Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[TruthNotBS]

Blah, blah, blah…..back on ignore, you Jew-hater.

The truth is "blah blah blah" to you. Not surprising.

 

[surada]

Who’s that?

From the penteteuch . Sacrifice for atonement.

 

[Lisa558]

From the penteteuch . Sacrifice for atonement.

That’s not what we’re taught NOW. We are taught only we can atone for our actions, as opposed to Christians being taught NOW that they will be “saved” by someone else. That is why people like Christian Man feel comfortable insulting and harassing Jews - when speaking directly to Jews - and think he’ll still get to Heaven.

 

[TruthNotBS]

^^^ This is the problem with the idea that someone else “takes on” your sins for you, and then you get to Heaven. Obnoxious antisemites think that can slap around a Jew with insult after insult, and still get to Heaven because “Jesus saves.”

The truth is an insult to you. If we can be consigned to corruption, disease, and death by the failure of the first Adam, then why insist that the opposite of that isn't possible? The alternative to being condemned to corruption, disease, and death for the failure of the first Adam, is counteracted by the success and perfection of a second Adam. That second Adam was a Jewish man, who kept God's law perfectly and hence, whose life became a ransom for all of humanity. Without him, we would all remain in the grave, both the righteous and the wicked. The grave was a permanent condition without the second Adam.

 

[presonorek]

2) Jesus did not fulfill the personal attributes of the Messiah:

As Jews do not believe in Demi-gods or any Supreme Being other than the one and only G-d, the Messiah will be born of human parents - with a father descended from David. Since Christians say Jesus’ father was G-d, a concept foreign to Judaism, he of course does not fulfill this.

The first chapter of Matthew puzzles me. It gives the patriarchial lineage of Joseph. However I learned from a 12 year old that Mary's patriarchial lineage is in the Bible as well.

This 2nd argument is pretty good.

 

[TruthNotBS]

That’s not what we’re taught NOW. We are taught only we can atone for our actions, as opposed to Christians being taught NOW that they will be “saved” by someone else. That is why people like Christian Man feel comfortable insulting and harassing Jews - when speaking directly to Jews - and think he’ll still get to Heaven.

As I said, speaking the truth to you is considered a heinous crime. If we can die as a result of the failure of the first Adam, then why can't we live, or receive redemption through the perfection of a second Adam?

 

[surada]

Who’s that.

 

[TruthNotBS]

^^^ This is the problem with the idea that someone else “takes on” your sins for you, and then you get to Heaven. Obnoxious antisemites think that can slap around a Jew with insult after insult, and still get to Heaven because “Jesus saves.”

You can interpret what I say as an insult if you wish. It's just the truth. More, if indeed I am insulting you, that doesn't amount to a capital offense, worthy of annihilation. Your view on justice is quite deranged. I don't care what you say about me, or how much you insult me, even with the most profane, vilest language, I wouldn't assume that God is going to destroy you spiritually and otherwise because of that. I wouldn't want anyone burning in hell, because they insulted me. Who the heck do I think I am, that just because Lisa insults me, I assume that she's not going to heaven? That's your narcissism speaking Lisa.

 

[rosends]

He had an important role, in its founding as you just pointed out. You can continue with your pedantry, you're good at that.

No, he had no role in its founding. One of his books was used by the founder. If you can't wrap your head around that historical fact then that's on you.

 

[rosends]

It also meant hatred of Arabs long before Muhammad.

the word didn't exist before 1879.

 

[rosends]

From the penteteuch . Sacrifice for atonement.

There were some sacrifices that served as atonement in some situations. The goat for Azazel was not sacrificed.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No, he had no role in its founding. One of his books was used by the founder. If you can't wrap your head around that historical fact then that's on you.

I have several books that identify him as one of the founders of the Musar movement. All of these books are published by Orthodox Jewish publishers. So perhaps you should wrap your little head around that.

 

[rosends]

I have several books that identify him as one of the founders of the Musar movement. All of these books are published by Orthodox Jewish publishers. So perhaps you should wrap your little head around that.

I'd love to read those books. What are the names of those books? Luzzatto died 60+ years before Salanter (who founded the movement) was born. One of his works is essential in studying Musar. Maybe your books meant that. I'll find out when I read them. Thanks in advance.

 

[surada]

There were some sacrifices that served as atonement in some situations. The goat for Azazel was not sacrificed.

I thought there were two goats. One was chased into the wilderness. The other was killed

 

[surada]

the word didn't exist before 1879.

Well, Chaucer and Shakespeare wrote about Palestine.

 

[Calypso Jones]

Sometimes the prophecies are wrong

Yes thats true but biblical prophecies are never wrong.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I'd love to read those books. What are the names of those books? Luzzatto died 60+ years before Salanter (who founded the movement) was born. One of his works is essential in studying Musar. Maybe your books meant that. I'll find out when I read them. Thanks in advance.

"​

Modern Musar literature[edit]​

Literature in the genre of Musar literature continued to be written by modern Jews from a variety of backgrounds.

Mesillat Yesharim[edit]​

Mesilat Yesharim (Path of the Just): cover page
Main article: Mesillat Yesharim
Mesillat Yesharim is a Musar text published in Amsterdam by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto in the 18th century. Mesillat Yesharim is perhaps the most important work of Musar literature of the post-medieval period. The Vilna Gaon commented that he couldn't find a superfluous word in the first seven chapters of the work, and stated that he would have traveled to meet the author and learn from his ways if he'd still been alive."

Musar literature - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The rabbi who wrote one of, if not the most important Musar texts in the post-medieval period, is dismissed as not having an important role in Musar or not being an authority. You love to quibble, ignoring the main point about the RAMCHAL saying that the gentile is like an article of clothing for the Jew, in his book titled Derech Hashem. I have it, in Hebrew and in English.

 

[surada]

Calypso Jones
The Bible has been redacted and amended several times. Especially during the reign of king Omri.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus did not meet the description of what the Messiah would be, nor did he bring in the world of peace ...

really, and who might be blamed for that ... having an untimely accident.

 

[BreezeWood]

You need to talk to American Jews. 90% of them are communists.

- what could be worse than a religion of servitude, christianity ... try turning on the lite hawk - open the door, just might lead to sunshine. for some.