Micro stamping, just another anti-gun tactic

[hadit]

But they do.




Sorry, I kinda respect a persons privacy rights to not have to release their private medical history to some cashier.




His therapists reported him. Law enforcement did absolutely nothing.




Or did something when his therapist told law enforcement he was a danger and had threatened her.




So the cashier at the gun store needs to take an in depth application, hope the potential buyer is giving a complete history and call everyone they know? And then as a simple low paid cashier make a determination on a persons ability to own a gun?

No, he literally wants the minimum wage cashier at the gun store to take a look at the buyer and think, "That guy looks crazy to me", and have the authority to deny the buyer a gun. Never mind, of course, the position of authority that would put a racist cashier in.

 

[JGalt]

The problem is, every time the government tries to tighten up background checks, the usual gun fondlers will run to congress and whine they had to fill out another piece of paperwork.

You can't weaken gun restrictions to be nearly non-existent, and then whine the government didn't keep Joker Holmes from getting a gun.

A gun seller looked at that freak with his orange hair and said, "Yup, you look like a fine young man, here's an AR-15 and a 100 round drum magazine!"

We already have a working firearms restrictions and background check system. It's because of the incompetence of the government that it doesn't work. Not to mention liberal judges who refuse to prosecute gun crimes to the full extent of the law.

Laws mean nothing when there are no consequences.

 

[pknopp]

We already have a working firearms restrictions and background check system. It's because of the incompetence of the government that it doesn't work. Not to mention liberal judges who refuse to prosecute gun crimes to the full extent of the law.

Laws mean nothing when there are no consequences.

It wasn't a "liberal judge" that ignored James Holmes therapist.

 

[2aguy]

Cars aren't designed to kill people.

I'd have no problem with a gun buyer being required to sign a medical records waiver for a background check.

It seems like common sense.

The question is, do you deny a gun to someone if they were treated for depression 40 years ago?

No, of course not.

If they are hearing voice now, like Joker Holmes was, then absolutely.

If they had called Holmes's school, they'd have found out he was being expelled due to his erratic behavior.

Same with the VA Tech shooter. His school knew he was a problem. The Gun store didn't care to find out.

Cars kill more people every single year than guns do, and they do so more than guns do where criminals use them to commit actual murder.

A muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental truck to murder 86 people, and wounded 435...more people murdered in 5 minutes than even the Las Vegas shooting and any other mass public shooting in American history....

If you open up attacks on law abiding gun makers and stores, you open up law suits against car makers, alcoholic beverage makers as well, and any other product when their products are intentionally misused for crime or accidents....you dumb ass.

 

[JGalt]

It wasn't a "liberal judge" that ignored James Holmes therapist.

Why are you focusing on one shooter that killed 12 people one day out of the year? Twice as many are shot, killed, and wounded each and every week in Chicago alone. Now multiply that times every other US city whose liberal judicial system refuses to apply the fullest sentences to gun criminals. Multiply that times the number of people illegally carrying firearms, such as car-jackers, drug dealers, petty thieves, rapists, and gangster wannabes.

Those are the people who need to be controlled, not the guns and law-abiding gun-owners.

 

[pknopp]

Why are you focusing on one shooter that killed 12 people one day out of the year? Twice as many are shot, killed, and wounded each and every week in Chicago alone. Now multiply that times every other US city whose liberal judicial system refuses to apply the fullest sentences to gun criminals. Multiply that times the number of people illegally carrying firearms, such as car-jackers, drug dealers, petty thieves, rapists, and gangster wannabes.

Those are the people who need to be controlled, not the guns and law-abiding gun-owners.

We are discussing access to guns by the mentally ill and what to do about it. If you wish to discuss that, great.

 

[JoeB131]

Odd how no one understood this for 240 years. Not even the Founders.

Actually, the interpretation that the Militia Amendment concerns guns is a relatively recent one—it is only found in Heller in 2010. Previous rulings, such as US v. Miller, found that the militia amendment allowed for sensible gun regulation.

 

[JoeB131]

Why are you focusing on one shooter that killed 12 people one day out of the year? Twice as many are shot, killed, and wounded each and every week in Chicago alone. Now multiply that times every other US city whose liberal judicial system refuses to apply the fullest sentences to gun criminals. Multiply that times the number of people illegally carrying firearms, such as car-jackers, drug dealers, petty thieves, rapists, and gangster wannabes.

Those are the people who need to be controlled, not the guns and law-abiding gun-owners.

I agree, let's make it hard for those people to get guns.

 

[pknopp]

Actually, the interpretation that the Militia Amendment concerns guns is a relatively recent one—it is only found in Heller in 2010. Previous rulings, such as US v. Miller, found that the militia amendment allowed for sensible gun regulation.

I never argued there could be no gun regulations. I believe most any restriction must be enacted through due process though.

 

[JoeB131]

That's a common mistake ... here in the United States, we have what is generally characterized as "duel sovereignty" ... we have both Federal laws and State laws ... and we have both a Federal Constitution and State Constitutions ...

No, guy, here's the mistake.

Joker Holmes can buy a gun.
Awake the Rapper can buy a gun.
That nut at VA Tech can buy a gun.
Nancy Lanza can stock up enough guns to fight the Zombie Apocalypse, and her kid can steal the guns and kill preschoolers.
Nicholas Cruz can buy a gun and shoot up his old school.

This is the mistake.

Not a bunch of legalistic nonsense that flies in the face of fucking common sense.

 

[JoeB131]

We already have a working firearms restrictions and background check system.

no, we don't.

And we don't fix things when an obvious failing happens.

After 9/11 they did a bunch of stuff to make sure that very unlikely thing never happened again.
We still have to take off our shoes at airports because one knucklehead tried to light up some C-4 in his shoes.

But we have mass shooting after mass shooting, every last fucking one of them as crazy as a shithouse rat, and we never stop to say, "Hey, maybe we should make it hard for crazy people to get guns!"

 

[pknopp]

no, we don't.

And we don't fix things when an obvious failing happens.

After 9/11 they did a bunch of stuff to make sure that very unlikely thing never happened again.
We still have to take off our shoes at airports because one knucklehead tried to light up some C-4 in his shoes.

But we have mass shooting after mass shooting, every last fucking one of them as crazy as a shithouse rat, and we never stop to say, "Hey, maybe we should make it hard for crazy people to get guns!"

We should have that conversation. We won't it seems.

 

[ReinyDays]

No, guy, here's the mistake.

Joker Holmes can buy a gun.
Awake the Rapper can buy a gun.
That nut at VA Tech can buy a gun.
Nancy Lanza can stock up enough guns to fight the Zombie Apocalypse, and her kid can steal the guns and kill preschoolers.
Nicholas Cruz can buy a gun and shoot up his old school.

This is the mistake.

Not a bunch of legalistic nonsense that flies in the face of fucking common sense.

The mistake is taking away MY RIGHTS because others abuse THEIR RIGHTS ... not without 2/3's of each house of Congress and 3/4's the States ...

Guns protect us from people like you ... convicting me of mass murder with those you listed just because I like plinking targets with a .22 ... or dispatching coyotes with an AR-15 ... that's something Stalin would say so by your common sense you're just as bad as Stalin ...

 

[JGalt]

We are discussing access to guns by the mentally ill and what to do about it. If you wish to discuss that, great.

Maybe you'd better go back and read the OP. The thread is about micro-stamping guns and criminals. Nowhere in the OP does he mention "mentally ill." Determining who is mentally-unfit or otherwise is the job of the healthcare profession.

 

[JoeB131]

The mistake is taking away MY RIGHTS because others abuse THEIR RIGHTS ... not without 2/3's of each house of Congress and 3/4's the States ...

Guns protect us from people like you ... convicting me of mass murder with those you listed just because I like plinking targets with a .22 ... or dispatching coyotes with an AR-15 ... that's something Stalin would say so by your common sense you're just as bad as Stalin ...

There are no rights. ANy fool who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans, 1942"

Guns don't protect us from ANYTHING. They might give you a false sense of security, but if the government is intent on killing you, they will kill you.

 

[ReinyDays]

There are no rights. ANy fool who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans, 1942"

Guns don't protect us from ANYTHING. They might give you a false sense of security, but if the government is intent on killing you, they will kill you.

Why would a State Militiaman worry about the State Militia coming to kill him? ... you're incoherent ... please think out your posts a little more ...

The gun show industry endorsed our laws requiring background checks at gun shows ... indeed any gun transaction must have a background check at a local gun store ... that makes good sense, and it works great ... we never hear of gun violence at gun shows ...

Gun violence occurs where gun are prohibited ... like public schools ... see, no background checks to get on campus, not even a metal detector or armed guards ... like they have in Israel ...

 

[Anathema]

Microstamping is a farce. All I have to do is replace the firing pin and the records are no longer up to date. Takes about ten minutes. Relatively cheap, too.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, the interpretation that the Militia Amendment concerns guns is a relatively recent one—it is only found in Heller in 2010. Previous rulings, such as US v. Miller, found that the militia amendment allowed for sensible gun regulation.

And that is a lie...in Heller, they went through case law all the way back to the colonies and England.

 

[2aguy]

no, we don't.

And we don't fix things when an obvious failing happens.

After 9/11 they did a bunch of stuff to make sure that very unlikely thing never happened again.
We still have to take off our shoes at airports because one knucklehead tried to light up some C-4 in his shoes.

But we have mass shooting after mass shooting, every last fucking one of them as crazy as a shithouse rat, and we never stop to say, "Hey, maybe we should make it hard for crazy people to get guns!"

We had 12 mass public shootings in both 2022 and 2023....in a country of over 350 million people, over 600 million guns in private hands and over 22 million people who can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

12 individuals out of over 350 million is not mass shooting after mass shooting, you lying asshole.

 

[2aguy]

There are no rights. ANy fool who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans, 1942"

Guns don't protect us from ANYTHING. They might give you a false sense of security, but if the government is intent on killing you, they will kill you.

The actual research says you are really stupid...

Studies on defensive gun use....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press