Yeah, Trump did call military personnel "suckers" and "losers"

[Couchpotato]

Um, because the people we wanted to evacuate were in Kabul, not the air base, which was 64 KM away.

"Hey, contractors, all you have to do is drive 64 KM to Bagram and we'll get you out!"

Have you ever run a NEO?

 

[JoeB131]

Why? That wasn’t done with the evac happening FROM Kabul Airport why would it have to happen if the evac happens outside Kabul?

All the people we wanted to evacuate were in Kabul.

To get from Kabul to the Air Base, they would have to cross 65 kilometers of Taliban-held territory.

You see, when Trump sold out the Afghan Government at Doha, all the warlords that had been supporting the Afghan Government switched their allegiance back to the Taliban.

 

[Man With A Plan]

The vacant Comfort hospital ship is a symbol of our coronavirus failure | Ross Barkan

The hospital ship docked in New York City is a sad representation of the federal and local response to coronavirus: too little and far too late

www.theguardian.com

Strict rules are preventing people infected with the virus from coming on board. The navy is also refusing to treat a host of other conditions. Guidelines sent to hospitals included a list of 49 medical conditions that would exclude a patient from admittance to the ship.

Ambulances cannot take patients directly to the Comfort. First, they must deliver patients to a city hospital to be tested for the virus and then pick them up again for transport to the ship. Hospital leaders rightfully find the delays untenable.

In New York City, hospitals are besieged. Patients are dying in hallways. Refrigerated trucks are now makeshift morgues. Doctors and nurses are forced to reuse protective gear, some even donning trash bags. The city is running dangerously low on ventilators and even body bags.

The ship, sitting nearly empty, is almost a mockery of all the suffering taking place on land. If it won’t treat coronavirus patients, it will hardly treat anyone: since so few people are going outside, non-coronavirus injuries and illnesses have plummeted.
Trump, a deeply incompetent executive who denies science, could not ramp up testing to create any kind of accurate picture of which Americans were infected and needed to be quarantined. Federal guidelines for social distancing came too late. Medical supplies weren’t produced. Companies were not compelled, by law, to produce them.

The Guardian, Joey? LOL

 

[JoeB131]

Have you ever run a NEO?

Not sure what that is, so, um no.

I was in the Army for 11 years as a Supply NCO, and I know that securing a long road from an irregular force is pretty difficult.

We were talking about hundreds of thousands of American Contractors and collaborators, all based in Kabul, when the rest of the country was switching back to the Taliban.

These people were warned back in April that Afghanistan was no longer safe for Americans, but a bunch of them stayed trying to pick the last chunks of meat off the bone of our failed war effort.

 

[JoeB131]

The Guardian, Joey? LOL

Your concession is duly noted. We know that you can't argue the facts.

1) That the Navy excluded Covid patients.
2) That they put so many barriers to taking non-Covid Patients, no one wanted to bother sending patients there.
3) That Trump so badly fumbled the response, that it was disastrous.

 

[Couchpotato]

Except- Trump hired him and only hires the best people, supposedly.

John Kelly confirms Trump privately disparaged U.S. service members and veterans

Trump called fallen soldiers "suckers” and "losers" during his presidency, according to a 2020 report in The Atlantic.

www.nbcnews.com

Former Trump White House chief of staff John Kelly is blasting his onetime boss over disparaging remarks he says the then-president repeatedly made about service members and veterans and for what he called Trump's untruthfulness about his positions on various groups as well as on abortion.

In a statement to CNN published Monday, Kelly delivered a scathing criticism of former President Donald Trump while confirming reporting in The Atlantic in 2020 that detailed the comments he made during his presidency.


"A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them,'" Kelly said of Trump. "A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family — for all Gold Star families — on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France.”



Well, it doesn't to you Cultists. Trump knows more about war than the generals, more about the economy than the economists, more about disease than the doctors. He can leave the country LITERALLY IN FLAMES and you guys still support him.

You do understand that that’s not Kelly saying he heard Trump say the people in that cemetery are suckers and losers right? What. Trump did say to Kelly as was reported in the original Atlantic article was he (Trump) didn’t understand what was in it for the people who were buried at Arlington. Specifically talking about Kelly’s son. That quote as a stand alone sounds awful and even in context might have been but I l’d like to hear the conversation around it as well.

 

[Man With A Plan]

All the people we wanted to evacuate were in Kabul.

To get from Kabul to the Air Base, they would have to cross 65 kilometers of Taliban-held territory.

You see, when Trump sold out the Afghan Government at Doha, all the warlords that had been supporting the Afghan Government switched their allegiance back to the Taliban.

So instead of their having to cross 65 kilometers...Joe Biden's botched pull out left them stranded in a country controlled by the Taliban with no way out. Biden abandoned our allies. Biden left behind billions of dollars of military equipment for the Taliban to use. Joe Biden is an idiot.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Your concession is duly noted. We know that you can't argue the facts.

1) That the Navy excluded Covid patients.
2) That they put so many barriers to taking non-Covid Patients, no one wanted to bother sending patients there.
3) That Trump so badly fumbled the response, that it was disastrous.

They didn't exclude them, boy genius! Requiring them to have a Covid test before granting them entry to the hospital ship was the intelligent thing to do. They put up the same barriers to non-Covid patients at the ship and the field hospital that most other hospitals had enacted at that point. You couldn't get a non emergency proceedure done at most US hospitals during Covid! Hospital beds were reserved for Covid patients.

As for Trump's "response"? He allowed the States to set shut down levels...the proper thing to do. He fast tracked the vaccines. Getting them produced in record time. He used the War Powers Act to produce so many ventilators that we were giving them to other countries we had so many.

 

[JoeB131]

So instead of their having to cross 65 kilometers...Joe Biden's botched pull out left them stranded in a country controlled by the Taliban with no way out. Biden abandoned our allies. Biden left behind billions of dollars of military equipment for the Taliban to use. Joe Biden is an idiot.

Except we got all the Americans and a lot of the Afghan Quislings (who I really don't care about evacuating, but we did.) out because we had access to that airport.

Again, Trump only left Biden with 2500 troops, most of them Service Support personnel. Biden had to send in more troops to secure the airport.

As for the "billions in equipment", that equipment had been GIVEN to the Afghan military by Bush and Obama. It wasn't really ours to leave behind. Most of it is broken down by now because the Afghans don't have the capability to maintain them.

They didn't exclude them, boy genius! Requiring them to have a Covid test before granting them entry to the hospital ship was the intelligent thing to do. They put up the same barriers to non-Covid patients at the ship and the field hospital that most other hospitals had enacted at that point. You couldn't get a non emergency proceedure done at most US hospitals during Covid! Hospital beds were reserved for Covid patients.

Except there wasn't a need for non-covid beds at that point. The fact was, due to the lockdowns, less people were going out, catching other diseases or getting injured. 200 extra beds they didn't need and couldn't use weren't any help.

But it was a reality TV stunt.

As for Trump's "response"? He allowed the States to set shut down levels...the proper thing to do. He fast tracked the vaccines. Getting them produced in record time. He used the War Powers Act to produce so many ventilators that we were giving them to other countries we had so many.

No, that wasn't the proper thing to do. There should have been a NATIONAL plan.

As for the vaccines, he screwed up the rollout, and most of us didn't get them until April or March of the following year. A lot of the vaccines went bad on the shelf because Trump had no plan to distribute them. Not to mention he indulged the fantasies of the crazy anti-Vax types, which further hampered distribution.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Except we got all the Americans and a lot of the Afghan Quislings (who I really don't care about evacuating, but we did.) out because we had access to that airport.

Again, Trump only left Biden with 2500 troops, most of them Service Support personnel. Biden had to send in more troops to secure the airport.

As for the "billions in equipment", that equipment had been GIVEN to the Afghan military by Bush and Obama. It wasn't really ours to leave behind. Most of it is broken down by now because the Afghans don't have the capability to maintain them.



Except there wasn't a need for non-covid beds at that point. The fact was, due to the lockdowns, less people were going out, catching other diseases or getting injured. 200 extra beds they didn't need and couldn't use weren't any help.

But it was a reality TV stunt.



No, that wasn't the proper thing to do. There should have been a NATIONAL plan.

As for the vaccines, he screwed up the rollout, and most of us didn't get them until April or March of the following year. A lot of the vaccines went bad on the shelf because Trump had no plan to distribute them. Not to mention he indulged the fantasies of the crazy anti-Vax types, which further hampered distribution.

Cuomo went on TV and demanded help from the Federal Government...saying that New York City's hospitals were in danger of being overwhelmed. Trump responded by sending the hospital ship and providing the largest field hospital ever constructed at the Javitt's Center. So why didn't Cuomo utilize those two things, Joey? Trump did what Cuomo demanded and then New York's Governor didn't utilize what had been provided...instead sending infected patients back to nursing homes. So it's rather obvious that the "TV stunt" was done by Andrew Cuomo...not Donald Trump!

There should have been a "NATIONAL plan" for Covid shutdowns? Really, Joey? That claim right there proves how clueless you really are! Only a truely stupid person would think that the same plan for a State like New York would have been appropriate for a State like South Dakota! Allowing individual Governors to determine what their shut downs should look like was the right thing to do.

 

[JoeB131]

Cuomo went on TV and demanded help from the Federal Government...saying that New York City's hospitals were in danger of being overwhelmed. Trump responded by sending the hospital ship and providing the largest field hospital ever constructed at the Javitt's Center. So why didn't Cuomo utilize those two things, Joey? Trump did what Cuomo demanded and then New York's Governor didn't utilize what had been provided...instead sending infected patients back to nursing homes. So it's rather obvious that the "TV stunt" was done by Andrew Cuomo...not Donald Trump!

Again, the ship wasn't taking Covid Patients. The "field hospital" only had 1000 beds.

NY was charting 20,000 NEW CASES A DAY, and they had to go somewhere. Somewhere happened to be assisted living facilities where they already lived, had staff who were familiar with their case histories, and they were in familiar surroundings... all of which were conducive to best outcomes.

There should have been a "NATIONAL plan" for Covid shutdowns? Really, Joey? That claim right there proves how clueless you really are! Only a truely stupid person would think that the same plan for a State like New York would have been appropriate for a State like South Dakota! Allowing individual Governors to determine what their shut downs should look like was the right thing to do.

yes, there should have been.

Instead, we got Trump sending goons with AR-15's to capitols that did take appropriate lockdown measures.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Except we got all the Americans and a lot of the Afghan Quislings (who I really don't care about evacuating, but we did.) out because we had access to that airport.

Again, Trump only left Biden with 2500 troops, most of them Service Support personnel. Biden had to send in more troops to secure the airport.

As for the "billions in equipment", that equipment had been GIVEN to the Afghan military by Bush and Obama. It wasn't really ours to leave behind. Most of it is broken down by now because the Afghans don't have the capability to maintain them.



Except there wasn't a need for non-covid beds at that point. The fact was, due to the lockdowns, less people were going out, catching other diseases or getting injured. 200 extra beds they didn't need and couldn't use weren't any help.

But it was a reality TV stunt.



No, that wasn't the proper thing to do. There should have been a NATIONAL plan.

As for the vaccines, he screwed up the rollout, and most of us didn't get them until April or March of the following year. A lot of the vaccines went bad on the shelf because Trump had no plan to distribute them. Not to mention he indulged the fantasies of the crazy anti-Vax types, which further hampered distribution.

And Biden did NOT get all the Americans out! The Senate Foreign Relations Committee determined that as many as 9,000 American citizens were left behind in Afghanistan after Biden's botched pull out!

 

[Man With A Plan]

Again, the ship wasn't taking Covid Patients. The "field hospital" only had 1000 beds.

NY was charting 20,000 NEW CASES A DAY, and they had to go somewhere. Somewhere happened to be assisted living facilities where they already lived, had staff who were familiar with their case histories, and they were in familiar surroundings... all of which were conducive to best outcomes.


yes, there should have been.

Instead, we got Trump sending goons with AR-15's to capitols that did take appropriate lockdown measures.

Let me get this straight...after all those people DIED in all of those nursing homes...you're STILL pretending that Cuomo's directive was "conducive to best outcomes"? If it was...then why was it rescinded?

 

[Man With A Plan]

Again, the ship wasn't taking Covid Patients. The "field hospital" only had 1000 beds.

NY was charting 20,000 NEW CASES A DAY, and they had to go somewhere. Somewhere happened to be assisted living facilities where they already lived, had staff who were familiar with their case histories, and they were in familiar surroundings... all of which were conducive to best outcomes.


yes, there should have been.

Instead, we got Trump sending goons with AR-15's to capitols that did take appropriate lockdown measures.

Trump sent goons with AR-15's somewhere? What are you babbling about, Joey? Do you even know at this point?

 

[Couchpotato]

Not sure what that is, so, um no.

I was in the Army for 11 years as a Supply NCO, and I know that securing a long road from an irregular force is pretty difficult.

We were talking about hundreds of thousands of American Contractors and collaborators, all based in Kabul, when the rest of the country was switching back to the Taliban.

These people were warned back in April that Afghanistan was no longer safe for Americans, but a bunch of them stayed trying to pick the last chunks of meat off the bone of our failed war effort.

Non-Combatant Evac Operation. NEO. One of the main mission sets of a MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) which consists of a reinforced Marine Battalion, a medium tilt rotor squadron, and all the support entities required. Not to mention the air support provided by the Carrier Battle Group it rides with. We could have put 2 MEU's (there are always 2 in that AO) on the ground, secured Bagram, moved people there and got them out without the debacle that was what happened.

Can you admit that what happened in Afghanistan regarding our pull out was a fuck story? That the people who are in charge when something is executed is responsible not the people prior to them being in charge? If this OP had been run a month after Biden took over maybe you make the argument that it's not on him but the last guy. It was 7 MONTHs after Biden took office 15% of his total term as President. He owns it. If Trump had a bad plan it was incumbent on him to change the fucking plan. Stop spinning.

 

[JoeB131]

And Biden did NOT get all the Americans out! The Senate Foreign Relations Committee determined that as many as 9,000 American citizens were left behind in Afghanistan after Biden's botched pull out!

And yet they never produce a list of names.

Because if they did, all those names would be names like "Mohammed" who elected to stay because despite having US citizenship, they are Afghans.

 

[JoeB131]

Non-Combatant Evac Operation. NEO. One of the main mission sets of a MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) which consists of a reinforced Marine Battalion, a medium tilt rotor squadron, and all the support entities required. Not to mention the air support provided by the Carrier Battle Group it rides with. We could have put 2 MEU's (there are always 2 in that AO) on the ground, secured Bagram, moved people there and got them out without the debacle that was what happened.

So all kind of meaningless when you are hundreds of miles inland flying over another country.

Can you admit that what happened in Afghanistan regarding our pull out was a fuck story? That the people who are in charge when something is executed is responsible not the people prior to them being in charge? If this OP had been run a month after Biden took over maybe you make the argument that it's not on him but the last guy. It was 7 MONTHs after Biden took office 15% of his total term as President. He owns it. If Trump had a bad plan it was incumbent on him to change the fucking plan. Stop spinning.

Uh, no, I won't becasue Trump created the untenable position that Biden was put in.

He signed the Doha Accords that sold out the Afghan Government.
He released 5000 Taliban hard cases. (remember when you guys flipped when Obama released 5 to get Bergdahl back?)
He reduced the troop level to 2500