CDZ Are anti gunners serious when they say they will stop at 10 round magazines?

[2aguy]

Let me finish you post for you....

Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.

Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.

Exactly.......thanks for making my point

Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.

That 20 year old kid with his AR--15 does not want to be bothered with having to continually change magazines as he slaughters six year olds. He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.
That is why society does not want him to have access to that 45 round magazine

And you are wrong again....

He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.

The seven myths of mass murder | OUPblog

Research consistently shows that mass murderers research, plan, and prepare for their act of violence for days, weeks, and even months. The fantasy may have incubated in their minds for years, even though the time, place, and target had yet to be determined. The act usually occurs after a major loss in love or work, and this may “start the clock” wherein final detailed preparation begins.

I have forensically evaluated a number of mass murderers in prison or forensic hospitals, and with few exceptions, there was no evidence of a high state of emotional arousal when the killings occurred.

Witnesses who have survived mass murders invariably describe the shooter as cool, calm, and deliberate – a lack of emotion that is a corollary of planned violence.

Really now
Why do you keep making my life easier?

So why the fuck do we want to make this assholes life easier by providing him large capacity magazines!

You aren't making his life easier, you aren't denying a normal person a tool that might allow them to survive a violent attack....criminals will get any magazine they want, normal people will only buy what is legal....that is a disparity of force you can't explain.

I'm not denying you the right to defend yourself

Only denying a mass killer the freedom to buy whatever killing tools he needs to slaughter young children and churchgoers

You mean like rental trucks? One was used to murder 89 people, more than the 6 mass public shootings in 2016 combined......you mean like that.....

 

[2aguy]

Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

 

[BULLDOG]

Exactly.......thanks for making my point

Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.

That 20 year old kid with his AR--15 does not want to be bothered with having to continually change magazines as he slaughters six year olds. He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.
That is why society does not want him to have access to that 45 round magazine

And you are wrong again....

He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.

The seven myths of mass murder | OUPblog

Research consistently shows that mass murderers research, plan, and prepare for their act of violence for days, weeks, and even months. The fantasy may have incubated in their minds for years, even though the time, place, and target had yet to be determined. The act usually occurs after a major loss in love or work, and this may “start the clock” wherein final detailed preparation begins.

I have forensically evaluated a number of mass murderers in prison or forensic hospitals, and with few exceptions, there was no evidence of a high state of emotional arousal when the killings occurred.

Witnesses who have survived mass murders invariably describe the shooter as cool, calm, and deliberate – a lack of emotion that is a corollary of planned violence.

Really now
Why do you keep making my life easier?

So why the fuck do we want to make this assholes life easier by providing him large capacity magazines!

You aren't making his life easier, you aren't denying a normal person a tool that might allow them to survive a violent attack....criminals will get any magazine they want, normal people will only buy what is legal....that is a disparity of force you can't explain.

I'm not denying you the right to defend yourself

Only denying a mass killer the freedom to buy whatever killing tools he needs to slaughter young children and churchgoers

You mean like rental trucks? One was used to murder 89 people, more than the 6 mass public shootings in 2016 combined......you mean like that.....

Again. What could that possibly have to do with a discussion about guns? Totally irrelevant.

 

[2aguy]

So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.

It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...

.

Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?

there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22

Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt

Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.

AR-15 rifles ship with 30 round magazines as standard issue.......but thanks for playing....moron.

Specifications: Ruger AR-556
CALIBER: 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington
CAPACITY: Comes with one 30-round magazine

 

[2aguy]

And you are wrong again....

He is not a trained killer and is under extreme stress and probably mentally unstable.

The seven myths of mass murder | OUPblog

Research consistently shows that mass murderers research, plan, and prepare for their act of violence for days, weeks, and even months. The fantasy may have incubated in their minds for years, even though the time, place, and target had yet to be determined. The act usually occurs after a major loss in love or work, and this may “start the clock” wherein final detailed preparation begins.

I have forensically evaluated a number of mass murderers in prison or forensic hospitals, and with few exceptions, there was no evidence of a high state of emotional arousal when the killings occurred.

Witnesses who have survived mass murders invariably describe the shooter as cool, calm, and deliberate – a lack of emotion that is a corollary of planned violence.

Really now
Why do you keep making my life easier?

So why the fuck do we want to make this assholes life easier by providing him large capacity magazines!

You aren't making his life easier, you aren't denying a normal person a tool that might allow them to survive a violent attack....criminals will get any magazine they want, normal people will only buy what is legal....that is a disparity of force you can't explain.

I'm not denying you the right to defend yourself

Only denying a mass killer the freedom to buy whatever killing tools he needs to slaughter young children and churchgoers

You mean like rental trucks? One was used to murder 89 people, more than the 6 mass public shootings in 2016 combined......you mean like that.....

Again. What could that possibly have to do with a discussion about guns? Totally irrelevant.

Well...dipshit...he was talking about "killing tools" and the worst killing tool in the recent past was a rental truck.....killed more people than the last two mass shooters with rifles......

 

[Likkmee]

I'd say it's the truth. They figure when you walk out the door with a semi and a ten round clip and the Nazis have 5 drones each with 200 rounds of laser guided AP 223 it was a reason for them to use "excessive force" ;Swiss Cheesing your entire house.

 

[BULLDOG]

Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

 

[jon_berzerk]

It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...

.

Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?

there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22

Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt

Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.

ruger has a 25 round mag that i got with mine

Ruger includes their 25 round mag with some of their Tactical rifles. Otherwise you paid extra for it. Their standard magazine is 10 rounds.

so what

 

[jon_berzerk]

So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.

It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...

.

Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?

there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22

Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt

Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.

AR-15 rifles ship with 30 round magazines as standard issue.......but thanks for playing....moron.

Specifications: Ruger AR-556
CALIBER: 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington
CAPACITY: Comes with one 30-round magazine

besides that the 10/22 comes in many variations

 

[BULLDOG]

Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?

there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22

Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt

Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.

ruger has a 25 round mag that i got with mine

Ruger includes their 25 round mag with some of their Tactical rifles. Otherwise you paid extra for it. Their standard magazine is 10 rounds.

so what

My point was that I was told a 30 round clip was not high capacity because it is the standard size for rifles. That is obviously bullshit.

 

[jon_berzerk]

there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22

Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt

Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.

ruger has a 25 round mag that i got with mine

Ruger includes their 25 round mag with some of their Tactical rifles. Otherwise you paid extra for it. Their standard magazine is 10 rounds.

so what

My point was that I was told a 30 round clip was not high capacity because it is the standard size for rifles. That is obviously bullshit.

ruger sells them for the 10/22 so according to them that is one of their standard sizes


Ruger News

 

[Skull Pilot]

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

How many rifles can you name that come standard with a 30 round or more clip?

I don't know I haven't bought a rifle in years if you want to know go find out

So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.

No it wasn't.

15 is standard for semiauto pistols
the standard for semiauto rifles has always been anywhere between 20 and 30

The push to call these standard size magazines "high capacity" is recent

I'm not going to look at the specs of every semiauto rifle sold for you but you can start here

Discount Semi-Automatic Rifles For Sale | AR-15 | Sportsman's Guide

 

[Skull Pilot]

I was told that a thirty round clip wasn't high capacity, because that is the standard size for rifles; all rifles. Seemed like more bullshit tome.

Okay, thanks ... That better explains your question.
A 30 round mag is a standard size ... Not necessarily considered "high capacity".
That's just something politicians and political pundits decided to call them for their own purposes ... So people were correct in telling you that.

There isn't necessarily a "standard" ... It is really just part of the sale/deal.
Most include 30 round mags just as a benefit of the deal ... Not as much as a requirement ... They are still what may come with that firearm.

If a dealer/manufacturer has an abundance of 10 round mags in surplus ... They may include a bunch of those as part of the deal just to make it more appealing.
It is kind of what comes in the box ... Or doesn't ... And if you spend the money on the firearm, it isn't uncommon to get a 30 round mag.

It isn't so much the fact you have to have pickles on your hamburger ... If you don't want them, you are going to have to ask for it that way.
Now if you think I am going to let you decide whether or not I want pickles on my hamburger* ... Not a chance ...



*I know, terrible analogy in context to your concerns ... But accurate just the same.


.

Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.

The thing is a semiauto rifle capacity is in many , not all, cases defined by the magazine not the rifle. And many many rifles come from the factory with 30 round mags.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So when I was told that 30 rounds was the standard size for rifle magazines, that was a lie.

It is a standard size ... Just the same as small, medium and large are standard sizes in clothing.
If you would to call your double extra large fat jeans "high capacity jeans" ... Well, I guess you could ...

.

Would you call a 30 round magazine standard for a 10/22? I've never seen one, have you?

there are all sorts of magazines for the 10/22

Ruger 10/22 Magazine - Ruger SR-22 Mags - Ruger Charger Magazine - Cheaper Than Dirt

Did't ask if it existed. I asked if it was the standard sized magazine the comes on the gun.

it doesn't matter

if the manufacturer makes 30 round mags for their rifles they are standard sizes.

most rifle only come with 1 magazine and everyone buys additional mags

 

[Skull Pilot]

And it's not up to you to decide that for me or anyone else. Besides I am talking about a carry weapon not a rifle here

IMO it's beyond stupid to limit magazine size. I carry more ammo now than I used to since the magazine limit was enacted. I would have thought you would say that's not a good thing.

Afraid it is

That is why we belong to a society. Society gets to decide what is best for the society
Most societies in the free world have already decided they do not want citizens to have access to assault rifles with large capacity magazines

They are much safer than we are

Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"

And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.

The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults

Yes they are

Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France

UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France

Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.


Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.

No they don't

They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation

countries that have enacted those tough gun laws did not see their murder rates drop after those laws were passed.

we banned an entire class of semiautomatic rifles for 10 years and it didn't effect the murder rate in this country at all

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

 

[frigidweirdo]

The left always says they just want common sense gun control....and one of those measures they always want is a limit on 10 bullets for all magazines

Now, keep in mind, this will not limit the deaths in mass shootings, as actual research shows. The killers, like the guy in Texas had plenty of magazines and changed them 14 times while he was murdering those people.

And Criminals won't care about a 10 round limit because they will just get theirs illegally, and they can rape a woman just as easily with a 10 round magazine, murder a rival or rob someone.

The only people a 10 round magazine limit effects is the law abiding gun owner, who does not commit any crime or murder. People who have guns that take 15-19 rounds in their pistols...will now be criminals if they don't do something with their guns.....dittos rifles that will take 30 round magazines.....

I have listed the points made by David Kopel on why law abiding people need more than 10 rounds, in other places and would happily do so again. I have also posted the ruling by the California judge placing a hold on the new California magazine ban where he accurately takes apart all of the arguments made against 10 round magazines.

The question, however, is this.........if the anti gunners get all the 15-30 round magazines....will they leave the 10 round magazines alone?

Keep in mind, the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines to murder 6 people.......

Laws against murder do not stop murder. Murderers don't follow those laws, so lets just do away with those useless laws. That makes as much sense as the silly crap you keep repeating.

Except in the UK the murder rate is 1/4 the US murder rate, the US murder rate is 3/4 guns. The UK saw 23 gun murders in 2013, the US saw 11,208. Now, take that the UK is 5 times smaller, that's still 115 compared to 11,208. I mean, the laws don't work? Are you kidding me?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The left always says they just want common sense gun control....and one of those measures they always want is a limit on 10 bullets for all magazines

Now, keep in mind, this will not limit the deaths in mass shootings, as actual research shows. The killers, like the guy in Texas had plenty of magazines and changed them 14 times while he was murdering those people.

And Criminals won't care about a 10 round limit because they will just get theirs illegally, and they can rape a woman just as easily with a 10 round magazine, murder a rival or rob someone.

The only people a 10 round magazine limit effects is the law abiding gun owner, who does not commit any crime or murder. People who have guns that take 15-19 rounds in their pistols...will now be criminals if they don't do something with their guns.....dittos rifles that will take 30 round magazines.....

I have listed the points made by David Kopel on why law abiding people need more than 10 rounds, in other places and would happily do so again. I have also posted the ruling by the California judge placing a hold on the new California magazine ban where he accurately takes apart all of the arguments made against 10 round magazines.

The question, however, is this.........if the anti gunners get all the 15-30 round magazines....will they leave the 10 round magazines alone?

Keep in mind, the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines to murder 6 people.......

Laws against murder do not stop murder. Murderers don't follow those laws, so lets just do away with those useless laws. That makes as much sense as the silly crap you keep repeating.

Except in the UK the murder rate is 1/4 the US murder rate, the US murder rate is 3/4 guns. The UK saw 23 gun murders in 2013, the US saw 11,208. Now, take that the UK is 5 times smaller, that's still 115 compared to 11,208. I mean, the laws don't work? Are you kidding me?

Here we go again

The murder rate in the UK did not decrease after all their gun bans and confiscations in fact it went UP

The UK has always had a lower murder rate than the US as far back as I can look via internet searches.

That difference is more a reflection of the differences of the 2 societies and all the variables involved with those differences and not from gun laws alone as you say.

 

[rightwinger]

Afraid it is

That is why we belong to a society. Society gets to decide what is best for the society
Most societies in the free world have already decided they do not want citizens to have access to assault rifles with large capacity magazines

They are much safer than we are

Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"

And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.

The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults

Yes they are

Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France

UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France

Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.


Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.

No they don't

They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation

No......their gun crime is going up, not down.....their criminals get guns easily, they just don't commit murder with them....why is that so hard a concept for you left wingers....?

Must mean the population has more guns

We still have five times the murder rate

 

[rightwinger]

Afraid it is

That is why we belong to a society. Society gets to decide what is best for the society
Most societies in the free world have already decided they do not want citizens to have access to assault rifles with large capacity magazines

They are much safer than we are

Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"

And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.

The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults

Yes they are

Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France

UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France

Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.


Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

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Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.

No they don't

They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation

countries that have enacted those tough gun laws did not see their murder rates drop after those laws were passed.

we banned an entire class of semiautomatic rifles for 10 years and it didn't effect the murder rate in this country at all

Australia did