Americans drive 100 billion fewer miles

[editec]

I think there are one or two anarchists on here, but most of us agree that government has a role to play.

Of course there are. Not all libertarians are idiots...just many of them on these boards.

I think their role should be limited and targeted. If we want to be the world leader in green technology, that's fine, I have no problem with that.

I'd be satisfied if we were followers to be honest..just as long as we get there.

It's another industry just like any other and in ten years it will have its own GM or Exxon/Mobile or Walmart (so just remember you wanted this people).

I still reserve the right to bitch and moan when the time comes.

Governments role in that should be to forgo taxes on R&D in those technologies,

The government 'ALREADY does that. Spend money on R& D and you pay no taxes on that amount you spend on R&D.

provide credits for developing infrastructure to be used in those technologies,

You sure you're not in your heart of hearts, basically a liberal democrat?

spend money to develop macro-infrastructure and subsidize consumption to assist businesses in selling the green technologies.

Because there isn't a dimes worth of diference between the above (very sensible) proposals and those which any moderate Dem or socialist would make on this subject.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Of course there are. Not all libertarians are idiots...just many of them on these boards.




I'd be satisfied if we were followers to be honest..just as long as we get there.



I still reserve the right to bitch and moan when the time comes.



The government 'ALREADY does that. Spend money on R& D and you pay no taxes on that amount you spend on R&D.



You sure you're not in your heart of hearts, basically a liberal democrat?



Because there isn't a dimes worth of diference between the above (very sensible) proposals and those which any moderate Dem or socialist would make on this subject.

LOL... well fair enough. I know a lot of people you would have put on the floor by saying such a thing. But essentially, what I'm saying is that if we want to make it a National priority, that is a governmental decision to exercise its role as leader to move the country in a specific direction. (Like the space program). When government does that, it's allowed to do things that it otherwise shouldn't do.

I view this as an exception, not the rule.

 

[editec]

LOL... well fair enough. I know a lot of people you would have put on the floor by saying such a thing. But essentially, what I'm saying is that if we want to make it a National priority, that is a governmental decision to exercise its role as leader to move the country in a specific direction. (Like the space program). When government does that, it's allowed to do things that it otherwise shouldn't do.

I view this as an exception, not the rule.

Yeah, okay.

Let's face it, a LOT of things that this nation has done were done first by the government or with enormous government backing.

The transcontinental railroad, the TVA project, most electrification projects, the space program, the military, public roads, all of those needed the resources of our government to get them going.

The market cannot take risks that a government can, and so why NOT the greening of America?

Clearly the market isn't ready to take the risks that will be needed to radically change our way of life.

That's NOT the market's fault, it's just the way it is.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now if we have those as viable OPTIONS, I am all for it... but forcing someone to give up the car they wish to drive (whether it be a classic 69 Mustang Fastback, or an antique Harley, or a 10 cylinder truck to haul their horse trailer or recreational ATV's) is not the job of government in a free society

On the first two, I will give you a pass. On the big truck, why does it have to be a diesel or gas guzzler? How about a hybrid that gets very high mileage and still has the power to do the work? That is not a pipe dream. We have the technology to do it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Just like paying more in taxes is "patriotic"?

Horseshit

If the viable option is there.. great... a majority people will support it and dependence will go down some because of it... but if people still wish to have gas driven vehicles that they like, or show cars, or work vehicles that do not work well on the alternative technologies yet, they should not be FORCED to go electric

No, but perhaps they should pay an indulgence tax, since the polluntants they emit affect us all.

 

[Old Rocks]

We wouldn't be sending $750 billion over there if we were allowed exploit our own natural resources.

Secondly, half of these so called Hybrids only get like 20 mpg, so my non-hybrid S2000 get almost a third better gas mileage than your patriotic hybrid.

When the technology meets the demand people will switch. Trying to jawbone action sooner than that is a fool's errand.

Oh for God's sake. With 3% of the known reserves, and using 25% of the present production, we are going to "exploit" our own natural resources? Get real. What we do have is huge potential to produce energy via wind, solar, geothermal, and nuclear.

We have had the potential for an urban electric for nearly two decades. It has been thwarted by US oil and auto companies.
Live oil free with solar power and RAV4-EV, it's possible right now

 

[alan1]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Driving in America has undergone its most dramatic continuous decline in history, the Department of Transportation said Friday.

Americans drove 100 billion fewer miles during the 12-month period between November 2007 and October 2008 compared with the prior year, according to the DOT's most recent data.

Driving in U.S. continues to decline: DOT - Dec. 12, 2008

And the government just can't wean itself off of all those gasoline taxes it was getting. Seems that now that people are purchasing less gas, it's time for the government to institute a new tax in order to keep sucking money out of people.

N.C. taxman might watch odometers - Politics - News & Observer
Snip,

A special transportation committee on Wednesday approved a package of money-raising proposals, including a tax on North Carolina car owners based on the number of miles their vehicle travels each year.

I wonder if they will set up checkpoints on every highway that enters/exits the state so that they can tax out of state drivers (for mileage) that are just passing through?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I have been bike commuting for years.

I can't say I have notice much difference myself. Especially on Friday night on Highway 26

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Driving a hybrid or an electric car or a natural gas truck is patriotic. If we keep giving $750 billion dollars a year to foreign oil suppliers, we won't be free for long.

Freedom is patriotic. Nothing less.

 

[Chris]

Freedom is patriotic. Nothing less.

Freedom from what? For what?

The freedom to ruin America?

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Freedom from what? For what?

The freedom to ruin America?

Freedom.

 

[DiamondDave]

No, but perhaps they should pay an indulgence tax, since the polluntants they emit affect us all.

Liberal idiotic thinking effects us all... cow farts effect us all... your exhaling effects us all

I guess you need taxed extra

 

[DiamondDave]

On the first two, I will give you a pass. On the big truck, why does it have to be a diesel or gas guzzler? How about a hybrid that gets very high mileage and still has the power to do the work? That is not a pipe dream. We have the technology to do it.

Try looking at the efficiency of power for the larger work trucks compared to hybrid technology... there is no doubting diesel's superiority in providing power/torque, so often needed in the aspect of a work truck

 

[DiamondDave]

Freedom from what? For what?

The freedom to ruin America?

You and your kind are already doing that... so that job is taken

 

[Lycurgus]

In terms of fuel costs, the better we each can do in using less, the better we can effect the pricing, at least to some small degree. Though I'm pretty liberal in terms of the ecology, I'm far a tree hugging nut by any means. But for me, it's about money in terms of fuel.

Since I actually admitted to leaning liberal in one area, this post will self destruct in 30 sec.

 

[Old Rocks]

Try looking at the efficiency of power for the larger work trucks compared to hybrid technology... there is no doubting diesel's superiority in providing power/torque, so often needed in the aspect of a work truck

There are thousands of diesel-electric hybrids in use right now for the very reason of needed low end torque.

 

[DiamondDave]

There are thousands of diesel-electric hybrids in use right now for the very reason of needed low end torque.

Where? I have friends in the trucking industry that are AWAITING for such things in a viable and affordable sense.... but they simply are NOT either at this point