great Again!"? replace her nuclear fleet with more profitable & sane type of tea kettles. And God only knows what you're going to do with those thousands of tons of nuclear waste that there literally is no place to put. Will we have a civilization that will last for 200,000 years to babysit that crap? What civilization has EVER lasted 200,000 years?
Our greed is our demise. Imagine hiding from the public all these years that all deadly nuclear plants do is boil water....& putting all their alternative good ideas and patents on ice to boil water other ways...just so you could maintain a tricky monopoly on creating steam...while tapping that same public for subsidies for your industry that never produced a dime of profit the entire time it was in operation. Talk about your corporate welfare; with an insidious 200,000 year twist..
(We'll make the same mistake with fracking too; where deadly solvents are being pumped deep into the earth where they can never be cleaned up; right next to our last underground fresh water reserves we need for drinking, showering & agriculture...all so some rich pricks can get a little richer before they have to switch over to green anyway when the source runs out)
Read up Mr. Trump. Read up and learn about the mess you've inherited. Maybe you can be the one to turn it all around. Unfreeze those patents Mr. Trump. Bring back TRUE capitalism in the FREE market innovations that could've made America great 50 years ago. Better late than never, right Donnie? You want to drain a swamp? There's the first swamp you should drain. And you'd better hurry because Morocco, Spain, France, the ME & CHI-NAH are all beating you to the punch.
One more time for Silly: you MUST keep the coal plant running all the time, EVEN IF THE SOLAR PLANT IS OPERATING AT FULL POWER. They take HOURS to ramp up (or power down)...some can take a full day!
Just to boil water Jake. When coal miners are out of work and the sun shines so reliably in the Southwest & Midwest day after endless day, sitting atop geothermal heat reserves that also boil water, why are we willing to subsidize a non-profitable industry as we go broke, whose waste is highly carcinogenic (the most dangerous substance known to man or at least in the top 10) for 200,000 year half-life radioactivity?
Why not use the type of radiation we've evolved to handle and simply shine it on a tube that heats oil to 300 degrees C? Combine that with coal for cloudy days & night. Keep people in work, reduce the carbon load in the thermosphere and not disfigure children with cancer who live near nuclear plants or the streams & rivers they always are built by (those reactors need their cooling waters dontcha know).
Free fuel right from the sky to boil water, instead of your insidious money-losing corporate-welfare boilers that kill with their waste. I think I'll take the sky-steam instead of yours.
BTW, what did you think of O'Reilly assenting that Climate Change is real and that it could be caused by man? Remember, Trump & he are practically brothers, besties. I thought that was a WOW moment! That's the last guardian of the bastion of deniers, falling. Now that we admit man may be detroying the earth with his carbon and other antics (Chernobyl, Fukushima) maybe we ought to boil water a different way eh?
Reduced carbon and ZERO nuclear plants.
Cue to 41:50- 42:30
One more time for Silly: you MUST keep the coal plant running all the time, EVEN IF THE SOLAR PLANT IS OPERATING AT FULL POWER. They take HOURS to ramp up (or power down)...some can take a full day!
That sucks. As I understand it, a solar thermal array when the sun hits it will heat the oil in the tube very rapidly. It's focused so it's like shooting a bunch of lasers right at the tube. Poor coal plants. They should join the 21st Century.
Just to boil water Jake. When coal miners are out of work and the sun shines so reliably in the Southwest & Midwest day after endless day, sitting atop geothermal heat reserves that also boil water, why are we willing to subsidize a non-profitable industry as we go broke, whose waste is highly carcinogenic (the most dangerous substance known to man or at least in the top 10) for 200,000 year half-life radioactivity?
Why not use the type of radiation we've evolved to handle and simply shine it on a tube that heats oil to 300 degrees C? Combine that with coal for cloudy days & night. Keep people in work, reduce the carbon load in the thermosphere and not disfigure children with cancer who live near nuclear plants or the streams & rivers they always are built by (those reactors need their cooling waters dontcha know).
Free fuel right from the sky to boil water, instead of your insidious money-losing corporate-welfare boilers that kill with their waste. I think I'll take the sky-steam instead of yours.
BTW, what did you think of O'Reilly assenting that Climate Change is real and that it could be caused by man? Remember, Trump & he are practically brothers, besties. I thought that was a WOW moment! That's the last guardian of the bastion of deniers, falling. Now that we admit man may be detroying the earth with his carbon and other antics (Chernobyl, Fukushima) maybe we ought to boil water a different way eh?
Reduced carbon and ZERO nuclear plants.
Cue to 41:50- 42:30
As I expected...you hear the word "nuclear" and immediately shit your pants.
Quite Simple
Climate Changes
the climate has been changing since the start of time
Climate Change is Cyclical
Man does not cause climate change.
