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Really nowAbsolutely..Yeah...except no....
The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control
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The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds. Typically a gun’s magazine-release button is near the trigger. To change a magazine, the person holding the gun presses the magazine-release button with a thumb or finger. The magazine instantly drops to the floor. While one hand was pushing the magazine-release button, the other hand can grab a fresh magazine (which might be carried in a special holster on a belt) and bring it toward the gun. The moment the old magazine drops out, a fresh one is inserted.37
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Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.
Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.
It is important to consider the advantages a criminal has over his intended victims. The criminal has the element of surprise, whereas the victim is the one surprised. The criminal can decide at leisure what weaponry he will bring; whereas the victim must respond with what’s at hand at the moment of attack. A criminal can bring several guns, or lots of magazines; whereas the victim will usually have on hand, at most, a single defensive gun with only as much ammunition as is in that gun. Thus, legislation confining law-abiding victims to magazines of 10 or fewer magnifies the criminal’s advantage over his intended victim
Violent confrontations are unpredictable; for example, if a person is fighting against one or two perpetrators, he may not know if there is an additional, hidden attacker. Thus, defensive gun users need to keep a reserve of ammunition. So even though armed defenders do not usually fire more than 10 shots, reducing reserve capacity (e.g., from a standard 17-round magazine to a 10-round substitute) will reduce the number of defensive shots. Fewer shots fired at the attacker reduces the risk of injury to the attacker, and thereby raises the risk of injury to the victim.
The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds.
See? You have no need for a high capacity magazine and would not be inconvenienced in the least
Let me finish you post for you....
Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.
Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.
Exactly.......thanks for making my point
Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.
That 20 year old kid with his AR--15 does not want to be bothered with having to continually change magazines as he slaughters six year olds. He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.
That is why society does not want him to have access to that 45 round magazine
And you are wrong again....
He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.
The seven myths of mass murder | OUPblog
Research consistently shows that mass murderers research, plan, and prepare for their act of violence for days, weeks, and even months. The fantasy may have incubated in their minds for years, even though the time, place, and target had yet to be determined. The act usually occurs after a major loss in love or work, and this may “start the clock” wherein final detailed preparation begins.
I have forensically evaluated a number of mass murderers in prison or forensic hospitals, and with few exceptions, there was no evidence of a high state of emotional arousal when the killings occurred.
Witnesses who have survived mass murders invariably describe the shooter as cool, calm, and deliberate – a lack of emotion that is a corollary of planned violence.
Why do you keep making my life easier?
So why the fuck do we want to make this assholes life easier by providing him large capacity magazines!
Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round magEveryone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jamNo...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..
No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....
No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....
So no....you are wrong.....
So who needs a 30 round magazine?
3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.
and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.
30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades
If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag
Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.
There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.
My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.
How many rifles can you name that come standard with a 30 round or more clip?
How many rifles can you name that come standard with a 30 round or more clip?
None come with the mags standard ... You can find deals for any number of them with 30 round mags as additional accessories though.
That's all up to the manufacturer's/dealer's offer ... Your question is open ended and the answer would vary depending on the day of the week in some cases.
Seriously ... I am not just being obtuse nor ambiguous.
The mag is an accessory and is not technically part of the weapon ... It holds the ammunition and is interchangeable.
As far as how many could be sold with 30 round mags as additional accessories ... Open an arms catalog, turn to the appropriate pages and count them yourself.
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I was told that a thirty round clip wasn't high capacity, because that is the standard size for rifles; all rifles. Seemed like more bullshit tome.
I was told that a thirty round clip wasn't high capacity, because that is the standard size for rifles; all rifles. Seemed like more bullshit tome.
Okay, thanks ... That better explains your question.
A 30 round mag is a standard size ... Not necessarily considered "high capacity".
That's just something politicians and political pundits decided to call them for their own purposes ... So people were correct in telling you that.
There isn't necessarily a "standard" ... It is really just part of the sale/deal.
Most include 30 round mags just as a benefit of the deal ... Not as much as a requirement ... They are still what may come with that firearm.
If a dealer/manufacturer has an abundance of 10 round mags in surplus ... They may include a bunch of those as part of the deal just to make it more appealing.
It is kind of what comes in the box ... Or doesn't ... And if you spend the money on the firearm, it isn't uncommon to get a 30 round mag.
It isn't so much the fact you have to have pickles on your hamburger ... If you don't want them, you are going to have to ask for it that way.
Now if you think I am going to let you decide whether or not I want pickles on my hamburger* ... Not a chance ...
*I know, terrible analogy in context to your concerns ... But accurate just the same.
.
Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round magEveryone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam
So who needs a 30 round magazine?
3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.
and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.
30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades
If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag
Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.
There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.
My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.
How many rifles can you name that come standard with a 30 round or more clip?
I don't know I haven't bought a rifle in years if you want to know go find out
Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.
So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.
No they don'tYes they areAfraid it isSee how easy it is?
You have no need for a higher capacity magazine
And it's not up to you to decide that for me or anyone else. Besides I am talking about a carry weapon not a rifle here
IMO it's beyond stupid to limit magazine size. I carry more ammo now than I used to since the magazine limit was enacted. I would have thought you would say that's not a good thing.
That is why we belong to a society. Society gets to decide what is best for the society
Most societies in the free world have already decided they do not want citizens to have access to assault rifles with large capacity magazines
They are much safer than we are
Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"
And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.
The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults
Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France
UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France
Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....
French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade
The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.
“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”
============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.
The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.
I'm not denying you the right to defend yourselfReally nowAbsolutely..
The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds.
See? You have no need for a high capacity magazine and would not be inconvenienced in the least
Let me finish you post for you....
Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.
Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.
Exactly.......thanks for making my point
Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.
That 20 year old kid with his AR--15 does not want to be bothered with having to continually change magazines as he slaughters six year olds. He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.
That is why society does not want him to have access to that 45 round magazine
And you are wrong again....
He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.
The seven myths of mass murder | OUPblog
Research consistently shows that mass murderers research, plan, and prepare for their act of violence for days, weeks, and even months. The fantasy may have incubated in their minds for years, even though the time, place, and target had yet to be determined. The act usually occurs after a major loss in love or work, and this may “start the clock” wherein final detailed preparation begins.
I have forensically evaluated a number of mass murderers in prison or forensic hospitals, and with few exceptions, there was no evidence of a high state of emotional arousal when the killings occurred.
Witnesses who have survived mass murders invariably describe the shooter as cool, calm, and deliberate – a lack of emotion that is a corollary of planned violence.
Why do you keep making my life easier?
So why the fuck do we want to make this assholes life easier by providing him large capacity magazines!
You aren't making his life easier, you aren't denying a normal person a tool that might allow them to survive a violent attack....criminals will get any magazine they want, normal people will only buy what is legal....that is a disparity of force you can't explain.
Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.
I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.
I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.
Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.
You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.
Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...
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So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.
It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...
.
there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.
It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...
.
Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?
there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.
It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...
.
Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?
Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt
there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.
It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...
.
Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?
Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt
Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.
there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.
It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...
.
Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?
Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt
Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.
ruger has a 25 round mag that i got with mine
Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.
No they don't
They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation
Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.
It isn't random ... There are standard sizes ... In any caliber ... 5, 10, 15, 30.
I was saying that 30 round mags are a standard mag ... But there is no standard as to what you get regarding a deal when you purchase the firearm.
I am not being ugly about it ... You just don't get it.
Chocolate and vanilla are standard flavors of ice cream ... If you order a scoop of ice cream that doesn't mean it has to be chocolate to be a standard flavor.
Because more people may like chocolate doesn't mean vanilla isn't a standard flavor.
Aw never mind ... Screw it ... You're not going to understand that either, and it is okay you believe whatever you want ...
It's not going to change the debate ... It isn't anything I need to worry about.
Maybe your Representatives in congress can explain it to you ... Or I am pretty sure someone at the range could help you out with that.
.
No they don't
They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation
Nah ... It's because they speak French ... Doesn't have anything to do with gun laws ...
.
No they don'tYes they areAfraid it isAnd it's not up to you to decide that for me or anyone else. Besides I am talking about a carry weapon not a rifle here
IMO it's beyond stupid to limit magazine size. I carry more ammo now than I used to since the magazine limit was enacted. I would have thought you would say that's not a good thing.
That is why we belong to a society. Society gets to decide what is best for the society
Most societies in the free world have already decided they do not want citizens to have access to assault rifles with large capacity magazines
They are much safer than we are
Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"
And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.
The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults
Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France
UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France
Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....
French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade
The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.
“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”
============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.
The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.
They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation
