Acting US Navy secretary resigns

[rightwinger]

This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.

To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.

To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.

The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.

So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.

The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?

Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.

When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.

Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.

So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.

Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.

Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.

To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.

On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.

Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.

I suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.

To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.

Crozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of command

The Navy was acting irresponsibly during an immediate crisis. Working up through the chain of command would have resulted in extensive delays
Crozier shotgunned his plea to everyone who could make a difference.

Cost him his career

The Navy was carrying out its mission

when they had a ship to take the Roosevelts place it would have been relieved

But that decision belongs to the the Navy not Crozier

Readiness is absolutely the call of the on scene commander. If he feels his unit is not combat ready he absolutely has the responsibility to inform his superiors. What service were you in? What was your specialty?

Crozier informed the whole world as well as his superiors

or he didnt like the orders he was given and went outside his chain of command

either or both are unforgivable breaches of judgement

There is no indication that Crozier went outside the chain of command or released anything to the media.

His command made an unforgivable breach of judgement in failing to conduct an investigation before acting.

 

[g5000]

Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns

The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.

www.bbc.co.uk

The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.

Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.

Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".

Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?

I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.

A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.

Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?

It's been reported he sent "letters" out to 20-30 people.
I can't imagine a commander 'purposely' leaking information like this to the media, however, he should have known that with the # of contacts that he initiated, the information would find it's way to a very aggressive media.

In other words, you made shit up.

And he sent an email, not letters.

As for "purposely leaking", you mean like Moldy Dick broadcasting a message to 5000 sailors with smart phones over a public address system?

 

[rightwinger]

Not a good week for the Navy.

In the midst of a global epidemic, they engage in petty retribution against a commander making a request to protect his crew.

 

[SavannahMann]

But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations.

You had an excellent post and I agree with most of your outstanding analysis.

However, I am not sure Crozier will ever be considered a hero. He let a very sensitive memo leak to the sensational news media. That caused tremendous problems for the Navy and for the government.

He didn't do it on purpose and he had his heart in the right place but he harmed the security of the US and he certainly upset the families of the sailors aboard the ship. Doing something like that is one of these "no excuse" things that all Navy Captains are held accountable for.

Then there was the issue of allowing shore leave in Vietnam. First of all as a Vietnam veteran I am wondering why in the hell are we even allowing the military to visit Vietnam? However, putting that issue aside he did it when the Pandemic was underway. That by itself was a serious lack of judgement.

As a Veteran, your feelings towards other nations may run high. My Father in Law was a Marine in the Pacific during World War II. He hated the Japanese for decades after the war. I honestly don’t think he ever got over it, and would never himself buy a Japanese car. So your feelings are not only understandable, but common.

Now during this time, we took a former enemy, and made them a vital trading partner. We did the same with Italy, and Germany despite the feelings of the Veterans who almost certainly felt as strongly about the issue as you do.

There is one nation we have been at war with that we haven’t managed this, and that is North Korea. We have had tourism and trade with Vietnam for quite a while. As one example, take Binoculars and other magnifying optics. Even when we were not directly trading with Vietnam, we were indirectly trading with them. For some reason, Vietnam has some of the finest Sand in the world. That sand makes Optical lenses with the lowest distortion, and we were buying those lenses when we bought German Binoculars and other items. That is of course, but one example.

I had a cousin, older than myself, who went to Vietnam. I was taught by Soldiers when I was young, who were Vietnam vets. They thought me lessons that were invaluable. Lessons not contained in books, and were passed down one to another. My Cousin died from Cancer, Agent Orange.

We have had tourism to Vietnam for a while as well. The War that you fought in, and so many died and so many more suffered is over. We are not known, historically, for holding grudges indefinitely. We fought the English, and later helped them during the Boer War and of course both World Wars. We fought the Germans during two wars. But for Vietnam, perhaps you didn’t see where the Son of a Fighter Pilot went to Vietnam, and flew his Father home in his Southwest airplane. Airline pilot flies dad's remains home from Vietnam 52 years after seeing him off at same Dallas airport

We aren’t good friends with Vietnam, but we are reasonably friendly all things considered. Those who made the decisions in that war, are pretty much dead on both sides.

I am sure that strong feelings still exist in the families of some Vietnamese people, and some Veterans like yourself.

Now, onto the question of Shore Leave. The Captain doesn’t pull over and say everyone we have three days here, so enjoy yourself. Those Port Calls are negotiated in advance, and often years in advance, by the Navy, the State Department, and probably a dozen other Agencies. It may be the only Port Call that a specific city or country gets for a year or more from the Navy. So these calls are goodwill port calls, and often important to the relations between the two countries. I read a Wall Street Journal piece where the Navy and Vietnam both insisted the Port Call go forward. Despite the risk.

The Navy ORDERED Crozier to do the Port Call Regardless of the Risk. Crozier was promised that the NAVY would insure that anyone who got sick was cared for, and they would provide sufficient testing and all that to mitigate the risk. They did not follow through on the promise. Crozier was ORDERED to carry out the Port Call. ORDERED by the same Chain of Command that was furious he put the concerns and requests in writing.

US aircraft carrier should never have been sent to Vietnam - Asia Times

The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt, accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill, arrived in Da Nang, Vietnam on March 4 for a

asiatimes.com

The Chain of Command made the decision. The Chain of Command left the on scene commander flapping in the wind. The Chain of Command was embarrassed when Crozier sent out the memo to many people, knowing that it was almost certain one of those recipients would leak it. The Chain of Command blamed the Captain for their own failures and their own poor decisions.

The Crew thinks Crozier is the sacrificial lamb being thrown to the wolves to protect the bosses. Moral in the Navy has to be heading for the Challenger Deep in the Mariannas Trench. Risking the ship for political objectives? Sure. No problem. It’s not like I am aboard. Hanging the sailors out to dry? Absolutely we have to keep this quiet, we don’t want to answer any embarrassing questions. When the questions started, they threw Crozier to the wolves. Moldy was instrumental in all of this, and deserves a lot of the blame.

 

[SavannahMann]

no sailors on the USS Roosevelt died from the chinese disease

nor is it likely more would have died at sea than on land

It is almost certain that far more would have gotten sick. It is therefore more likely that more would die, since Sailors like everyone else have other medical considerations. The Captain got it, and we don’t know how severe a case it might be yet, but we know that the Captain wasn’t down in the Sickbay tending to the ill.

So are we going to cancel national defense along with the economy?

very few young military with no underlying conditions will die from the chinese disease anywhere in the world

and the mission must continue

What Mission? Everyone is focused inwards. Iran is busy denying that their population has it. China is trying to get trade going again. What war mission are you talking about? And while your fevered imagination is running smoke troops will have their moral head into the deep negative category.

Its not Croziers call about what his mission should be

No, but it is his responsibility to report truthfully on the condition of his ship, and the condition of his crew, and their ability to answer orders and carry out the missions. The bigger question is why the Navy ordered Crozier to carry out the Port Call in Vietnam? Why did they not prepare for the infection to come aboard as everyone expected it to?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns

The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.

www.bbc.co.uk

The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.

Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.

Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".

Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?

I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.

As with all organizations, you take your cues from your leaders. For better and worse. When you have the blob telling lies, calling people names, etc... it's only a matter of time until you copy the actions of your boss.

calling people names, etc.
you mean like the way you do?....

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns

The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.

www.bbc.co.uk

The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.

Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.

Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".

Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?

I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.

A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.

Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?

It's been reported he sent "letters" out to 20-30 people.
I can't imagine a commander 'purposely' leaking information like this to the media, however, he should have known that with the # of contacts that he initiated, the information would find it's way to a very aggressive media.

In other words, you made shit up.

And he sent an email, not letters.

As for "purposely leaking", you mean like Moldy Dick broadcasting a message to 5000 sailors with smart phones over a public address system?

No asshole, I didn't make anything up !
Did you actually believe I meant hand written letters put in an envelope, licked a stamp, and sent out by the local Guam post office ?

There is story after story where they use the term "letters".

 

[SavannahMann]

Those of you who think that the Sailors don‘t consider Crozier a Hero.

USS Roosevelt sailors say their ousted captain deserved a promotion

Captain Brett Crozier was relieved of his command of the USS Roosevelt on Thursday, two days after his letter calling to evacuate the aircraft carrier was leaked in the media.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I was an Enlisted man. I was a Sergeant. I know how the troops think, and what they will think, because in my heart despite years having passed by, I am still one of the rank and file.

It is a curious fact. When the troops get a real hard assed Sergeant Major, who leads by example, and is consistent in demanding the very best from, and for, the troops. They love him. Because they know he’s tough, and they know he’s fair. The same is true of the Command Master Chief in the Navy, and other branches. Tough NCO’s who demand the best, and make sure the troops are taken care of are loved and respected. The same is true of Officers. Martinets are not loved, nor respected. Neither are liars, or Slackers. The Chain of Command had the Port Call in Vietnam go on despite the threat. They promised the Captain, and the Sailors, that the Navy would provide everything needed to treat the disease if it got aboard in Vietnam.

When it was aboard, the Navy shrugged and said we’ll get back to you. Crozier sent the letter basically pleading with the Chain of Command to do what they had promised. They put the troops in harms way, and now they had to follow through on the promise, to take care of the men and women serving and doing their jobs. The Chain of Command fired the man who dared to embarrass them for NOT DOING THEIR JOBS.

The Sailors know who lived up to their responsibility and it wasn’t the Admirals and Political Appointees. It was the Captain, and they would love to have an Officer like that in charge of anything. Because that Officer will expect the very best from them, and provide the very best to them when they are doing the jobs.

A powerful and excellent Military is more than laser guided smart bombs. It is the moral of the troops who do the work day in and out. Right now, that Moral is heavily in the negative category, not just on the Roosevelt, but in all the ships. The Sailors know, if something goes bad, they’re on their own. The Chain of Command will blame anyone they can get away with to protect their own asses.

 

[rightwinger]

Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns

The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.

www.bbc.co.uk

The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.

Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.

Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".

Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?

I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.

A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.

Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?

It's been reported he sent "letters" out to 20-30 people.
I can't imagine a commander 'purposely' leaking information like this to the media, however, he should have known that with the # of contacts that he initiated, the information would find it's way to a very aggressive media.

In other words, you made shit up.

And he sent an email, not letters.

As for "purposely leaking", you mean like Moldy Dick broadcasting a message to 5000 sailors with smart phones over a public address system?

No asshole, I didn't make anything up !
Did you actually believe I meant hand written letters put in an envelope, licked a stamp, and sent out by the local Guam post office ?

There is story after story where they use the term "letters".

It is harder to bury a complaint when it goes to many people

 

[Flash]

But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations.

You had an excellent post and I agree with most of your outstanding analysis.

However, I am not sure Crozier will ever be considered a hero. He let a very sensitive memo leak to the sensational news media. That caused tremendous problems for the Navy and for the government.

He didn't do it on purpose and he had his heart in the right place but he harmed the security of the US and he certainly upset the families of the sailors aboard the ship. Doing something like that is one of these "no excuse" things that all Navy Captains are held accountable for.

Then there was the issue of allowing shore leave in Vietnam. First of all as a Vietnam veteran I am wondering why in the hell are we even allowing the military to visit Vietnam? However, putting that issue aside he did it when the Pandemic was underway. That by itself was a serious lack of judgement.

As a Veteran, your feelings towards other nations may run high. My Father in Law was a Marine in the Pacific during World War II. He hated the Japanese for decades after the war. I honestly don’t think he ever got over it, and would never himself buy a Japanese car. So your feelings are not only understandable, but common.

Now during this time, we took a former enemy, and made them a vital trading partner. We did the same with Italy, and Germany despite the feelings of the Veterans who almost certainly felt as strongly about the issue as you do.

There is one nation we have been at war with that we haven’t managed this, and that is North Korea. We have had tourism and trade with Vietnam for quite a while. As one example, take Binoculars and other magnifying optics. Even when we were not directly trading with Vietnam, we were indirectly trading with them. For some reason, Vietnam has some of the finest Sand in the world. That sand makes Optical lenses with the lowest distortion, and we were buying those lenses when we bought German Binoculars and other items. That is of course, but one example.

I had a cousin, older than myself, who went to Vietnam. I was taught by Soldiers when I was young, who were Vietnam vets. They thought me lessons that were invaluable. Lessons not contained in books, and were passed down one to another. My Cousin died from Cancer, Agent Orange.

We have had tourism to Vietnam for a while as well. The War that you fought in, and so many died and so many more suffered is over. We are not known, historically, for holding grudges indefinitely. We fought the English, and later helped them during the Boer War and of course both World Wars. We fought the Germans during two wars. But for Vietnam, perhaps you didn’t see where the Son of a Fighter Pilot went to Vietnam, and flew his Father home in his Southwest airplane. Airline pilot flies dad's remains home from Vietnam 52 years after seeing him off at same Dallas airport

We aren’t good friends with Vietnam, but we are reasonably friendly all things considered. Those who made the decisions in that war, are pretty much dead on both sides.

I am sure that strong feelings still exist in the families of some Vietnamese people, and some Veterans like yourself.

Now, onto the question of Shore Leave. The Captain doesn’t pull over and say everyone we have three days here, so enjoy yourself. Those Port Calls are negotiated in advance, and often years in advance, by the Navy, the State Department, and probably a dozen other Agencies. It may be the only Port Call that a specific city or country gets for a year or more from the Navy. So these calls are goodwill port calls, and often important to the relations between the two countries. I read a Wall Street Journal piece where the Navy and Vietnam both insisted the Port Call go forward. Despite the risk.

The Navy ORDERED Crozier to do the Port Call Regardless of the Risk. Crozier was promised that the NAVY would insure that anyone who got sick was cared for, and they would provide sufficient testing and all that to mitigate the risk. They did not follow through on the promise. Crozier was ORDERED to carry out the Port Call. ORDERED by the same Chain of Command that was furious he put the concerns and requests in writing.

US aircraft carrier should never have been sent to Vietnam - Asia Times

The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt, accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill, arrived in Da Nang, Vietnam on March 4 for a

asiatimes.com

The Chain of Command made the decision. The Chain of Command left the on scene commander flapping in the wind. The Chain of Command was embarrassed when Crozier sent out the memo to many people, knowing that it was almost certain one of those recipients would leak it. The Chain of Command blamed the Captain for their own failures and their own poor decisions.

The Crew thinks Crozier is the sacrificial lamb being thrown to the wolves to protect the bosses. Moral in the Navy has to be heading for the Challenger Deep in the Mariannas Trench. Risking the ship for political objectives? Sure. No problem. It’s not like I am aboard. Hanging the sailors out to dry? Absolutely we have to keep this quiet, we don’t want to answer any embarrassing questions. When the questions started, they threw Crozier to the wolves. Moldy was instrumental in all of this, and deserves a lot of the blame.

I never served in the Navy. I served in the Army. However, my understanding of the Navy is that Ship's Captain is one of those jobs that carries the ultimate responsibility for everything, good or bad.

If a Butterface Navy Ensign takes a dump and clogs up the toilet on a ship it is the Captain's fault. If the Mess Chief is found butt fucking a Yeoman's Mate it is the Captain's fault.

I think the Captain always has discretion in allowing shore leave and just because it may have been approved ahead of time doesn't relive him of the responsibility that his crew evidentially got infected.

He obviously had no intention of allowing that memo to get into the hands of the sensationalism news media but it did so therefore he is responsible.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns

The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.

www.bbc.co.uk

The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.

Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.

Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".

Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?

I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.

A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.

Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?

It's been reported he sent "letters" out to 20-30 people.
I can't imagine a commander 'purposely' leaking information like this to the media, however, he should have known that with the # of contacts that he initiated, the information would find it's way to a very aggressive media.

In other words, you made shit up.

And he sent an email, not letters.

As for "purposely leaking", you mean like Moldy Dick broadcasting a message to 5000 sailors with smart phones over a public address system?

No asshole, I didn't make anything up !
Did you actually believe I meant hand written letters put in an envelope, licked a stamp, and sent out by the local Guam post office ?

There is story after story where they use the term "letters".

It is harder to bury a complaint when it goes to many people

Well no shit, and that's why I say he should have known when you contact 20-30 people, the info is bound to find it's way to the media.

 

[rightwinger]

Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns

The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.

www.bbc.co.uk

The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.

Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.

Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".

Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?

I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.

A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.

Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?

It's been reported he sent "letters" out to 20-30 people.
I can't imagine a commander 'purposely' leaking information like this to the media, however, he should have known that with the # of contacts that he initiated, the information would find it's way to a very aggressive media.

In other words, you made shit up.

And he sent an email, not letters.

As for "purposely leaking", you mean like Moldy Dick broadcasting a message to 5000 sailors with smart phones over a public address system?

No asshole, I didn't make anything up !
Did you actually believe I meant hand written letters put in an envelope, licked a stamp, and sent out by the local Guam post office ?

There is story after story where they use the term "letters".

It is harder to bury a complaint when it goes to many people

Well no shit, and that's why I say he should have known when you contact 20-30 people, the info is bound to find it's way to the media.

Need to know

If he believed those people had a need to know what was going on in his ship, he has a right to inform them.

He is not responsible for what they do with his letter/

 

[rightwinger]

In his letter, Capt Crozier was professional, respectful and accurate in describing his situation

At no point did he call his superiors “stupid and naive”

 

[rightwinger]

The irony of Moldy not having faith in the judgement of Cpt Crozier

 

[Mac-7]

No, but it is his responsibility to report truthfully on the condition of his ship, and the condition of his crew, and their ability to answer orders and carry out the missions.

Sure

But report it directly to the next higher up in his chain of command

Not broadcast his complaints to the whole world

 

[Mac-7]

In his letter, Capt Crozier was professional, respectful and accurate in describing his situation

At no point did he call his superiors “stupid and naive”

See post #55

 

[rightwinger]

In his letter, Capt Crozier was professional, respectful and accurate in describing his situation

At no point did he call his superiors “stupid and naive”

See post #55

That is what he was afraid of
The bureaucracy of running it up the chain of command while an epidemic was sweeping his ship. He needed immediate action and could not risk his crew by going “by the book”

 

[SavannahMann]

No, but it is his responsibility to report truthfully on the condition of his ship, and the condition of his crew, and their ability to answer orders and carry out the missions.

Sure

But report it directly to the next higher up in his chain of command

Not broadcast his complaints to the whole world

And here is where your ignorance of the Military shows. There are regulations upon regulations. Let’s say one of the 150+ sick crewmembers was a Enlisted man who updated the computers on the airplanes. Now, I don’t know if you are aware of how Aviation Materials are handled, but let me explain for those who don’t. You do not sign off on your own work. It requires another mechanic to approve your work as completed. One who has the same qualifications.

So onto this scenario. Aviations Mate Jones is the only Computer Technician on the ship. Not surprising since it is a special duty and not much goes wrong with the airplane computers. But there is a Petty Officer who is also qualified who checks the work of Aviation Mate Jones. Now, Jones is sick with this bug. He can’t go and work on the planes. Petty Officer Smith can’t do the work and confirm it done too. So now any computer failures mean the aircraft is grounded until either Jones recovers, or Fleet sends another man out.

So the Captain, following Regulations, would have to notify fleet, Personnel Command, Flight Safety Command, and Medical Command. He can’t just call one person and say Jones is sick and we have no one to fix the computers. He has to tell everyone. When a plane goes down from a computer fault, he then has to include Flight Maintenance Command That the aircraft is down, and can’t be brought up until they get another technician.

If Jones was one of the people working the Reactor, of which the ship has two, The Captain must notify Medical, Personnel, Fleet, and Nuclear Safety.

You never just report to one person, you have multiple interlocking commands that all oversee something. If Jones was the Chaplain’s Assistant, then the office that oversees Chaplains must be notified in addition to Fleet, Personnel, Medical, and probably a half dozen others.

If you never read the book Pentagon Wars, you might be getting an idea what is going on. When Lieutenant Colonel Burton finds faults with the Brantley Infantry Fighting Vehicle. He writes his report and submits it to his superior. His Superiors edit his report. Burton, following Regulations, wrote a memo outlining all the changes to his report, and included a copy of his original report, and submitted it to over three hundred offices in the Pentagon. All within Regulations. If a report is edited substantially, then a memo must be written to all offices with any participation in, and oversight of, the program.

Of course, it took about fifteen minutes for the rebuttal and the report to get passed to the Reporters. Burton did not, but knew that someone would. He followed Regulations to the letter.

Sending the memo to thirty recipients was probably all the offices which had oversight of some portion of the Ship affected by the virus. Each Office must get reports in a timely fashion, and must be advised of any deviation from regulations or threats to the systems in which they have oversight.

There is never just one guy you report to. I mentioned in another report how I as an Air Traffic Controller spent a lot of time reporting to people. I had my Platoon Leader, a Lieutenant. I had my Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant, Company Commander. But I also had to report to Fort Rucker for the program command. All ATC command and standards are overseen by Fort Rucker. My Reports had to be copied to the Battalion Commander’s office, at another Fort Entirely. As well as the Brigade Commander of the Aviation Brigade on the post I was assigned to. And that was just reports on the standardization and training of soldiers assigned to me. When we deployed for training or assignments, like supporting the Haiti Invasion under President Clinton, I had to insure my reports were forwarded to the Corps Command, and Forces Command. Dozens of people got reports on what one Sergeant and four other soldiers were doing.

If a Soldier got sick, he was grounded by the Flight Surgeon, and not authorized to control aircraft. This grounding was a serious matter, and guess who had to be advised on the daily reports? That’s right, everyone and their cousin. For one soldier getting sick a dozen different offices were advised. Before the Soldier went back to work controlling aircraft, the Doctor’s had to confirm he was healthy enough for “Flight status” and fill out a report. That report had half a dozen pages which were color coded depending on where they were sent. Everyone from Fort Rucker to the Pentagon were told that Private Gillian was now healthy enough to conduct normal operations.

Add in the complexities of the ship and the crew and I can only imagine that the largest portion of the crew is people who spend all day long typing reports that get sent off to every corner of the Military.

The Captain did the right thing. He put his concerns in writing, and insured that every single office that had any oversight of any portion of his ship was advised that due to this illness, their areas of oversight most probably would suffer a degradation of capability and perhaps even a failure to meet the standards. If for example several Reactor Technicians got sick, they would not be allowed into the Reactor Room, and that means the crew would either work short handed in overseeing the Nuclear Tea Kettles, or they would work longer than normal Shifts, and that would be a problem which the Nuclear Safety Office would need to know about. Nuclear Safety is so important to the Navy that failing an inspection would result in the ship being declared unfit for service. Careers would end, and possible criminal charges would result.

I have seen these kinds of interdepartmental nonsense play out. I was at a graded training exercise when Iraq invaded Kuwait with a Brigade of the 82nd Airborne. The Brigade Commander wanted to finish the training, the Division Commander overruled him, and the Deputy Commander of the Corps overruled him. Up the chain it went, Training and Doctrine Command which had ordered the rotation in the training claimed they had authority since the unit was in “training”. Forces Command claimed that TRADOC lost command when the invasion happened. Back and forth it went as each level of the chain of command put their two cents in. According to lore and legend, the Chief of Staff of the Army finally ordered the Battalion to redeploy to Fort Bragg for issuance of Desert Uniforms and equipment to allow them to deploy to Saudi Arabia. CENTCOM, or General Schwarzkopf apparently put his two cents in as well.

CENTCOM, FORSCOM, TRADOC, 18th Airborne Corps, 82nd Airborne Division, Third Brigade, Third Battalion, 505th Airborne Infantry Regiment, and on and on it went. All over what a few thousand paratroopers including one platoon of Combat Engineers, would do.

Imagine that, Generals all over the place were debating and discussing what to do with a thousand paratroopers at Fort Chaffee Arkansas. Send them home to Fort Bragg. Resupply and equip them at Fort Chaffee for direct deployment? Continue the training rotation? Shorten the Training Rotation?

It had taken us three days to load the train with our trucks to get there. It had taken us three days to unload the train when it arrived. Safety first. When we got orders to redeploy back to Fort Bragg, we had the equipment cleaned and on the train in one day. Of course, I was one of the people driving a Hummer at more than thirty miles an hour with inches to spare loading it on the train.

That was an emergency Situation where we were responding to an invasion with imminent threat of Additional invasion and we needed every single soldier we could find to get over there.

 

[Mac-7]

So onto this scenario. Aviations Mate Jones is the only Computer Technician on the ship.

The Roosevelt has 4,800 crew members

it will have an abundance of every Navy speciality

and the odds are 99 to 1 that Jones will not even know he’s sick unless he gets tested

 

[SavannahMann]

No, but it is his responsibility to report truthfully on the condition of his ship, and the condition of his crew, and their ability to answer orders and carry out the missions.

Sure

But report it directly to the next higher up in his chain of command

Not broadcast his complaints to the whole world

He did not. He reported the situation to thirty people with applicable oversight and authority.

Let me see if I can finally explain this to you in a way you will understand. I work for Bob. Bob is my direct supervisor. You are Quality Control. I have to submit reports to you about the quality of the cars we produce. Bob is in charge of Production.

I discover that the car we have started to produce four months ago has the same flaw that caused the Pinto to explode. If the car is hit from behind while the left turn signal is lit, the car can explode due to a design flaw.

I call Bob at home and tell him. I then write down what I discovered and attach the design schematic to the memo, and the schematic to the Pinto, and send it to everyone who needs to know. I send it to you. I send it to Risk Management, Legal, and the whole litany of departments that are going to be affected by this. I send everything to people within the company.

Someone else takes the Memo I wrote, while the bosses are sitting around and discussing it and cars are rolling off of the assembly line with the flaw intact, and sends the memo to the press.

Someone who received the memo sent it to the press. I didn’t send it. Now, the company fires me for writing the memo. They say I should never have written anything down. I should have trusted that my verbal report would be acted upon, eventually, by the company. Who knows how long it would have taken, and how many people would have died. That isn’t important, it is my fault for writing it down.

That is literally what you are blaming Crozier for. He was on board the Carrier. All communications on and off the Carrier are done through the Carrier’s communications system. There isn’t a single communications system that is not monitored. If Crozier had sent it to the Press, they would have had a record of it. There was no where for him to go that was not monitored. There was literally no way for him to send the message to the Press. The record would have been found in less than two hours of searching.

Someone who received it took that memo and sent it to the press. Someone who was in one of the offices which had oversight. The jackass Moldy fired Crozier for writing the memo and sending it out to those with Oversight or authority. Because it was so sensational it was certain to be leaked by someone who had oversight and authority over Crozier.

In other words, one of the Superior Officers leaked it to the Press. Crozier could not have without a record of his contacting the press. It could have been someone in Moldy’s own office who leaked it. But it is Crozier’s fault for writing it down.

So why are you helping to crucify a guy who did his job exactly the way he is supposed to? Why are you furious at the Captain who did what he was required to do? Why are you mad at him for following orders?

Once you understand all of that, if you still believe firing Crozier was the right thing to do, then you have no concept of Honor, Integrity, or Duty.