Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[DudleySmith]

the "CROSS" is oldy and moldy and oh so proud
of its hundreds of millions dead in genocides

Who said anything about the cross? 'Hundreds of millions'? lol rubbish. You probably beleive that , being a racist bigot.

 

[DudleySmith]

Jews got to Iberia long before the rapist of mecca
was born. Bar Kokhba had nothing to do with
either christians (butt bois to greeks and romans)
or Samaritans----he fought roman butt bois.
Jews fled Iberia based on the filth of both christian
and muslim oppression or hid in the hills or faked conversion. Interestingly, it was Maimonides who
overcame the reluctance to fake conversion to FILTH

Take it up with the real scholars at that University in Tel Aviv, which is apparently full of ' antisemitism n stuff' and apparenlty not at all very impressed or intimidated with Hassidic racists. Of course with Netanyahu's latest turn to sucking up to the far right, don't be surprised if they get declared to 'not be real Jews' and tossed in prison or executed.

 

[DudleySmith]

If you read the NT, you will understand how Prager is praising Christians for being law abiding Noachides, not trying to convert them to Judaism.

lol Christianity is a Jewish sect.

 

[buttercup]

No, it is scriptural.

I know that there are different views on that, but I don't think that's the correct reading. For a number of reasons. Not only because Jesus is said to be the "once and for all" sacrifice, but also because it would contradict other verses, including Isaiah 11 and Isaiah 65, where it says "no one will harm or destroy" in that peaceful, future restored world. Also what many people don't realize is that there are a number of verses that say God didn't like animal sacrifices or really want them in the first place... It was something that was already going on, so God made rules about it for His people, but it wasn't His original idea... In fact, evidence shows it was a pagan practice, and that's likely where the Israelites learned it, when they were in Egypt.

 

[irosie91]

Take it up with the real scholars at that University in Tel Aviv, which is apparently full of ' antisemitism n stuff' and apparenlty not at all very impressed or intimidated with Hassidic racists. Of course with Netanyahu's latest turn to sucking up to the far right, don't be surprised if they get declared to 'not be real Jews' and tossed in prison or executed.

DUDs engages in typical islamo nazi, shallow minded, libel and suradie SUCKS UP -------as Shlomo said---there is nothing new under the sun

 

[irosie91]

Take it up with the real scholars at that University in Tel Aviv, which is apparently full of ' antisemitism n stuff' and apparenlty not at all very impressed or intimidated with Hassidic racists. Of course with Netanyahu's latest turn to sucking up to the far right, don't be surprised if they get declared to 'not be real Jews' and tossed in prison or executed.

take WHAT UP? Some "scholars" at the
"University of Tel Aviv" have declared Chassidim
to the "racists"? You PREDICT that some "scholars"
at the University of Tel Aviv are going to be executed? and Suradie AGREES -----gee

 

[Lisa558]

Jesus isnt done yet.

The prophesy wasn’t that we would know the Messiah has come because the Third Temple would be built, and there would be peace throughout the world - but we wouldn’t REALLY know because none of that would come true for thousand of years.

Also, Jesus was supposed to descend from the House of David on his father’s side - and have a human father. The idea that the Messiah is a deity of some type is antithetical to Jewish teachings.

 

[Lisa558]

Is Yeshua/Jesus The prophesied one, The Messiah?​ In Jn. 5:39 he claimed he was the promised one the Messiah.That all scripture is written of him. How can we know he spoke the truth, how can we check what is being said. Well we need to look at the genealogy the family tree or line since the Messiah has a very specific lineage. From the beginning God established the genealogy and gave us its record so it would be one of the ways to identify him. Gen.3:15 tells us he would be from the seed of the woman. This is the only place this is mentioned since the seed is from the man. It also says he would crush (conquer) the serpents head. He would overcome Satan who introduced sin to mankind. This is all fulfilled by the virgin birth in Mt.1:16,18 Gen.9:26 tells us Canaan was cursed and Shem was blessed (Shem = name, Semitic people of the name) So he would come through the people of the name. Gen 12:1-3, 7 says he would come from the line of Abraham. So then this means the messiah needs to be a physical descendant of Abraham eliminating all other family lines. (Matt.1:1, Gal.3:8, 14, 16) Both Jews, Christians and Muslims are identified with the seed of Abraham. Abraham is told that in his seed all nations will be blessed. Gen.17:18-21, 21:12 Abraham had two sons Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael is from Hagar who is from Ham (Egyptian). |So now in Gen. 26 he separates the two and now he must come through Isaac (Heb.11:17-19). But then we find that Isaac had two sons Esau and Jacob (Numb.24:17-19)so then God eliminates another line by saying he will come through Jacob not Esau. So we find now that the messiah comes from the Jewish line as it narrows from Abraham Isaac to Jacob. Jacob had twelve sons of which only one would be picked so eleven are eliminated Gen 49 It gets even narrower that the Messiah had to come from the tribe of Judah. This is found in Genesis 49 (Matt.1:2 , Heb. 7:14-17) He will come from the tribe of Judah who is the 4th son of Jacob through Leah. so does not come through Rachel.Gen.29:35 He will come from the tribe of Judah which eliminates 11 other tribes. But not any tribe in Judah Isa.11:1 tells us from the many lines of Judah it would be from the line of Jesse. Yet he had 8 sons so 7 need to be eliminated . Jesse was the father of David 2 Sam. 7:12-17, ps.89:20-29, 35-36. The Messiah is to come through the house of David . The book of Matthew written to Jews makes the point that Jesus would come from the line of David who is from the line of Abraham (Mt.1:1). Then the line narrows even further where we find the Messiah will come from the line of Solomon who was David's son. 1 Chron.22:9 ;28:4-5 David had at the least 17 children but God chose only one, the son of David and Bathsheba.Ps.132:11 the fruit of David's body will be set upon the throne. (Romans 1:3 Messiahs of the seed of David) In Matthews account four woman are mentioned Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba. Tamar and Rahab were harlots, Bathsheba committed adultery and Rahab and Ruth were Gentiles. Women are rarely mentioned in the lineage records. These are for good reason, to show The birth would not be dependent on mans goodness and that he came to save sinners Gentiles as well Jews. Mary was a descendent from David through his son Nathan. Jesus could not be the real son of Joseph or he would have come from the line of Coniah. Jeremiah 22:24 tells us the line of Coniah son of Jehoiakim is cursed (Jeconiah the Je is left off his name because it relates to the name Lord .He was so evil it was left off). The decree was that no descendent of this wicked king would prosper (vs.30). If Jesus were the actual son of joseph he would have been under this curse. the virgin birth solves all this. Joseph adopts Jesus as his step father and he inherits the legal right to the throne. The word ' of the' appears in all the genealogies listed in the book of Luke except one, that is of Joseph. This exception to this is because of his line connected to Jer.22. He is included because of his marriage to Mary. Matthews genealogy makes it clear as it is not attributed to Joseph but Mary. Location The family line was established but now we need to go to the location. God specifically picked one place, Bethlehem, for the Messiah to be born Mic.5:2. So now even if one is born somewhere else from the line of David he can’t be the Messiah. Nazareth or Jerusalem is eliminated Mt.2:1. There were two Bethlehem's. This Town was given to the tribe of Judah it was the place where King David was born it is the "house of bread". How fitting that the bread of life would come from this house. But this is a particular area in Bethlehem , Ephratah (the sheepfold) which narrows the possibilities even more. This is where the shepherds watched over their flocks as we see them doing when the angel comes to them and announces their Kings birth. How will he be born ? He will be born of a virgin without any human father, the seed of the woman Isa.7:14 (MT.1:22-23) and also from David's line. Joseph adopted him and Jesus becomes the legal heir to the throne. Now lets go to the time of his coming. He will be born before the tribe of Judah loses its identity. Gen 49:10 - "The scepter shall not depart from Judah nor the rulers staff from between his feet until the SHILO comes and to Him be the obedience of the people." Shilo was one of the places the Ark of the Covenant dwelt . Every tribe of Israel had its own scepter a staff with its name inscribed on it. The scepter represents its judicial authority . The removal of the scepter occurred when Herod the Great, who was not a Jew became King and the Sanhedrin had its power limited. Both of these happened during the lifetime of Jesus. The name Shiloh is synonymous with the name of the Messiah ( Talmud Sanh.98B) It means WHO IS IT. So according to this prophecy the Messiah had to come before the scepter was removed from Judah. Numbers 24:17 "I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; a Star shall come out of Jacob; a Scepter shall rise out of Israel, and batter the brow of Moab, and destroy all the sons of tumult." This is a vision which spans over 1,500 years. This star was not something seen in the sky, but a person coming from the lineage of Jacob who has glory. Jacob who birthed Israel the nation, Salvation will come from the Jews. But there is even more facts from scripture to define the time of his coming Dan.9:24-27 tells us the Messiah will appear before the destruction of the city of Jerusalem and the temple which occurred In 70 AD. Daniel received his prophecy after the first destruction of the temple in 586 BC. so Daniels writing in 9:24-27 of the Messiah appearing, of being "cut off" was future. The city would be destroyed afterward along with its genealogical records. So whoever is going to be Messiah must come before this all transpires. The record shows 483 years from 445 B.C. and before the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD. Getting back to what God promised David when he dies, "I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom (2 Samuel 7:12). The first verse in the book of Matthew (New Testament) records the fulfillment of the prophecy of his coming from the house of David . The book of the generation of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham (Matthew 1:1) The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary he announced Jesus’ birth also confirming the prophecy Luke 1:31,32 "You will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David."​ All the prophecies were fulfilled literally and exactly. They were literal people, literal places and fulfilled in the minutest of detail. Jesus did not control of any of these prophecies of where he was born nor did not choose his own parents or place of birth or who his mother was or the time. God the Father ordained all these specific events before the foundation of the world and slowly revealed them to man through the Jewish prophets by his Spirit. The Scriptures are clear​ IS HE YOUR MESSIAH ? Is Jesus the Messiah Is Jesus the Messiah or are we to look for another. letusreason.org ​

Is Yeshua/Jesus The prophesied one, The Messiah?​ In Jn. 5:39 he claimed he was the promised one the Messiah.That all scripture is written of him. How can we know he spoke the truth, how can we check what is being said. Well we need to look at the genealogy the family tree or line since the Messiah has a very specific lineage. From the beginning God established the genealogy and gave us its record so it would be one of the ways to identify him. Gen.3:15 tells us he would be from the seed of the woman. This is the only place this is mentioned since the seed is from the man. It also says he would crush (conquer) the serpents head. He would overcome Satan who introduced sin to mankind. This is all fulfilled by the virgin birth in Mt.1:16,18 Gen.9:26 tells us Canaan was cursed and Shem was blessed (Shem = name, Semitic people of the name) So he would come through the people of the name. Gen 12:1-3, 7 says he would come from the line of Abraham. So then this means the messiah needs to be a physical descendant of Abraham eliminating all other family lines. (Matt.1:1, Gal.3:8, 14, 16) Both Jews, Christians and Muslims are identified with the seed of Abraham. Abraham is told that in his seed all nations will be blessed. Gen.17:18-21, 21:12 Abraham had two sons Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael is from Hagar who is from Ham (Egyptian). |So now in Gen. 26 he separates the two and now he must come through Isaac (Heb.11:17-19). But then we find that Isaac had two sons Esau and Jacob (Numb.24:17-19)so then God eliminates another line by saying he will come through Jacob not Esau. So we find now that the messiah comes from the Jewish line as it narrows from Abraham Isaac to Jacob. Jacob had twelve sons of which only one would be picked so eleven are eliminated Gen 49 It gets even narrower that the Messiah had to come from the tribe of Judah. This is found in Genesis 49 (Matt.1:2 , Heb. 7:14-17) He will come from the tribe of Judah who is the 4th son of Jacob through Leah. so does not come through Rachel.Gen.29:35 He will come from the tribe of Judah which eliminates 11 other tribes. But not any tribe in Judah Isa.11:1 tells us from the many lines of Judah it would be from the line of Jesse. Yet he had 8 sons so 7 need to be eliminated . Jesse was the father of David 2 Sam. 7:12-17, ps.89:20-29, 35-36. The Messiah is to come through the house of David . The book of Matthew written to Jews makes the point that Jesus would come from the line of David who is from the line of Abraham (Mt.1:1). Then the line narrows even further where we find the Messiah will come from the line of Solomon who was David's son. 1 Chron.22:9 ;28:4-5 David had at the least 17 children but God chose only one, the son of David and Bathsheba.Ps.132:11 the fruit of David's body will be set upon the throne. (Romans 1:3 Messiahs of the seed of David) In Matthews account four woman are mentioned Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba. Tamar and Rahab were harlots, Bathsheba committed adultery and Rahab and Ruth were Gentiles. Women are rarely mentioned in the lineage records. These are for good reason, to show The birth would not be dependent on mans goodness and that he came to save sinners Gentiles as well Jews. Mary was a descendent from David through his son Nathan. Jesus could not be the real son of Joseph or he would have come from the line of Coniah. Jeremiah 22:24 tells us the line of Coniah son of Jehoiakim is cursed (Jeconiah the Je is left off his name because it relates to the name Lord .He was so evil it was left off). The decree was that no descendent of this wicked king would prosper (vs.30). If Jesus were the actual son of joseph he would have been under this curse. the virgin birth solves all this. Joseph adopts Jesus as his step father and he inherits the legal right to the throne. The word ' of the' appears in all the genealogies listed in the book of Luke except one, that is of Joseph. This exception to this is because of his line connected to Jer.22. He is included because of his marriage to Mary. Matthews genealogy makes it clear as it is not attributed to Joseph but Mary. Location The family line was established but now we need to go to the location. God specifically picked one place, Bethlehem, for the Messiah to be born Mic.5:2. So now even if one is born somewhere else from the line of David he can’t be the Messiah. Nazareth or Jerusalem is eliminated Mt.2:1. There were two Bethlehem's. This Town was given to the tribe of Judah it was the place where King David was born it is the "house of bread". How fitting that the bread of life would come from this house. But this is a particular area in Bethlehem , Ephratah (the sheepfold) which narrows the possibilities even more. This is where the shepherds watched over their flocks as we see them doing when the angel comes to them and announces their Kings birth. How will he be born ? He will be born of a virgin without any human father, the seed of the woman Isa.7:14 (MT.1:22-23) and also from David's line. Joseph adopted him and Jesus becomes the legal heir to the throne. Now lets go to the time of his coming. He will be born before the tribe of Judah loses its identity. Gen 49:10 - "The scepter shall not depart from Judah nor the rulers staff from between his feet until the SHILO comes and to Him be the obedience of the people." Shilo was one of the places the Ark of the Covenant dwelt . Every tribe of Israel had its own scepter a staff with its name inscribed on it. The scepter represents its judicial authority . The removal of the scepter occurred when Herod the Great, who was not a Jew became King and the Sanhedrin had its power limited. Both of these happened during the lifetime of Jesus. The name Shiloh is synonymous with the name of the Messiah ( Talmud Sanh.98B) It means WHO IS IT. So according to this prophecy the Messiah had to come before the scepter was removed from Judah. Numbers 24:17 "I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; a Star shall come out of Jacob; a Scepter shall rise out of Israel, and batter the brow of Moab, and destroy all the sons of tumult." This is a vision which spans over 1,500 years. This star was not something seen in the sky, but a person coming from the lineage of Jacob who has glory. Jacob who birthed Israel the nation, Salvation will come from the Jews. But there is even more facts from scripture to define the time of his coming Dan.9:24-27 tells us the Messiah will appear before the destruction of the city of Jerusalem and the temple which occurred In 70 AD. Daniel received his prophecy after the first destruction of the temple in 586 BC. so Daniels writing in 9:24-27 of the Messiah appearing, of being "cut off" was future. The city would be destroyed afterward along with its genealogical records. So whoever is going to be Messiah must come before this all transpires. The record shows 483 years from 445 B.C. and before the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD. Getting back to what God promised David when he dies, "I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom (2 Samuel 7:12). The first verse in the book of Matthew (New Testament) records the fulfillment of the prophecy of his coming from the house of David . The book of the generation of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham (Matthew 1:1) The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary he announced Jesus’ birth also confirming the prophecy Luke 1:31,32 "You will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David."​ All the prophecies were fulfilled literally and exactly. They were literal people, literal places and fulfilled in the minutest of detail. Jesus did not control of any of these prophecies of where he was born nor did not choose his own parents or place of birth or who his mother was or the time. God the Father ordained all these specific events before the foundation of the world and slowly revealed them to man through the Jewish prophets by his Spirit. The Scriptures are clear​ IS HE YOUR MESSIAH ? Is Jesus the Messiah Is Jesus the Messiah or are we to look for another. letusreason.org ​

Now listen:

I didn’t read through any of your long diatribe. I’ve had Christians hit me over the head with that stuff for years, insisting THEY are right. There have been plenty of threads on this forum telling Jews why they have it wrong.

The point of the thread is for someone who is Jewish to explain why Jews do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. I outlined that in my OP. I don’t need you to come back and INSIST that no, I’m wrong…..Yes he was!

No he was not, according to Jewish teachings.

 

[Indeependent]

lol Christianity is a Jewish sect.

It depends on your definition of a sect.
There is no hint to a “God as Human” who dispels all requirements.

 

[Lisa558]

It depends on your definition of a sect.
There is no hint to a “God as Human” who dispels all requirements.

Yes. The Messiah, who will be a human, will usher in Torah observance - NOT tell Jews that faith replaces the law.

(Also, did you know that the fifth day of Chanukah never comes out on Shabbos? just trying to see if there’s anything new that *I* have learned that you don’t already know!)

 

[Indeependent]

Yes. The Messiah, who will be a human, will usher in Torah observance - NOT tell Jews that faith replaces the law.

(Also, did you know that the fifth day of Chanukah never comes out on Shabbos? just trying to see if there’s anything new that *I* have learned that you don’t already know!)

I did not know that about Chanukah!

Emunah (dedication, not faith) is displayed by behavior (Mitzvot).

 

[Lisa558]

I did not know that about Chanukah!

Emunah (dedication, not faith) is displayed by behavior (Mitzvot).

yay! I learned something you didn’t! I’ve learned a lot from you and wanted to return the favor.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Lisa's " messiah" is none other than Antichrist himself.

 

[Lisa558]

Lisa's " messiah" is none other than Antichrist himself.

Antisemite says what?

 

[irosie91]

Who said anything about the cross? 'Hundreds of millions'? lol rubbish. You probably beleive that , being a racist bigot.

yup, ---HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS over the past almost 2000 years. What is "racist" about that historic FACT? Persons of all races were murdered
for THE CROSS

 

[BreezeWood]

good point ---the victim of roman "justice" was
well versed in Hebrew Literature

oh, seems they would have landed in rome were that their itinerary, roman justice - and no it was not.

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” Matthew 27:24-25

the deep end - should - know better than their obvious denials ... then again they choose the murderer and liar, tablets from heaven - moses than who they nailed to a cross.

- as not a desert patron, the choice still seem the true heavenly exemplar is more than obvious.

 

[irosie91]

oh, seems they would have landed in rome were that their itinerary, roman justice - and no it was not.



the deep end - should - know better than their obvious denials ... then again they choose the murderer and liar, tablets from heaven - moses than who they nailed to a cross.

- as not a desert patron, the choice still seem the true heavenly exemplar is more than obvious.

Crucifixions in Judea under Roman control were ENTIRELY controlled by Rome. I understand your
NEED to deny that reality

 

[GMCGeneral]

Antisemite says what?

Antisemite? Excuse me? But as a person who KNOWS YHWH personally you are wrong.

 

[BreezeWood]

Crucifixions in Judea under Roman control were ENTIRELY controlled by Rome. I understand your
NEED to deny that reality

sure, and what was the charge - that (seems to) escape the good books along with everything else for the reason the jews had him arrested and choose the criminal over the exemplar for clemency, barab must have given them a pigeon to sacrifice - in their temple.

 

[surada]

Tisha Be'Av: The Third Temple that wasn't

Did ancient Jews blow a chance to exploit the hatred 'Julian the Apostate' felt toward Christianity?

www.jpost.com