ACLU + Infowars expose torture in prison

[KnobbyWalsh]

Assuming you were on the floor how dis you internalize some of the things you saw? I would think being a normal citizen and then being subjected to that atmosphere would cause you some issues.

I don't know how to answer that, Pops. It's kind of a natural progression, I guess. I mean, I worked 10 years as an assistant director/teacher at a county juvenile lock up, worked about 9 years in a suspension-alternative school, so I guess I was "raised" career-wise for the logical move to adult prison to work. I can't say it has NOT changed me, but I'm pretty lucky I don't have the toxic attitude of many of my co-workers. Matter of fact, funny but true, one of my students asked me that very same thing last week. I've ALWAYS had a foul mouth, something I'm not proud of, and working in a prison sure hasn't helped that! I guess it IS amazing how some people are impacted to varying degrees - some commit suicide, turn to booze and drugs or whatever. I guess I just swear like a motherfucker! haha I mean, the ONLY time I have EVER brought work home with me in all these years is when a co-worker has fucked with me.

I think growing up "on the wrong side of the tracks" and having friends who were in biker gangs and in various levels of "trouble" helps me and helped me relate to the kids/adults better. Those guys in my class cannot believe I wasn't born with a silver spoon up my ass. Obviously, many of them have had it a lot rougher than I could imagine, but I come from absolutely zero like most people do.

I guess I'm really lucky in that respect.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Well I had no choice really. Honestly I don't see how anyone could work there. It's the most depressing environment I can think of.

I think by then I was somewhat institutionalized since my entire youth was spent in similar places. As a typical con I found god and some purpose. I have since thought better of the whole god thing but sometimes thwre just isn't anything else to cling to and losing your sanity isn't an option.


I still can't grasp the torture part though. I just dont see how it could be any worse than what I endured without actual physical torture being involved. Don't want to gotothe hole dont be a heinous criminal. Pretty simple really

I'm on your side on that one School. I mean, people who don't know shit from shinola think inmates have it soft. They don't. But torture? I've yet to hear of it first-hand.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So first they take this veteran and put him in solitary confinement:

Stop Solitary - Mental Health Resources | American Civil Liberties Union

Then, as expected, when someone tries to commit suicide in solitary confinement, they torture him:

» 1984?s Room 101: ?VIDEO from US prison shows inmate held down, pepper sprayed at close range? Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


Don't think this is an isolated incident, I'm discovering that many young men, mostly in prison for victimless crimes (drug possession) are tortured routinely and converted into REAL criminals once they are released.

God bless Admiralty Jurisdiction!

As one who works in one every day, I don't buy it. I mean sure it happens, and you bet your right when you say victimless criminals get locked up and come out the worse for it. But torture on a grand scale? All I know is that where I work, if any of us use excessive force, we're finished and pretty much fired on the spot. Our state doesn't want law suits.

Yep. I worked PD for 8 years, and brutality in the jail and on the street is so rare and isolated. But, the media hypes it and convinces everyone that it happens daily in every city. And cop or jail officer who commits brutality is almost guaranteed to be fired and likely prosecuted. Especially in modern times, past 20 years, etc.

But of course, someone will find a story that "proves" the torture is daily or that corrupt officers dont get prosecuted.

If people compared the cops and jails in America to those in the rest of the world, they'd wonder why we're so SOFT.

You keep saying that, but there is zero evidence to back you up. Is it intentional blindness, confirmation bias, or simply outright lying?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I just don't think it's that bad outside of possible isolated incidents. I knew LOTS of people that spent endless hours in the law library working on endless schemes and lawsuits.

There are prisons where every single inmate is in isolation for his entire sentence. The government gets away with this by citing security issues.

I can only speak for Ohio where our prison population is getting younger and more gang affiliated. When I started there wasn't many problems because the older guys "took care of business" in the pods. We now have a bunch of lock down pods because of these young wanna bes think they're the shit and only attack when the numbers are greatly in their favor. Their number one goal is to disrupt anything and everything and our joint got a lot more violent when they brought those young assholes in. They cause a huge security issue and have ruined it for everyone.

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I assume youre referring to the new super max prisons. I dunno quantum. When people act like viscous animals they have to be restrained accordingly to protecteveryone involved. There were some mean motherfuckers in the prison I was in that were always in the hole. Within one or two days of being released they would be right back after attacking guards or other inmates.

The state I was in before you started your time you went to a full lockdown facility for 30 days to be evaluated. Then your destination was chosen. I went to maximum security at Hutchinson which had one cell block out of the 4 main ones that was nothing but solitary.

Those supermax prisons are not the first stop for those in them. Most of them end up there because of what they did in traditional prisons. Sorry friend but I have no sympathy for those there.

Except that Supermax prisons aren't always based on what a person does, especially at the federal level. And, once you get into Supermax, it is almost impossible to get out because it is not a behavior issue anymore. That means that, even if a prisoner decides to behave, which is possible, they are still in lockdown.

To the best of my knowledge no prison in Texas has central air. In fact, a lot of them don't even have real heating. They measure the temperature by sticking the thermometer in the heater vent outside the cell. I have actually seen snow accumulate on the floor because the windows were broken.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I can only speak for Ohio where our prison population is getting younger and more gang affiliated. When I started there wasn't many problems because the older guys "took care of business" in the pods. We now have a bunch of lock down pods because of these young wanna bes think they're the shit and only attack when the numbers are greatly in their favor. Their number one goal is to disrupt anything and everything and our joint got a lot more violent when they brought those young assholes in. They cause a huge security issue and have ruined it for everyone.

Why don't you just end this fictitious war on drugs? Start with jury nullification.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well I had no choice really. Honestly I don't see how anyone could work there. It's the most depressing environment I can think of.

I think by then I was somewhat institutionalized since my entire youth was spent in similar places. As a typical con I found god and some purpose. I have since thought better of the whole god thing but sometimes thwre just isn't anything else to cling to and losing your sanity isn't an option.


I still can't grasp the torture part though. I just dont see how it could be any worse than what I endured without actual physical torture being involved. Don't want to gotothe hole dont be a heinous criminal. Pretty simple really

I'm on your side on that one School. I mean, people who don't know shit from shinola think inmates have it soft. They don't. But torture? I've yet to hear of it first-hand.

Actual physical torture is rare in prisons, I think it is more common in county facilities.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

There are prisons where every single inmate is in isolation for his entire sentence. The government gets away with this by citing security issues.

I can only speak for Ohio where our prison population is getting younger and more gang affiliated. When I started there wasn't many problems because the older guys "took care of business" in the pods. We now have a bunch of lock down pods because of these young wanna bes think they're the shit and only attack when the numbers are greatly in their favor. Their number one goal is to disrupt anything and everything and our joint got a lot more violent when they brought those young assholes in. They cause a huge security issue and have ruined it for everyone.

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

 

[bucs90]

I can only speak for Ohio where our prison population is getting younger and more gang affiliated. When I started there wasn't many problems because the older guys "took care of business" in the pods. We now have a bunch of lock down pods because of these young wanna bes think they're the shit and only attack when the numbers are greatly in their favor. Their number one goal is to disrupt anything and everything and our joint got a lot more violent when they brought those young assholes in. They cause a huge security issue and have ruined it for everyone.

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

Wow. Didnt know you did time in prison. I'd like to ask we put our differences aside, just for one thread even, and discuss something.

You dont seem overly bitter towards the prison system, despite spending time in it. Many cops think prisons have become too soft. You described yours as pretty hard. But today's have central air, internet, gyms, edible food, cable TV, sports leagues sometimes. Many cops think prison is supposed to suck. Its supposed to suck bad. Thats the deterrence. But, many life long criminals no longer fear prison. In fact, some even say that prison life is better than their home life- they actually get food, TV, air, a bed, and some sense of safety.

I only see/saw it from one side. You saw it from another side. Im interested in your opinion on that. Is prison too soft today? Should it be softened even more?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

Wow. Didnt know you did time in prison. I'd like to ask we put our differences aside, just for one thread even, and discuss something.

You dont seem overly bitter towards the prison system, despite spending time in it. Many cops think prisons have become too soft. You described yours as pretty hard. But today's have central air, internet, gyms, edible food, cable TV, sports leagues sometimes. Many cops think prison is supposed to suck. Its supposed to suck bad. Thats the deterrence. But, many life long criminals no longer fear prison. In fact, some even say that prison life is better than their home life- they actually get food, TV, air, a bed, and some sense of safety.

I only see/saw it from one side. You saw it from another side. Im interested in your opinion on that. Is prison too soft today? Should it be softened even more?

That depends on the institution and the inmate. Your time can be as hard as you choose to make it. I didn't have any of the luxuries you described. I was in a cell built for one with one other person. We were allowed a TV (no cable) and a radio on headphones only. Recreation 3 times a week for one hour which consisted of walking around a huge empty yard inside the walls. There were some weights but not near enough for everyone. Each inmate was required to do some type of work for up to .85 cents per day. I had to build out buildings that were sold to the public.

Time back then (imo) was much harder than prisoners have it today with the difference being our forced labor kept us occupied to the point that causing trouble was not an option if you wanted time out of your cell. The hole sucked beyond belief because of the sheer boredom. The first 48 hours of any visit there consisted of you in your boxers and a concrete bed with a toilet you were not allowed to flush till guards checked it for contraband. After 48 hours if you had good behavior you got some clothes a mat for the bed and toilet flushing priveledges.

Todays prisions have too much comfort to be a deterent. Thing is you have to strike a balance between punishment and activities otherwise you run the risk of having violent outbreaks from the boredom. Many people I met dreaded getting out because they didnt know anything different. Institutionalized as a condition is very hard to come back from.

The supermax prisons wouldn't be so much hard as they would be a sea of insanity from the boredom.

There are things to learn from a prison stint if you're willing to evaluate your life and admit your problems to yourself. I got a highschool education, some college courses and a certification in general construction and contracting.

If not for prison I would likely be dead or loxked up for life.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I can only speak for Ohio where our prison population is getting younger and more gang affiliated. When I started there wasn't many problems because the older guys "took care of business" in the pods. We now have a bunch of lock down pods because of these young wanna bes think they're the shit and only attack when the numbers are greatly in their favor. Their number one goal is to disrupt anything and everything and our joint got a lot more violent when they brought those young assholes in. They cause a huge security issue and have ruined it for everyone.

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

Just because the answer is not easy does not mean we should pretend the problem does not exist. Throwing people into solitary for years and then dumping them back on the street is not going to help anyone, including the public.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

Just because the answer is not easy does not mean we should pretend the problem does not exist. Throwing people into solitary for years and then dumping them back on the street is not going to help anyone, including the public.

While I agree with your premise there just isn't any alternative. Some people will never change and are not capable of being reformed. I know, I had many for friends. They have no personal values much less any regard for others lives or well being.

Richard Butt came to my cellblock around my 2nd or 3rd month in. Within a week he lost it for no apparent reason and cut 9 people in the chow hall before he was subdued. To my knowledge he never got out of the hole and that was a good thing.

Maybe you just don't realize how evil some people can be.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

Just because the answer is not easy does not mean we should pretend the problem does not exist. Throwing people into solitary for years and then dumping them back on the street is not going to help anyone, including the public.

While I agree with your premise there just isn't any alternative. Some people will never change and are not capable of being reformed. I know, I had many for friends. They have no personal values much less any regard for others lives or well being.

Richard Butt came to my cellblock around my 2nd or 3rd month in. Within a week he lost it for no apparent reason and cut 9 people in the chow hall before he was subdued. To my knowledge he never got out of the hole and that was a good thing.

Maybe you just don't realize how evil some people can be.

If they can't change we should kill them.

My problem is not how the government deals with the incorrigible, it is that they label everyone incorrigible. It is a lot easier to give up on people than deal with them as individuals.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Which is exactly my point, the government gets away with it by using security as a catchall.

What exactly are you suggesting be done then? Some inmates are simply too dangerous to be allowed into a general pop prison.

Im not understanding the problem.

Wow. Didnt know you did time in prison. I'd like to ask we put our differences aside, just for one thread even, and discuss something.

You dont seem overly bitter towards the prison system, despite spending time in it. Many cops think prisons have become too soft. You described yours as pretty hard. But today's have central air, internet, gyms, edible food, cable TV, sports leagues sometimes. Many cops think prison is supposed to suck. Its supposed to suck bad. Thats the deterrence. But, many life long criminals no longer fear prison. In fact, some even say that prison life is better than their home life- they actually get food, TV, air, a bed, and some sense of safety.

I only see/saw it from one side. You saw it from another side. Im interested in your opinion on that. Is prison too soft today? Should it be softened even more?

As one who is currently IN the system working and having been in many in Ohio (aside from the one I work in), I honestly don't know where that "soft time in prison" myth started. The facilities have been more recently built and prisons like you see in "Shawshank Redemption" (WERE used up until the 1990's) are on the "outs." I guess the best way to "know" what it's like, or get a taste of it, is lock yourself in your bathroom for a weekend - no cell phone, computer, papers, maybe VERY basic cable TV if you have one, oh, and with another person NOT of your own choosing. Me, I'd be climbing the fuckin' walls after the first hour.

Sure, some guys don't mind "laying down" once in awhile because as they've told me, that's the risk for the games they run out on the streets. Some guys told me they never had it so good because of the shitholes they grew up in. But the average inmates hate it, flat out. I've been in every pod in our prison and even many of the admin buildings don't have AC and the heating systems suck. I've eaten the food - Jesus! You can't call that shit food!

In the end, what the media says is false as fuck. It's prison! Just the very fact that you're cut off from the world - and all those you love in it - fucks with most of those guys minds. NO, I'm not looking for sympathy for them - most of them deserve to be there. But Pops is right - most people have no clue. Shit, I'm in one every day and have no clue what it's like to be stepping off time.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYusLT9ffT0]Scared Straight 1999 (part 1) - YouTube[/ame]