Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[BS Filter]

Oh you are just so precious! First you tell me to stop apologizing when I didn't apologize, then you cite a passage which proves that Jesus wasn't the messiah and then you start stringing together a series of quotes taken out of context and without understanding.

Here is one example of your ignorance -- you cite BB54B regarding property of a non-Jew being equated to a desert. Had you actually studied the section you would learn that it says


This is a subtle point of law regarding ownership in the midst of a transaction. You want to snip it out and pretend it represents an attitude towards theft and personhood. You are wrong. But you can't be troubled with thinking on your own or asking questions...you copy from whatever hate site you find and then are revealed to be horribly ignorant.

You also quote (and put in bold) "BT Sanhedrin 52B: "A non-Jew is not considered a neighbor."
Except that that section is a point of law regarding whether a Jew is held accountable in a religious court for adultery if his cheats with the wife of a non-Jew. This doesn't mean that the action is permissible, just that the religious title "adultery" doesn't apply (because the non-Jewish people don't have a Jewish marriage document) so the religious punishment would be different. This is derived from the textual use of technical term "re'ah" to classify which "cheating" would be covered by religious law. Since that term is used for Jews, the death penalty would not apply to another person or relationship. The commentary of the Tosafot says explicitly that the behavior is still forbidden but the Jewish court cannot impose a death penalty.
So the text doesn't say that a non-Jew is not a neighbor but that the laws derived from the application of the word "re'ah" don't apply. Clearly you don't understand any of this but I'm hoping that anyone else who reads this and has any intellectual curiosity will understand that study is more productive than cutting and pasting without understanding.

I'm not going to go through the rest of your supposed quotes because you don't actually know them (for example, "BT Haba Kamma U3a" is a nonsense citation).
Then you make reference to a self-published book by one person which was disavowed by his former employer

Charedi Rabbis Rush To Disavow Anti-Gentile Book

Leaders of the country’s most prominent ultra-Orthodox yeshiva are scrambling to distance themselves from a book by one of their disciples, which argues that gentiles are “completely evil” and Jews constitute a separate, genetically superior species. Written by Rabbi Saadya Grama — an alumnus of...

forward.com

and you still haven't read through this to see what is considered fringe and unacceptable vs. what is normative and mainstream

https://hakirah.org/Vol%2016%20Balk.pdf

When you want to learn, ask.

Your posts are classic examples of the Pharisees actions when the people were following Jesus. Sticklers about the law, but blind guides and white-washed Tombstones who searched the Scriptures, yet didn't know Him when He was standing right in front of them.

 

[irosie91]

Have you ever heard of rabbi Tovia Singer?

I googled and found a site labeled TOVIA SINGER EXPOSED----it was a clear cut
christian missionary BS effort. Several speakers were presented who were supposed
to represent jewish converts in the IDF----none had even the slightest tinge of
Israel accent------besides which-----it failed to "EXPOSE TOVIA SINGER"

 

[BreezeWood]

Have you ever heard of ... ?

Joh 3:16-19 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

- was that recorded on a microset and preserved till the 4th century - then they burned it up - after including it in their book ... or have you the archives they left behind for posterity.

c-man, do you have your quote in its original form - condemned already - for whoever has yet to read your book ... written by jesus.

- did you make your loved ones read the c-bible for that very reason ...

 

[TruthNotBS]

I googled and found a site labeled TOVIA SINGER EXPOSED----it was a clear cut
christian missionary BS effort. Several speakers were presented who were supposed
to represent jewish converts in the IDF----none had even the slightest tinge of
Israel accent------besides which-----it failed to "EXPOSE TOVIA SINGER"

He has a channel on YouTube. I watch his videos sometimes.

 

[irosie91]

Your posts are classic examples of the Pharisees actions when the people were following Jesus. Sticklers about the law, but blind guides and white-washed Tombstones who searched the Scriptures, yet didn't know Him when He was standing right in front of them.

You are parroting Jellybean school BS . Your hero---the murdering pig--
"SAINT CONSTANTINE"-----did not like Pharisees because they refused to
lick ROMAN ASS. He also commissioned and edited the book called "the new
testament"----added to his credential is the JUSTINIAN CODE which upon which
the Inquisition and Saint Adolf Hitler's Nuremburg laws which legalized genocide,
are based

 

[irosie91]

He has a channel on YouTube. I watch his videos sometimes.

who is "HE"?

 

[irosie91]

the jews claimed he claimed to be divinity ... a state possible for a mortal in a state of purity for which no jew has ever attained.

jesus new the truth - about judaism.

check your first grade "reader"-----uhm "jesus new the truth''??? Can you cite
some writing contemporary to Jesus written by jews that claim that "JESUS
CLAIMED TO BE DIVINE"------Jews at that time were prolific WRITERS

 

[BS Filter]

You are parroting Jellybean school BS . Your hero---the murdering pig--
"SAINT CONSTANTINE"-----did not like Pharisees because they refused to
lick ROMAN ASS. He also commissioned and edited the book called "the new
testament"----added to his credential is the JUSTINIAN CODE which upon which
the Inquisition and Saint Adolf Hitler's Nuremburg laws which legalized genocide,
are based

You're insane.

 

[Meriweather]

school girl decided that Jesus attacked the money
changers in the Temple courtyard because they were short changing people.

I suppose that's one theory. I have a different one. I studied the layout of the Temple. While it is true many biblical pictures have Jesus flinging over tables in the outer courtyard where it was the norm to set up money-exchanges, etc., I propose something quite different. During Passover, the lines and waiting period in this outer courtyard must have been tiring. If I were a Sadducee and wanted to make a little extra money, what would I do? I would quietly set up a table further away, that out-of-town visitors might not be familiar with. Not far from where the animals were actually sacrificed, there were a couple of doorways. Why not have the well-to-do (for a price) bring their lambs to the doorway leading to the sacrificial altar?

The problem? What if Jesus was in a nearby room, quietly praying, and he was suddenly nuzzled by a stray lamb who shouldn't have been there? So he investigates, finds my illicit operation and knocks everything over and chases live lambs out of the Temple where they shouldn't have ever been. (I forgot to put a person in charge of managing livestock.) Jesus marches over to where I am set up, and knocks everything over, telling me the Temple is not a den for thieves! I ask you! I just wanted to make a bit of money. I would have paid my taxes! (Well, maybe.) Besides, Annas and Caiaphas said I could do this if I gave them a percentage! Best not tell them, though, that a lamb or two were heading for the Holy of Holies.

 

[rosends]

Thank you. I'll take a look at your link. I tried to attach the ebook from which I got those quotes, but the PDF file is too big, so I can't attach it.

Here is a link to the PDF (the quotes I used are from page 357 onward):

by this guy? I'll pass.

 

[rosends]

Have you ever heard of rabbi Tovia Singer?

Yes, I have.

 

[TruthNotBS]

who is "HE"?

He's an anti-missionary rabbi:

https://www.youtube.com/@ToviaSinger1/videos

 

[irosie91]

He has a channel on YouTube. I watch his videos sometimes.

A listened to about as much as I could tolerate----a few christians
claiming----' of course it's true it's written in Constantine's book---that
was given to him by "GOD" "

I suppose that's one theory. I have a different one. I studied the layout of the Temple. While it is true many biblical pictures have Jesus flinging over tables in the outer courtyard where it was the norm to set up money-exchanges, etc., I propose something quite different. During Passover, the lines and waiting period in this outer courtyard must have been tiring. If I were a Sadducee and wanted to make a little extra money, what would I do? I would quietly set up a table further away, that out-of-town visitors might not be familiar with. Not far from where the animals were actually sacrificed, there were a couple of doorways. Why not have the well-to-do (for a price) bring their lambs to the doorway leading to the sacrificial altar?

The problem? What if Jesus was in a nearby room, quietly praying, and he was suddenly nuzzled by a stray lamb who shouldn't have been there? So he investigates, finds my illicit operation and knocks everything over and chases live lambs out of the Temple where they shouldn't have ever been. (I forgot to put a person in charge of managing livestock.) Jesus marches over to where I am set up, and knocks everything over, telling me the Temple is not a den for thieves! I ask you! I just wanted to make a bit of money. I would have paid my taxes! (Well, maybe.) Besides, Annas and Caiaphas said I could do this if I gave them a percentage! Best not tell them, though, that a lamb or two were heading for the Holy of Holies.

Very creative-----BUT---the FACT IS THAT THE PHARISEES HAD ALREADY
EXPRESSED THEIR VERY NEGATIVE OPINION ABOUT THE ROMAN SHILL
MONEY CHANGERS polluting the Temple Courtyard. Furthermore---according
to the NT account----Jesus did not just have a personal fit of Pique that day---
he brought his followers with him----ARMED under his direction. The story is
told in bits and pieces----I believe in most complete form in LUKE (who never
met Jesus but seems to have been something of a biographer)

 

[rosends]

Chasidim is fringe? Many Orthodox Jews take the Kabbala position on the distinction between the Jewish and Gentile soul. I've met Israeli Jews, that weren't that religious at all, but were influenced by the Chasidim, and held this position about Gentiles having an inferior soul. One told me that Gentiles are like animals. This causes non-Jews to become anti-semitic.

If you ask "Chasidim is fringe?" then you don't understand what Chasidism is. It is not a singular group but an umbrella term for a variety of groups, families, dynasties, practices and beliefs.

Then your claim that "Many" Orthodox Jews take a particular position. How did you measure that? I work and live with thousands of Orthodox Jews and none has ever espoused or supported that position. Even the chasids I know. And the "one told me" bit? I find that equally spurious, at least in that form. There are many Jewish laws which are not applied to non-Jews, animals or chairs. Sometimes, the talmud explans that if a non-Jew is involved in a case, the law doesn't apply in the same way that it wouldn't apply to an animal. This is not about equating "status" beyond the legal application of a point of law.

Gentiles Are Human

Refuting the accusation that the Talmud considers gentiles to be sub-human.

talmud.faithweb.com

 

[irosie91]

He's an anti-missionary rabbi:

https://www.youtube.com/@ToviaSinger1/videos

that's all you have? Do you know how Missionaries to non christian
religions are treated in the Laws of your SAINT CONSTANTINE, editor
of the book called "NEW TESTAMENT"?

 

[rosends]

I suppose that's one theory. I have a different one. I studied the layout of the Temple. While it is true many biblical pictures have Jesus flinging over tables in the outer courtyard where it was the norm to set up money-exchanges, etc., I propose something quite different. During Passover, the lines and waiting period in this outer courtyard must have been tiring. If I were a Sadducee and wanted to make a little extra money, what would I do? I would quietly set up a table further away, that out-of-town visitors might not be familiar with. Not far from where the animals were actually sacrificed, there were a couple of doorways. Why not have the well-to-do (for a price) bring their lambs to the doorway leading to the sacrificial altar?

The problem? What if Jesus was in a nearby room, quietly praying, and he was suddenly nuzzled by a stray lamb who shouldn't have been there? So he investigates, finds my illicit operation and knocks everything over and chases live lambs out of the Temple where they shouldn't have ever been. (I forgot to put a person in charge of managing livestock.) Jesus marches over to where I am set up, and knocks everything over, telling me the Temple is not a den for thieves! I ask you! I just wanted to make a bit of money. I would have paid my taxes! (Well, maybe.) Besides, Annas and Caiaphas said I could do this if I gave them a percentage! Best not tell them, though, that a lamb or two were heading for the Holy of Holies.

the money changers were a necesary and talmudically regulated service. People who had animals at home but lived too far to walk the animals to Jerusalem for ritual slaughter could redeem the animals for money at home, carry the money and then buy animals in Jerusalem which would "inherit" the consecrated status of the originals through the money. Changing money in order to buy animals was important and by turnng over tables, jesus would have made it impossible for honest and debout Jews to offer their sacrifices. Assuming dishonesty among a group which then justifies outrageous behavior seems backwards.

 

[rosends]

Your posts are classic examples of the Pharisees actions when the people were following Jesus. Sticklers about the law, but blind guides and white-washed Tombstones who searched the Scriptures, yet didn't know Him when He was standing right in front of them.

and yours are standard proclamations of ignorance and repetitions of the same errors that anti-semites have been making for a long, long time.

 

[BS Filter]

and yours are standard proclamations of ignorance and repetitions of the same errors that anti-semites have been making for a long, long time.

Oh yeah, all the Jews who believe Jesus (a Jew) is the Messiah are anti-semites, huh. Funny you should mention ignorance...

 

[irosie91]

Oh yeah, all the Jews who believe Jesus (a Jew) is the Messiah are anti-semites, huh. Funny you should mention ignorance...

at what point did anyone suggest that "ALL" persons who buy into the
Jelly bean school explanations are "ANTISEMITES"

 

[rosends]

Oh yeah, all the Jews who believe Jesus (a Jew) is the Messiah are anti-semites, huh. Funny you should mention ignorance...

I don't recall saying this. All Jews who believe Jesus is the messiah are Christians. THAT, I said. Can you show me where I said what you seem to be imputing to me?