An Example of How Past Government Policy Has Helped Whites Today

[9thIDdoc]

Negative. Individuals have rights. Identities do not. Hate crimes and what not are only there to show "WHY" someone did something. It is especially heinous when someone commits a crime out of prejudice and bigotry. It has nothing to do with the identity itself. They are there to show that it's highly likely the person in question is not logical, and need extra time or perhaps education in which to regain their ability to come back to normal society.

"The Codification of Racism: Blacks, Criminal Sentencing, and the Legacy of Slavery in Georgia​

Date Written: February 17, 2009​

​

Abstract

The passage of the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1865 made the defeat of the southern Confederate army by the northern Union forces final and binding. It reads simply that: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime whereof a party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to its jurisdiction." The 13th Amendment memorialized the efforts of slaves, free persons of color, and other abolitionists to bring about freedom and equality. While it was a blessing for free people of color, it was a curse for Southern legislators. The theatre of the Civil War between the northern and southern United States was the South. As a result, southern land was scorched and devastated, and the infrastructure was severely damaged. In short, southern states had much work to do, but lacked a workforce that was legally compelled to do it. Almost immediately, southern legislators seized upon the opportunity to use the exception to the 13th Amendment to their advantage. Using the exception, Georgia's legislators developed their criminal code to suit the South's economic condition.​

​

Georgia's legislative manipulation of the 13th Amendment served to reinforce and perpetuate notions of Black criminality in the many incarnations of its criminal code. Throughout the 19th Century, the State legally constructed Blackness to support claims of African American criminality, ineptitude and laziness. Moreover, state interpretations of the 13th Amendment wrote protections for African Americans out of the law in a manner that preserved White supremacy and allowed the abuses of the convict leasing and labor system. Perhaps most significantly, the historical and legal changes that occurred in the 19th century shaped Georgia's criminal sentencing laws well into the 21st Century. The end result has been disproportionate incarceration rates for Georgia's African American community. Through an historical exploration of Georgia's criminal codes and sentencing provisions, this article seeks to examine how autonomous political entities, such as the United States and Georgia legislatures, changed their strategies over time to replicate racist practices and maintain racially hegemonic legal structures. This article was written to address the absence of scholarship on the 13th Amendment exception in discussions of disproportionate minority incarceration. It was also written to address the inability or unwillingness of the United States Supreme Court to understand how autonomous political entities maintain power over oppressed groups over time. This article provides an example of the racism imbedded in anti-discrimination laws, by virtue of our Nation's legal history, an examines how current anti-discrimination doctrine is not broad enough to address the codification of racism."​

The Codification of Racism: Blacks, Criminal Sentencing, and the Legacy of Slavery in Georgia by Teri A. McMurtry-Chubb :: SSRN​

I am very much unsure why you quoted me because this post is entirely off the subject of the GI Bill or the WWII era and I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

 

[IM2]

An Example of How Past Government Policy Has Helped Whites Today

Is the title of this thread. I presented not only the GI Bill but several other new deal policies. However the fact remains that whatever "individual rights" existed, black individuals were denied them. Millions of blacks at that. So at what point does the issue become one of group rights? I am quite sure that group rights would be well defined if this matter involved whites getting screwed.

 

[IM2]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

 

[Dale Smith]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

You are born in 1776?

 

[Shelzin]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

You're right... It used to. Assuming of course you are black. I'm pretty sure I made mention of that, or at least allowed for it in a previous post in this thread. It was corrected, because frankly there are only American rights. Not black rights, not white rights, not red rights... Just American rights.

If you are an American, you are just as blessed, and fucked, as the rest of us.

 

[Shelzin]

An Example of How Past Government Policy Has Helped Whites Today

Is the title of this thread. I presented not only the GI Bill but several other new deal policies. However the fact remains that whatever "individual rights" existed, black individuals were denied them. Millions of blacks at that.

Some blacks were indeed screwed with that. I won't argue against that. However YOU didn't. So... ... ...

So at what point does the issue become one of group rights? I am quite sure that group rights would be well defined if this matter involved whites getting screwed.

It never becomes an issue of group rights. At least not if we stick with the Constitution.

Best you can do is as a group is a class action lawsuit against whatever government entity that has harmed you. And I'm 100% behind you to do so if you wish.

I'm absolutely AGAINST anything that says we treat people differently based on race/skin color or sex within the government. That's bullshit.

But if you want to do a class action lawsuit against, I think it was Georgia, in a previous post for unlawful imprisonment... Go for it. I have zero problem with that.

Edit: I will happily go down this road with you if you want to further discuss it. But not tonight... I'm tired. But I think the main point of contention here is how you want to go about get "reparations" from the government. Or at least how I'm perceiving how you are trying to do it. You do it through the court system with a class action lawsuit, I'm with ya. I get it.

If you were wronged, you get what's coming to you.

 

[IM2]

Racial Preferences for Whites: The Houses That Racism Built
BY LARRY ADELMAN

Thirteen years ago, my parents sold the house I grew up in. It was one of those suburban tract homes that sprouted across the nation after World War II. Our home was pleasant if undistinguished. It wasn't one of Malvina Reynolds' "little boxes made of ticky tacky" - based on a drive the singer took past Daly City, CA in the '50s. It was a ranch house on a curving, leafy street in Merrick, Long Island, 25 miles east of Manhattan, about five miles from its more famous suburban neighbor, Levittown.

After turning 65, my father wasted no time retiring. He'd purchased our house back in 1952 for $20,000 thanks to a 4 percent mortgage made possible by the Veterans Administration. Now he was considering an offer of $300,000. With the money they'd get a place in the Berkshires and winter in Florida.

Ten years later, my colleague here at California Newsreel, Cornelius, sold the house he grew up in. Cornelius' folks had also purchased a place in the early '50s in Chester, just outside Philadelphia. A few years ago, after Cornelius' father passed away, his mother wanted to move back to Virginia. Cornelius sold the home in 2000 - for $29,500.

That $270,500 gap reveals a microcosm of race in America. My family is white and Cornelius' is black.

Race: The Power of an Illusion

www.racepowerofanillusion.org

 

[IM2]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

You're right... It used to. Assuming of course you are black. I'm pretty sure I made mention of that, or at least allowed for it in a previous post in this thread. It was corrected, because frankly there are only American rights. Not black rights, not white rights, not red rights... Just American rights.

If you are an American, you are just as blessed, and fucked, as the rest of us.

Again, you are incorrect.

 

[Shelzin]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

You're right... It used to. Assuming of course you are black. I'm pretty sure I made mention of that, or at least allowed for it in a previous post in this thread. It was corrected, because frankly there are only American rights. Not black rights, not white rights, not red rights... Just American rights.

If you are an American, you are just as blessed, and fucked, as the rest of us.

Again, you are incorrect.

I threw an Edit in there... Heads up.. Night.

 

[Quasar44]

And most of you benefitted from it.

On June 22, 1944 President Roosevelt signed the Servicemen’s Readjustment Act, better known as the G.I. Bill. This law provided benefits for veterans returning from the second World War. Funds were paid for college tuition, low-cost home loans, and unemployment insurance. As in every other program during this time southern congressmen fought passage of these laws unless there were provisions that limited access to blacks. The G.I Bill was no different.

Democratic congressmen in the south fought against provisions of the GI Bill out of fear that returning black veterans might be able to use public support for their war effort to advocate against Jim Crow laws. Southern Democrats using the same tactics they used to make certain other policies in the New Deal helped as few Black people as possible, wanted benefits to be administered by the states. Mississippi Congressman John Rankin was the ringleader in that regard]. He and other Southern Democrats knew doing that would allow southern states to do what each state had been doing since the Civil Rights Cases. That would be states implementing policies full of loopholes and restrictions that would be enforced on blacks but not whites thereby ensuring the GI Bill would primarily benefit whites. Congress gave southern Democrats what they wanted.

How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill

This Veteran's Day, remembering some of our veterans who protected a country that did not protect them.

progressive.org

How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans | HISTORY

The sweeping bill following World War II promised prosperity to veterans. So why didn’t Black Americans benefit?

www.history.com

Now before I have to hear you republicans sing that sad sorry lie about democrats, remember that republicans voted to give the southern democrats what they wanted. My father served in that war, he was from Louisiana and he did not get the benefits white soldiers got. This impacted my life and so when we speak about reparations, we're talking about policies like this and many others which came after slavery and do more so directly affect blacks living today.

Blacks have received billions in welfare
They have been paid back 100 times over
Only 4 percent of whites even owned slaves

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

Our constitution does not exist in a vacuum.

 

[Correll]

We are done being lectured like slow witted children. YOu have shit to say? Too bad, it is our turn. We have more shit to say and we have been waiting longer.

View attachment 364624

You called me names, I called you names back. You seem to think that was me being in the wrong. That is you dishing it out, and not being able to take it.


Such people in my culture, are not respected.


You don't want to talk to me? Put me on ignore. But know that all the other readers will see me as I point out the many, many flaws in your logic, and you do not even try to refute them.


Because you can't.

View attachment 364840

You called me names, I called you names back.



That is you dishing it out, and not being able to take it.


Such people in my culture, are not respected.


You don't want to talk to me? Put me on ignore. But know that all the other readers will see me as I point out the many, many flaws in your logic, and you do not even try to refute them.


Because you can't.

 

[Shelzin]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

Our constitution does not exist in a vacuum.

You are right it doesn't... If you don't like it work to change it, because it trumps anything and everything else when it comes to legality.

I say again:


It never becomes an issue of group rights. At least not if we stick with the Constitution.

Best you can do is as a group is a class action lawsuit against whatever government entity that has harmed you. And I'm 100% behind you to do so if you wish.

I'm absolutely AGAINST anything that says we treat people differently based on race/skin color or sex within the government. That's bullshit.

But if you want to do a class action lawsuit against, I think it was Georgia, in a previous post for unlawful imprisonment... Go for it. I have zero problem with that.

Edit: I will happily go down this road with you if you want to further discuss it. But not tonight... I'm tired. But I think the main point of contention here is how you want to go about get "reparations" from the government. Or at least how I'm perceiving how you are trying to do it. You do it through the court system with a class action lawsuit, I'm with ya. I get it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

You are born in 1776?

He's been whining since 1776.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Racial Preferences for Whites: The Houses That Racism Built
BY LARRY ADELMAN

Thirteen years ago, my parents sold the house I grew up in. It was one of those suburban tract homes that sprouted across the nation after World War II. Our home was pleasant if undistinguished. It wasn't one of Malvina Reynolds' "little boxes made of ticky tacky" - based on a drive the singer took past Daly City, CA in the '50s. It was a ranch house on a curving, leafy street in Merrick, Long Island, 25 miles east of Manhattan, about five miles from its more famous suburban neighbor, Levittown.

After turning 65, my father wasted no time retiring. He'd purchased our house back in 1952 for $20,000 thanks to a 4 percent mortgage made possible by the Veterans Administration. Now he was considering an offer of $300,000. With the money they'd get a place in the Berkshires and winter in Florida.

Ten years later, my colleague here at California Newsreel, Cornelius, sold the house he grew up in. Cornelius' folks had also purchased a place in the early '50s in Chester, just outside Philadelphia. A few years ago, after Cornelius' father passed away, his mother wanted to move back to Virginia. Cornelius sold the home in 2000 - for $29,500.

That $270,500 gap reveals a microcosm of race in America. My family is white and Cornelius' is black.

Race: The Power of an Illusion

www.racepowerofanillusion.org

Houses in bad neighborhoods are worth less. Weird, eh?

 

[9thIDdoc]

An Example of How Past Government Policy Has Helped Whites Today

Is the title of this thread. I presented not only the GI Bill but several other new deal policies. However the fact remains that whatever "individual rights" existed, black individuals were denied them. Millions of blacks at that. So at what point does the issue become one of group rights? I am quite sure that group rights would be well defined if this matter involved whites getting screwed.

You presented the WWII era GI bill along with the statement that the bill treated blacks and other races equally under the law. Then you proceeded to list all sorts of conjecture and opinion about how blacks might have been discriminated against anyway. Of course you ignore the fact that people in general (including whites) might have been discriminated against for all sorts of reasons including race. Group rights? The GI bill was all about giving benefits to veterans (including blacks) that were not granted to civilians. Discriminatory.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

The constitution used identity to make people like me 3/5ths of a person.

You're right... It used to. Assuming of course you are black. I'm pretty sure I made mention of that, or at least allowed for it in a previous post in this thread. It was corrected, because frankly there are only American rights. Not black rights, not white rights, not red rights... Just American rights.

If you are an American, you are just as blessed, and fucked, as the rest of us.

And before the passage of the 13th Amendment & 14th amendments black people were not considered "American" citizens.

And even after we gained citizenship, we were still not allowed full participation and benefits of that citizenship because the United existed under legal segregation. So it doesn't matter much what the Constiution said, the white supremacists in society crafted a bunch of laws at the state & local levels that denied black people the same rights, opportunities, justice, etc. that it afforded white citizens

Yes I am, the system shows I am, and the information I asked you to read proves that I am.

*shrugs* Read the constitution. It says otherwise.

Our constitution does not exist in a vacuum.

You are right it doesn't... If you don't like it work to change it, because it trumps anything and everything else when it comes to legality.

I say again:


It never becomes an issue of group rights. At least not if we stick with the Constitution.

Best you can do is as a group is a class action lawsuit against whatever government entity that has harmed you. And I'm 100% behind you to do so if you wish.

I'm absolutely AGAINST anything that says we treat people differently based on race/skin color or sex within the government. That's bullshit.

But if you want to do a class action lawsuit against, I think it was Georgia, in a previous post for unlawful imprisonment... Go for it. I have zero problem with that.

Edit: I will happily go down this road with you if you want to further discuss it. But not tonight... I'm tired. But I think the main point of contention here is how you want to go about get "reparations" from the government. Or at least how I'm perceiving how you are trying to do it. You do it through the court system with a class action lawsuit, I'm with ya. I get it.

Thing is, I don't expect to see the United States pay reparations during my lifetime, if ever. What I've been trying to point out though is that it has no legitimate basis for not doing so, particularly in light of reparations paid to other for the harms it created or perpetuated.

The damage done by the instiituion of chattel slavery, which when abolished continued under a different guise of racially based laws masked as separate but equal but all of which were intentionally to the detriment to people of African descent can be documented, including the sneaky ways black people were excluded from reaping the full benefits of the G.I., the social security safety net, educational opportunities when racist members of the school board shut down the entire district rather than comply with the Brown v Board of Education to integrate their schools, etc.. The school board did however provide funding so that the white children of their district could continue their educations at private schools despite the fact that the black parents paid for the schools via their property taxes same as teh white parents,. All of this is quantifiable harm for which reparations could be paid.

By the way, I appreciate your response and understand that we all have lives away from U.S. Message Board so if you would like to continue brainstorming on this, just send me a PM and we can arrange a convenient time for us both or we can continue it with the members who are on the Invite Only thread.

 

[Shelzin]

By the way, I appreciate your response and understand that we all have lives away from U.S. Message Board so if you would like to continue brainstorming on this, just send me a PM and we can arrange a convenient time for us both or we can continue it with the members who are on the Invite Only thread.

I'm completely ok with that. Honestly I'm back to work now after three weeks off, so you'll see me quite a bit less. Answers will be shorter ext... ext...

I try to stop by often on the weekends. but... You know how that goes.

 

[Godboy]

And most of you benefitted from it.

On June 22, 1944 President Roosevelt signed the Servicemen’s Readjustment Act, better known as the G.I. Bill. This law provided benefits for veterans returning from the second World War. Funds were paid for college tuition, low-cost home loans, and unemployment insurance. As in every other program during this time southern congressmen fought passage of these laws unless there were provisions that limited access to blacks. The G.I Bill was no different.

Democratic congressmen in the south fought against provisions of the GI Bill out of fear that returning black veterans might be able to use public support for their war effort to advocate against Jim Crow laws. Southern Democrats using the same tactics they used to make certain other policies in the New Deal helped as few Black people as possible, wanted benefits to be administered by the states. Mississippi Congressman John Rankin was the ringleader in that regard]. He and other Southern Democrats knew doing that would allow southern states to do what each state had been doing since the Civil Rights Cases. That would be states implementing policies full of loopholes and restrictions that would be enforced on blacks but not whites thereby ensuring the GI Bill would primarily benefit whites. Congress gave southern Democrats what they wanted.

How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill

This Veteran's Day, remembering some of our veterans who protected a country that did not protect them.

progressive.org

How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans | HISTORY

The sweeping bill following World War II promised prosperity to veterans. So why didn’t Black Americans benefit?

www.history.com

Now before I have to hear you republicans sing that sad sorry lie about democrats, remember that republicans voted to give the southern democrats what they wanted. My father served in that war, he was from Louisiana and he did not get the benefits white soldiers got. This impacted my life and so when we speak about reparations, we're talking about policies like this and many others which came after slavery and do more so directly affect blacks living today.

Quit begging for money. Go get a job you lazy bum.

 

[IM2]

And most of you benefitted from it.

On June 22, 1944 President Roosevelt signed the Servicemen’s Readjustment Act, better known as the G.I. Bill. This law provided benefits for veterans returning from the second World War. Funds were paid for college tuition, low-cost home loans, and unemployment insurance. As in every other program during this time southern congressmen fought passage of these laws unless there were provisions that limited access to blacks. The G.I Bill was no different.

Democratic congressmen in the south fought against provisions of the GI Bill out of fear that returning black veterans might be able to use public support for their war effort to advocate against Jim Crow laws. Southern Democrats using the same tactics they used to make certain other policies in the New Deal helped as few Black people as possible, wanted benefits to be administered by the states. Mississippi Congressman John Rankin was the ringleader in that regard]. He and other Southern Democrats knew doing that would allow southern states to do what each state had been doing since the Civil Rights Cases. That would be states implementing policies full of loopholes and restrictions that would be enforced on blacks but not whites thereby ensuring the GI Bill would primarily benefit whites. Congress gave southern Democrats what they wanted.

How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill

This Veteran's Day, remembering some of our veterans who protected a country that did not protect them.

progressive.org

How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans | HISTORY

The sweeping bill following World War II promised prosperity to veterans. So why didn’t Black Americans benefit?

www.history.com

Now before I have to hear you republicans sing that sad sorry lie about democrats, remember that republicans voted to give the southern democrats what they wanted. My father served in that war, he was from Louisiana and he did not get the benefits white soldiers got. This impacted my life and so when we speak about reparations, we're talking about policies like this and many others which came after slavery and do more so directly affect blacks living today.

Quit begging for money. Go get a job you lazy bum.

How many times are you going to repeat that dried up line? The US government owes us money. That's just the way it is and you repeating a dumb ass line isn't going to change that.