America Without God: No 'Moral Facts'

[PoliticalChic]

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

 

[Dot Com]

Yes it is. No matter how much good they might do, its based on a myth and monotheism has committed many atrocities throughout its inception.

"celestial dictatorship" (Hitchens term) He's right. You can have it. As for me?

"...monotheism has committed many atrocities throughout its inception."

I love smashing the custard pie in the kisser of you anti-religion bigots.

Ready?

"On the other hand, let’s take a look at secularism’s rich history of mass murder, and we need not go back a thousand years to make the point. Here are the 800 pound gorilla death totals from some notable secular leaders from the recent past (from the book Death by Government by R.J. Rummel):



Stalin....42,672,000

Mao.....37,828,000

Hitler....20,946,000

Lenin....4,017,000

Pol Pot...2,397,000

Chiang Kaishek...10,214,000

Tojo.....3,990,000

Total......122,064,000

122 million slaughtered by people who believe as you do.



Now go wash that mess off your face.

vs. Noah's Flood?

Gotcha running away from the facts I presented like you were burned.

And, you were.



I told you to wipe your face off....that's disgusting.

The Great Flood isn't a fact?

You can run but you can't hide.

You wrote: "...monotheism has committed many atrocities throughout its inception"...
....and I stuffed it right back down your throat.

ummm..... whatever you have to tell yourself PoliticalSpice. The Great Flood (from your pixie book ) wiped-out every living thing on the planet

 

[Dot Com]

"Our society says it's wrong."

You dope......

Your god must be very proud that you are following his teachings with your egotistical, know-it-all, holier-than-thou name calling and insults, always calling people stupid, dumb, "dope".

Did you learn that in Sunday school?

Winning hearts and minds....that's what I'm all about.
But...If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.


"....egotistical...."
Hmmm....got me.

The ego is the largest barrier from enlightenment. Its no accident yours is huge.

One needs reasons to be egotistical.....a condition you will, alas, never experience.

Youre right. Theres no good reason for anyone to be egotistical, so you being a lame of average intelligence....

Psst.

Its no wonder.

I'll save her from the humiliation of applying to an institution of higher learning:

don't try it PoliticalSpice so you won't end up being laughed out of the Admissions Office

 

[G.T.]

In her peabrain, quoting people who agree with you magically makes it a fact! Its magical!

 

[Dot Com]

If morality is just a human construct what is the motivation to follow it?

 

[sealybobo]

'America Without God: No 'Moral Facts'"

America has always been without 'god' because there is no 'god' as perceived by theists.

All manifestations of morality, values, and ethical conduct were created by man – whether in the context of religious dogma or not is irrelevant.

Theists have no 'monopoly' on morality, values, and ethical conduct, and it's a manifestation of their arrogance that many believe they do, where the 'authority of “god”' is but a facade behind which most Christians seek to hide their authoritarianism and contempt for the Constitution's mandate that church and state remain separate, and their efforts to conjoin church and state in violation of the First Amendment.

Ever notice no one at work ever brings up god? Or notice most people dont discuss religion or politics? If we actually believed wouldn't we talk about it all the time? Wouldnt we be hoping to die so we can go to paradise? Or if you knew someone was going to kill your friend wouldn't you be franticly calling them to warn them? So why aren't christians more concerned their agnostic friends are going to hell? I think most "believers" dont really believe I think they're playing it safe.

 

[sealybobo]

Morality is a product of reason, and those who treat the concept by doggedly following arbitrary "facts" are just as far from the mark as those who indulge in complete moral relativism.

Following a recipe does not make one a cook. A cook understands the process, and wants to know WHY they do what they do. If the only answer one returns for the question "why is this moral" happens to be "just because", they really aren't dealing with actual morality.

Too much of the right confuses social mores with morality. Too much of the left abandons the very notion of morality altogether through their hypocritical relativist sophistry. Precious few people are capable of moral reason.

Should I steal that cookie? I dont know. What does the bible say. Luke 10 16 says if thou stealith thy cookie then pluck your right eye out and cast it to thy neighbor who whilst thine lest be coveted on the 3rd sabbith so that no man goes hungry verily I say unto you.

 

[sealybobo]

'America Without God: No 'Moral Facts'"

America has always been without 'god' because there is no 'god' as perceived by theists.

All manifestations of morality, values, and ethical conduct were created by man – whether in the context of religious dogma or not is irrelevant.

Theists have no 'monopoly' on morality, values, and ethical conduct, and it's a manifestation of their arrogance that many believe they do, where the 'authority of “god”' is but a facade behind which most Christians seek to hide their authoritarianism and contempt for the Constitution's mandate that church and state remain separate, and their efforts to conjoin church and state in violation of the First Amendment.

C_Chamber_Pot.....you should take a course in history.


1. The Bible is the basis of the Constitution

2. There are four references to ‘Divine’ in D of I… 1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’ 2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,” 3) Supreme Judge of the world, and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.


So....no only are you a fool, but you don't mind letting everyone know it!

Don't ever change.

The fairytales in the bible are the basis for the constitution? What are the basis for the bible? What previous religions did christians cherry pick from? Even if christian morality is a part of our foundation that doesnt mean we have to keep believing this ancient superstition.

 

[sealybobo]

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

There are no moral facts. You right wingers for example defend zimmerman murdering trevon martin.

In fact dont most christian american gun owners say if you shoot someone dont shoot to wound them shoot to kill? I've never been comfortable with this. Why not shoot them in the arm or leg or any non lethal part of the body? So christians choose to kill rather than injure

 

[hortysir]

If morality is just a human construct what is the motivation to follow it?

Ok. Cute comic.
But it doesn't negate the OP.
Without a higher 'compass' all morality is just an opinion.
What you think is right I may think is wrong, or vice versa.
Just because you think something is wrong, because your parents told you so, doesn't make it so.
(pick a) Religion. In it there are absolutes.
Without these basic absolutes, when someone with the opinion that driving away in your car doesn't care that you think it's stealing, you don't get to say that it was 'wrong' just because you say so

 

[hortysir]

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

There are no moral facts. You right wingers for example defend zimmerman murdering trevon martin.

In fact dont most christian american gun owners say if you shoot someone dont shoot to wound them shoot to kill? I've never been comfortable with this. Why not shoot them in the arm or leg or any non lethal part of the body? So christians choose to kill rather than injure

Most? Like who?
I'd rather shoot an intruder's kneecap off and let him beg for his life while I stand over him waiting for the cops to show up

 

[sealybobo]

Hasn't Political Chic said she home schools kids?

Thinking back to home schooled kids I would get in wild life rehab. They would be interested in working with animals but incredibly ignorant about very basic things. I've written about this before - that they wouldn't know things like measuring cups and spoons. They would often have terrible grammar and when required to write, could not compose a simple sentence.

Anyway, PC is what is wrong with home schooling. She hunts until she finds something that reinforces her opinion and then refuses any discussion or debate. I have no doubt she would do the same with young people. She would call them dumb and tell them her opinion is written in concrete.

IOW, the opposite of education.

The whole point of educating a child is to prepare that kid for the real world. If PC has a great life and good plan for her kid then good for her. Will her kid do well in college? Find a good career? Be good at finding a partner and good friends?

What I think though is that parents who homeschool were probably traumatized in school and that's why they dont like public schools. So then we have an omega parent teaching their kid rather than sending them to schools where they will encounter alpha and betas. The weak teaching the weak.

 

[sealybobo]

If morality is just a human construct what is the motivation to follow it?

Ok. Cute comic.
But it doesn't negate the OP.
Without a higher 'compass' all morality is just an opinion.
What you think is right I may think is wrong, or vice versa.
Just because you think something is wrong, because your parents told you so, doesn't make it so.
(pick a) Religion. In it there are absolutes.
Without these basic absolutes, when someone with the opinion that driving away in your car doesn't care that you think it's stealing, you don't get to say that it was 'wrong' just because you say so

I just heard a catholic priest say good gays and athiests go to heaven. Your own religion can't even decide if Jesus said not believing in him sends people to hell. Or you debate the meaning. And he admitted Adam and eve is just an allegory.

Greek monks are still debating the meanings in the bible.

Do you think we knew it was wrong to fuck your neighbors wife or murder before moses wrote the ten commandments?

 

[Toro]

Could be a good topic...regretfully, I treat PChic's posts like Emily posts...I read the first sentence, start to glaze over and then feel the need to relieve myself. Could be a gem of a post...too bad she has to write a boring novella.

Agree ... Does anyone actually read PC, Flanders, Emily or that Spetch freak?

"Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?"

Huh?

"Conversation????

No....I'm merely attempting to educate you."

That pretty much sums it up.

She actually believes she is an authority on "god's authority" and will now wander and meander around, not making much sense but telling us that we're stupid for not getting her weird point of view.

Her knowledge does not compare with her ego.

It is Sunday...why isn't she at church?

I ask this every sunday

I am Christian...I go to Church every Sunday and have a strong set of ethical standards because of my relationship with Jesus. It bothers me when pseud-Christians spew nonsense on the interweb and don't even go to church!

Church is boring.

That's why I don't go.

 

[sealybobo]

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

There are no moral facts. You right wingers for example defend zimmerman murdering trevon martin.

In fact dont most christian american gun owners say if you shoot someone dont shoot to wound them shoot to kill? I've never been comfortable with this. Why not shoot them in the arm or leg or any non lethal part of the body? So christians choose to kill rather than injure

Most? Like who?
I'd rather shoot an intruder's kneecap off and let him beg for his life while I stand over him waiting for the cops to show up

You ask 100 gun owners who are christians including you and 99 are going to tell you the right answer is to kill them.

 

[Agit8r]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

 

[Moonglow]

Could be a good topic...regretfully, I treat PChic's posts like Emily posts...I read the first sentence, start to glaze over and then feel the need to relieve myself. Could be a gem of a post...too bad she has to write a boring novella.

Agree ... Does anyone actually read PC, Flanders, Emily or that Spetch freak?

"Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?"

Huh?

"Conversation????

No....I'm merely attempting to educate you."

That pretty much sums it up.

She actually believes she is an authority on "god's authority" and will now wander and meander around, not making much sense but telling us that we're stupid for not getting her weird point of view.

Her knowledge does not compare with her ego.

It is Sunday...why isn't she at church?

I ask this every sunday

I am Christian...I go to Church every Sunday and have a strong set of ethical standards because of my relationship with Jesus. It bothers me when pseud-Christians spew nonsense on the interweb and don't even go to church!

Church is boring.

That's why I don't go.

If they just had titty's and beer...

 

[hortysir]

If morality is just a human construct what is the motivation to follow it?

Ok. Cute comic.
But it doesn't negate the OP.
Without a higher 'compass' all morality is just an opinion.
What you think is right I may think is wrong, or vice versa.
Just because you think something is wrong, because your parents told you so, doesn't make it so.
(pick a) Religion. In it there are absolutes.
Without these basic absolutes, when someone with the opinion that driving away in your car doesn't care that you think it's stealing, you don't get to say that it was 'wrong' just because you say so

I just heard a catholic priest say good gays and athiests go to heaven. Your own religion can't even decide if Jesus said not believing in him sends people to hell. Or you debate the meaning. And he admitted Adam and eve is just an allegory.

Greek monks are still debating the meanings in the bible.

Do you think we knew it was wrong to fuck your neighbors wife or murder before moses wrote the ten commandments?

I ain't never been mainstream
I don't "hate" homosexuality any more than theft

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

There are no moral facts. You right wingers for example defend zimmerman murdering trevon martin.

In fact dont most christian american gun owners say if you shoot someone dont shoot to wound them shoot to kill? I've never been comfortable with this. Why not shoot them in the arm or leg or any non lethal part of the body? So christians choose to kill rather than injure

Most? Like who?
I'd rather shoot an intruder's kneecap off and let him beg for his life while I stand over him waiting for the cops to show up

You ask 100 gun owners who are christians including you and 99 are going to tell you the right answer is to kill them.

 

[sealybobo]

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

There are no moral facts. You right wingers for example defend zimmerman murdering trevon martin.

In fact dont most christian american gun owners say if you shoot someone dont shoot to wound them shoot to kill? I've never been comfortable with this. Why not shoot them in the arm or leg or any non lethal part of the body? So christians choose to kill rather than injure

Most? Like who?
I'd rather shoot an intruder's kneecap off and let him beg for his life while I stand over him waiting for the cops to show up

I started 2 threes about this and no one agrees with you. How come you haven't joined in?

 

[sealybobo]

If morality is just a human construct what is the motivation to follow it?

Ok. Cute comic.
But it doesn't negate the OP.
Without a higher 'compass' all morality is just an opinion.
What you think is right I may think is wrong, or vice versa.
Just because you think something is wrong, because your parents told you so, doesn't make it so.
(pick a) Religion. In it there are absolutes.
Without these basic absolutes, when someone with the opinion that driving away in your car doesn't care that you think it's stealing, you don't get to say that it was 'wrong' just because you say so

I just heard a catholic priest say good gays and athiests go to heaven. Your own religion can't even decide if Jesus said not believing in him sends people to hell. Or you debate the meaning. And he admitted Adam and eve is just an allegory.

Greek monks are still debating the meanings in the bible.

Do you think we knew it was wrong to fuck your neighbors wife or murder before moses wrote the ten commandments?

I ain't never been mainstream
I don't "hate" homosexuality any more than theft

What a nice Sunday...we've taught Sunday School to a whole bunch of our Godless pals, let's sum up:


11. Our secular philosopher's thesis is interesting....but it is not satisfying. He says we should, and must make our children aware moral facts....but, because he is secularist, he cannot take hold of what would make them understand said moral truths, moral facts.


This:

Without the idea that God determines what is moral, what is right or wrong, there cannot be moral facts.
Sans a belief in God, every idea of right and wrong is simply an opinion which allows or an alternative opinion, diametrically opposed to the first.



Basically, the warnings were there. Ivan Karamazov, in “The Brothers Karamazov,” exclaimed ‘if God does not exist, then everything is permitted.’
And in the last century, the century of genocide, the godless slaughtered over 100 million of their fellow men.....and women and children.



If God's prescriptions are followed, e.g., 'God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;' Genesis 1:27.... ...then how could religious folk allow slavery?


The answer is...they couldn't without fabricating a whole new view about black folks, claiming that were not human.
Get that: diametrically opposed to the Bible.

'Having been created as a free society, America, the concepts required to support slavery required ideological justifications that other slave societies had not found necessary.

The most essential justification was the assertion that the enslaved were so different that the principles and ideals of the country didn’t apply to them. Imagine the contortions that had to go into the idea that the slaves lacked the feelings that would cause them suffering from degradation, hard work, or the destruction of family ties.

In Virginia, Washington, Jefferson, Patrick Henry and James Madison all publicly advocated the abolition of slavery.'
Phillips, “American Negro Slavery,” p. 122-124.



But....if there is no faith in God....men can rationalize any position that suits their purposes.





So....a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, and the Bible, is the only way to argue that there are eternal moral facts......that are not simply opinions.

There are no moral facts. You right wingers for example defend zimmerman murdering trevon martin.

In fact dont most christian american gun owners say if you shoot someone dont shoot to wound them shoot to kill? I've never been comfortable with this. Why not shoot them in the arm or leg or any non lethal part of the body? So christians choose to kill rather than injure

Most? Like who?
I'd rather shoot an intruder's kneecap off and let him beg for his life while I stand over him waiting for the cops to show up

You ask 100 gun owners who are christians including you and 99 are going to tell you the right answer is to kill them.

Most of the commandments aren't even laws. Its not illegal to commit adultery lie or dishonor your parents. And you dont have to love or even believe in god. Or worship false idols? The 10 commandments are weak.