An invitation to Old Guy on the subject of Noah's Flood.

[JoeB131]

I want to start this off by saying I have no animus towards the poster known as "Oldguy". Sometimes we agree, occassionally we disagree, but I respect him for his thoughtful opinions and the articulate way he expresses them.

That said, without going through the process of a "Bull Ring Call out", I would invite him or others to comment on the following subject- Noah's flood.

I've discussed in the past how a Nun from my childhood had rationalized the near genocide (as described in the bible) of the human race- including babies- by the "wickedness" of humanity.

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

So I will offer the floor to OldGuy to opine on this issue as much or as little as he sees fit.

- Joe B.

 

[LittleNipper]

When God takes a life, it is His for the taking. He founded it, established it, fomulated it, designed it, created it. That said, I feel strongly that God is a God of unmearsurable love. As the creator, God and only God has the divine right to take away what belongs to Him and Him alone. Man has been empowered to take another human life to safeguard others and his own life.

Now coupled with this is the reality of eternity. If one believes in God one is faced with the belief that God is eternal and man, though finite (having a point of origin) continues to exist in some form forever. An innocent baby can all to soon grow into a spoiled brat and an ungrateful creep of an adult.

Now, the Lord of the Flood has revealed that He knows all our paths. There are no surprises with God. He unconditionally knows if a person will ultimately become a saved individual or die and spend an eternity separated from God.

So, back to any innocent babies. I firmly believe God is totally aware of their possible choices and their ultimate future given the opportunity to fully develope. I also believe that God has to do some things or the result would be that everyone would become pagan and end up in hell with any intervention. Now, I have two possible stances on this issue from a BIBLICAL standpoint. Either GOD saw that this baby allowed to mature would have become as evil or worse than the parents, and so God allowed the drowning and mercifully took the innocent baby to Heaven. OR, God allowed the drowning and the baby went to hell but its eternal punishment was insignificant conpared to what it would have been otherwise.

My take is that God mercifully took the innocent babies to be with Him, and cast the souls of the unredeemed sinful parents (who never begged to God for forgiveness but rather cursed God) to an eternity in hell.

I take this stance because of the verses surrounding the death of Bathsheba's illegitimate baby by King David. The indication seems to be that David will go to be with the Baby someday. If the Baby is in hell, such would seem very unlikely.

 

[blackcherry]

When God takes a life, it is His for the taking. He founded it, established it, fomulated it, designed it, created it.blah , blah .

Well said , Nipper . Having got that off your chest , off to the Doctor for a little chat .

 

[JoeB131]

When God takes a life, it is His for the taking. He founded it, established it, fomulated it, designed it, created it. That said, I feel strongly that God is a God of unmearsurable love. As the creator, God and only God has the divine right to take away what belongs to Him and Him alone. Man has been empowered to take another human life to safeguard others and his own life.

....

Dude, you make God sound like a Cosmic Andrea Yates.

And she was a crazy person who was suffering from Post Partum depression because her husband used her as a baby machine.

 

[LittleNipper]

When God takes a life, it is His for the taking. He founded it, established it, fomulated it, designed it, created it. That said, I feel strongly that God is a God of unmearsurable love. As the creator, God and only God has the divine right to take away what belongs to Him and Him alone. Man has been empowered to take another human life to safeguard others and his own life.

....

Dude, you make God sound like a Cosmic Andrea Yates.

And she was a crazy person who was suffering from Post Partum depression because her husband used her as a baby machine.

Sir, you make marrige sound like something man invented. And if he did, why did it take thousands of years to reach this point, if only man made it up? And you wish to reduce God to the level of man.

 

[JoeB131]

When God takes a life, it is His for the taking. He founded it, established it, fomulated it, designed it, created it. That said, I feel strongly that God is a God of unmearsurable love. As the creator, God and only God has the divine right to take away what belongs to Him and Him alone. Man has been empowered to take another human life to safeguard others and his own life.

....

Dude, you make God sound like a Cosmic Andrea Yates.

And she was a crazy person who was suffering from Post Partum depression because her husband used her as a baby machine.

Sir, you make marrige sound like something man invented. And if he did, why did it take thousands of years to reach this point, if only man made it up? And you wish to reduce God to the level of man.

Marriage and God are things man invented. For most of the history of Homo Sapiens, they didnt exist. And we were better off for them.

In case I didn't make myself clear, Noah's flood is a myth. I was only treating it as if it were true to spur the discussion of why a God that drowns babies because he "regretted making them*" is worthy of anyone's worship.

(*actual bible quote)

 

[LittleNipper]

Dude, you make God sound like a Cosmic Andrea Yates.

And she was a crazy person who was suffering from Post Partum depression because her husband used her as a baby machine.

Sir, you make marrige sound like something man invented. And if he did, why did it take thousands of years to reach this point, if only man made it up? And you wish to reduce God to the level of man.

Marriage and God are things man invented. For most of the history of Homo Sapiens, they didnt exist. And we were better off for them.

In case I didn't make myself clear, Noah's flood is a myth. I was only treating it as if it were true to spur the discussion of why a God that drowns babies because he "regretted making them*" is worthy of anyone's worship.

(*actual bible quote)

There is plenty of proof that the Flood and Noah were very real. And without GOD, there is no logical reason man or anything exists at all. And there is no reaon for your velues, opinons, or beliefs. God is worthy because He is perfect and wonderful, and yet puts up with people pursuading others to turn away from Him, for the very sake of His elect. Just as God saved Zoar for the sake of Lot.

 

[chikenwing]

I want to start this off by saying I have no animus towards the poster known as "Oldguy". Sometimes we agree, occassionally we disagree, but I respect him for his thoughtful opinions and the articulate way he expresses them.

That said, without going through the process of a "Bull Ring Call out", I would invite him or others to comment on the following subject- Noah's flood.

I've discussed in the past how a Nun from my childhood had rationalized the near genocide (as described in the bible) of the human race- including babies- by the "wickedness" of humanity.

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

So I will offer the floor to OldGuy to opine on this issue as much or as little as he sees fit.

- Joe B.

Christianity didn't exists in the time of Noah.


Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.


He did and his name is Jesus

 

[Mad Scientist]

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Communist Goal #27:

Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

 

[Hollie]

Sir, you make marrige sound like something man invented. And if he did, why did it take thousands of years to reach this point, if only man made it up? And you wish to reduce God to the level of man.

Marriage and God are things man invented. For most of the history of Homo Sapiens, they didnt exist. And we were better off for them.

In case I didn't make myself clear, Noah's flood is a myth. I was only treating it as if it were true to spur the discussion of why a God that drowns babies because he "regretted making them*" is worthy of anyone's worship.

(*actual bible quote)

There is plenty of proof that the Flood and Noah were very real. And without GOD, there is no logical reason man or anything exists at all. And there is no reaon for your velues, opinons, or beliefs. God is worthy because He is perfect and wonderful, and yet puts up with people pursuading others to turn away from Him, for the very sake of His elect. Just as God saved Zoar for the sake of Lot.

Actually, the biblical flood myth has been thoroughly debunked.

Secondly, gawds are an irrational appeal to fear and ignorance. The natural / rational world owes its existence to fully natural / rational processes that are largely understood.

 

[JoeB131]

[

There is plenty of proof that the Flood and Noah were very real. And without GOD, there is no logical reason man or anything exists at all. And there is no reaon for your velues, opinons, or beliefs. God is worthy because He is perfect and wonderful, and yet puts up with people pursuading others to turn away from Him, for the very sake of His elect. Just as God saved Zoar for the sake of Lot.

Yeah... Hmmm. Lot. I wasn't going to go there.

This would be the same Lot who offered up his "virgin" daughters for gang rape to an angry mob, then got drunk and had sex with them himself. This is the awesome guy God just HAD to save!

By the way, there is no proof of a world wide flood. In fact, it would be a scientific impossibility. So would ever species descending from a single pair of ancestors (they die of inbreeding in a few generations).

 

[JoeB131]

Christianity didn't exists in the time of Noah.


Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.


He did and his name is Jesus

Then why not deploy Jesus then instead of a couple thousand years later?

In fact, frankly, the way God did it was pretty inefficient, since there are whole sections of the planet where they never heard of Jesus until fairly recently.

 

[JoeB131]

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Communist Goal #27:

Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

Is this an actual list or are you just making things up?

I think you need to stop checking for commies under your bed and actually discuss the question at hand.

If anyone is kind of sweeping the whole moral question of the bible under the rug, it's the Churches themselves.

Here's the thing. I went to Catholic Schools for 12 years. They pretty much Disneyfied most of the really awful stories in the bible. They didn't even let us get a good clean look at the Old Testament until we were in High School.

 

[BreezeWood]

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

- Joe B.

"I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy".

not because of Noah, but their misunderstanding of JC.



God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Gods commandment is Remission to the Everlasting or Perish -

humanity chose the flaws causing expulsion and is for humanity to resolve the issue.

the choice is for each individual but in fact is for the Species and as with everything in the Garden death and life from one moment to the next is never a certainty ... be thankful.



Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Noah represented the fruition to the Parable of Judgement explicit to Mankind's expulsion from the Everlasting - excluded from the Judea / Christian Bible.

Parable of Judgement: When the last good person or the last evil person on earth dies, God will return to Judge those who are remaining - they or the last to die will be granted Remission to the Everlasting.

Noah represented the last good person on earth who's death would have fulfilled the Parable and Mankind would have ceased to exist (Armageddon: the triumph of evil) - Rather, God prior to Noah's death exacted judgement beforehand on those already destined to death allowing Mankind one last chance. - The Triumph of Good over Evil.

 

[JoeB131]

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

- Joe B.

"I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy".

not because of Noah, but their misunderstanding of JC.

God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Gods commandment is Remission to the Everlasting or Perish -

humanity chose the flaws causing expulsion and is for humanity to resolve the issue.

the choice is for each individual but in fact is for the Species and as with everything in the Garden death and life from one moment to the next is never a certainty ... be thankful.



Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Noah represented the fruition to the Parable of Judgement explicit to Mankind's expulsion from the Everlasting - excluded from the Judea / Christian Bible.

Parable of Judgement: When the last good person or the last evil person on earth dies, God will return to Judge those who are remaining - they or the last to die will be granted Remission to the Everlasting.

Noah represented the last good person on earth who's death would have fulfilled the Parable and Mankind would have ceased to exist (Armageddon: the triumph of evil) - Rather, God prior to Noah's death exacted judgement beforehand on those already destined to death allowing Mankind one last chance. - The Triumph of Good over Evil.

Wow, that's really kind of a lot of nonsense that didn't come anywhere close to answering my question.

One more time, how can a God who drowns babies be considered "Good"?

 

[chikenwing]

I think this diminished Christianity as a moral philosophy. Surely an omnipotent God could have found another solution to the flaws of humanity that didn't involve genocide or infanticide.

Communist Goal #27:

Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

Is this an actual list or are you just making things up?

I think you need to stop checking for commies under your bed and actually discuss the question at hand.

If anyone is kind of sweeping the whole moral question of the bible under the rug, it's the Churches themselves.

Here's the thing. I went to Catholic Schools for 12 years. They pretty much Disneyfied most of the really awful stories in the bible. They didn't even let us get a good clean look at the Old Testament until we were in High School.

So you feel you have had a bad experience and want everyone else to share your bad experience,how thoughtful of you.

 

[JoeB131]

[

So you feel you have had a bad experience and want everyone else to share your bad experience,how thoughtful of you.

No, I thought I was lied to for 12 years by people using religion as the color of authority. Some of them used that authority to do really bad things.

So it's time to blow the lid off the fraud, baby!

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

One more time, how can a God who drowns babies be considered "Good"? - Question

How can humans assign a moral value to any act of God?

 

[chikenwing]

Dude, you make God sound like a Cosmic Andrea Yates.

And she was a crazy person who was suffering from Post Partum depression because her husband used her as a baby machine.

Sir, you make marrige sound like something man invented. And if he did, why did it take thousands of years to reach this point, if only man made it up? And you wish to reduce God to the level of man.

Marriage and God are things man invented. For most of the history of Homo Sapiens, they didnt exist. And we were better off for them.

In case I didn't make myself clear, Noah's flood is a myth. I was only treating it as if it were true to spur the discussion of why a God that drowns babies because he "regretted making them*" is worthy of anyone's worship.

(*actual bible quote)

Opinions yours, not everyone has the same,there is much evidence of a great flood,archeologist ,believe they have possibly found parts of the arc,is any of it concrete proof? no but certainly there is non for the other side of the question ether.

Jesus walked this earth,the Romans have written records,the Hebrews have written records,the Muslims have written records of his life.

what do you think the mathematical probabilities of the conditions for life to spontaneously form,same conditions for it to survive,then figure out how to reproduce,and diversifies itself. those are some really big numbers.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Opinions yours, not everyone has the same,there is much evidence of a great flood,archeologist ,believe they have possibly found parts of the arc,is any of it concrete proof? no but certainly there is non for the other side of the question ether.

No, the problem is, the story is so absurd and has so many scientific fallacies in it that doesn't pass the laugh test. The problem with the flood as a disaster is that if the oceans did cover the entire world for a year, all the plant life would have died, and there would be nothing for the animals to eat when they got out of the ark... except for each other.

Another huge problem. If a Lion needs to eat so many gazelles a year to stay alive... why are there still Gazelles?

Shit, I could do this all day... but I think you get the point, unless you want to declare it all "Magic".

Jesus walked this earth,the Romans have written records,the Hebrews have written records,the Muslims have written records of his life.

Actually, only Christians have records of Jesus.. and they don't show up until a century after his death. Everything else is an interpolation or things that were added in later.

But a historical Jesus is a lot more probable than a world wide flood.

[
what do you think the mathematical probabilities of the conditions for life to spontaneously form,same conditions for it to survive,then figure out how to reproduce,and diversifies itself. those are some really big numbers.

Since we only have one planet to study, where it could have happened, we don't know. So far we are one for one on the planets we've explored.