Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

Horseshit. You are using dictionary terms in their strictest sense. If it was so godamn liberal why do today's liberals consider it just a guide or a living breathing document?

Good effort. I agree partially, but here is where I think there is room for improvement.

People say - perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly - that there is small portion of "Talk Radio Republicans" who get the bulk of their information from a very small class of partisan pundits (across various pop media sources). These pundits don't teach intellectual history, they just circulate a very fixed and dogmatic set of talking points. Don't prove them right.

The Framers were deeply inspired by Enlightenment Liberals like John Locke. You should really study this stuff. The USA was born in part as a reaction to old Conservative Europe, with its hereditary privilege and Divine Rights of Kings. Indeed, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, due process, etc., were all inspired by the Liberalism that took over Europe in the 1700s and came to fruition in the French Revolution (opposed by great Conservatives like Edmund Burke, who saw the topdown social/political changes as contradicting the natural/traditional fabric of society). The fight between Religion and Science (between Galileo and the Church) was also a fight between liberals (who were championing science) and conservatives (who were protecting Biblical Cosmology (geocentrism) from Gallilaen Heliocentrism). You should know this stuff so you can properly evaluate your own political beliefs.

New Deal Liberalism is a variant of Liberalism, as is Libertarianism (which builds around the classical liberalism of John Locke and Adam Smith, but shares much of the social liberalism of the American Liberals). You should realize where all these varieties of Liberalism overlap and where they differ so you can contribute more fully.

An interesting intellectual exercise for you. Some intellectual historians think that FDR modified Liberalism (with the New Deal) as much as Reagan modified conservatism (by embracing Libertarianism). If you're going to enter these discussions, you should know this stuff. You should know the difference between say Keynes (who believed in markets and private property) and Marx (who did not). Rather than letting your thought be controlled by men like Rush Limbaugh, who don't teach the nuances of intellectual history, I very respectfully and humbly suggest that you do more historical research.
You started out with bullshit and built your foundation from there. That is called "propaganda" not an "improvement. I know leftist think like you do because you are the ones that are ill-informed and brainwashed.

You are also incredibly arrogant. Another hallmark of the left. You smear your enemies with distortions and lies, another hallmark. I'm not Limbaugh, didn't bring him up and for you to ASSUME that's where I get my conservative ideals is stupid. I suggest you get your head out of your ass.

An intellectual exercise for me? You condescending arrogant asshole! You don't even know what conservativism is and you want to lecture people from up high?

But thanks for proving the conservatives being right about liberals. You probably thought you were saying something smart, instead you came off like a jackass. People don't need Rush for that. But they do listen in and say "yeah, I know the type". You and your type made Rush Limbaugh easy money filthy rich.

WOW, better put some 'ice' on your butt-hurt 'weasel'. Londoner is right one the mark. Maybe you will listen to a F.A. Hayek, Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, Presidential Medal of Freedom

Why I am Not a Conservative by F. A. Hayek

In general, it can probably be said that the conservative does not object to coercion or arbitrary power so long as it is used for what he regards as the right purposes. He believes that if government is in the hands of decent men, it ought not to be too much restricted by rigid rules. Since he is essentially opportunist and lacks principles, his main hope must be that the wise and the good will rule - not merely by example, as we all must wish, but by authority given to them and enforced by them.

When I say that the conservative lacks principles, I do not mean to suggest that he lacks moral conviction. The typical conservative is indeed usually a man of very strong moral convictions. What I mean is that he has no political principles which enable him to work with people whose moral values differ from his own for a political order in which both can obey their convictions. It is the recognition of such principles that permits the coexistence of different sets of values that makes it possible to build a peaceful society with a minimum of force. The acceptance of such principles means that we agree to tolerate much that we dislike.

To live and work successfully with others requires more than faithfulness to one's concrete aims. It requires an intellectual commitment to a type of order in which, even on issues which to one are fundamental, others are allowed to pursue different ends.

It is for this reason that to the liberal neither moral nor religious ideals are proper objects of coercion, while both conservatives and socialists recognize no such limits.

In the last resort, the conservative position rests on the belief that in any society there are recognizably superior persons whose inherited standards and values and position ought to be protected and who should have a greater influence on public affairs than others. The liberal, of course, does not deny that there are some superior people - he is not an egalitarian - but he denies that anyone has authority to decide who these superior people are. While the conservative inclines to defend a particular established hierarchy and wishes authority to protect the status of those whom he values, the liberal feels that no respect for established values can justify the resort to privilege or monopoly or any other coercive power of the state in order to shelter such people against the forces of economic change. Though he is fully aware of the important role that cultural and intellectual elites have played in the evolution of civilization, he also believes that these elites have to prove themselves by their capacity to maintain their position under the same rules that apply to all others.

Closely connected with this is the usual attitude of the conservative to democracy. I have made it clear earlier that I do not regard majority rule as an end but merely as a means, or perhaps even as the least evil of those forms of government from which we have to choose. But I believe that the conservatives deceive themselves when they blame the evils of our time on democracy. The chief evil is unlimited government, and nobody is qualified to wield unlimited power. The powers which modern democracy possesses would be even more intolerable in the hands of some small elite.


Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone (1809 – 1898)
 
WOW, better put some 'ice' on your butt-hurt 'weasel'.
Masterbating doesn't make you look smart.
Londoner is right one the mark.
One the mark? No, he's full of shit. And my butt fine, thanks for considering it.
Maybe you will listen to a F.A. Hayek, Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, Presidential Medal of Freedom
Nobel? Is that the same organization that gave Obama a medal for being black?
In general, it can probably be said that the conservative does not object to coercion or arbitrary power...
LOL. The asshole says that and we are supposed to take him as a scholar? No. He's an arrogant prick. I can't wait to read on...
so long as it is used for what he regards as the right purposes. He believes that if government is in the hands of decent men, it ought not to be too much restricted by rigid rules. Since he is essentially opportunist and lacks principles, his main hope must be that the wise and the good will rule - not merely by example, as we all must wish, but by authority given to them and enforced by them.
Oh golly. Mr. Nobel prize whiner thinks his political enemies are opportunist that lack principle. What the asshole isn't aware of is how unprincipled his comments are. He needs to get his head out of his rectum and breathe some fresh air for a change. Onto the comedy skit...
When I say that the conservative lacks principles, I do not mean to suggest that he lacks moral conviction. The typical conservative is indeed usually a man of very strong moral convictions. What I mean is that he has no political principles which enable him to work with people whose moral values differ from his own for a political order in which both can obey their convictions. It is the recognition of such principles that permits the coexistence of different sets of values that makes it possible to build a peaceful society with a minimum of force. The acceptance of such principles means that we agree to tolerate much that we dislike.
How stupid and unaware. The left defines hate and intolerance as disagreement with them. I you oppose anything you are blocking progress! This idiot is projecting big time. But so far it's all rhetoric. Which brings up another point, for the left, the accusation is good enough. If it sounds good to their ears, it's a fact.
Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan
Wrong. The bozo doesn't know that what conservatives believe in is that outcome is not the same. Some people are achievers. Some aren't. Liberals try to even out outcome and step on liberty in order to do so. You really thought that asshole said something profound?
 
I'm attacking the source only because he is well known for not being on the level and he has no formal training as a Historian. What he wants is a Christian Nation, and that's what he presents. Facts to him are what make his case, not what is actually true.

As for Jefferson, he did an edit on the Bible with a knife and cut out what he thought was all the nonsense about Jesus. Are you sure you want to go with him?

One need not have "formal training" to study history. Barton has thousands upon thousands of documents dating back to the founding of this nation. If he's able to read those documents then he's able to study history without some liberal professor tainting his mind with anti-American sentiments and half-truths.

Did you watch the video? Barton clearly stated that Jefferson was one of the "least religious" members of the original signers. I realize that Jefferson was a deist (a believer in a all-powerful Creator) but that doesn't change the fact that he held church services in the halls of Congress and that doesn't change the fact that he helped start many churches within the fledgling nation.

Can you cite a single instance where Barton is "not on the level?" That's simply another way of saying that he's a liar. Please provide some evidence to substantiate your claim. Otherwise I will have no choice but to believe that YOU are not on the level.

P.S. You're wrong concerning Barton wanting us to be a "Christian Nation." It's not his goal to force everyone to be Christians nor is that my goal. Not everyone can be or will be a Christian (if we believe what the Bible says). What Barton is saying (based on historical documentation) is that the majority of America's founders were Christians and theologians. I'm certain that he believes that Christian business owners should have the right to run their businesses using the tenets, teachings, morals, and ethics of the New Testament.
 
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WOW, better put some 'ice' on your butt-hurt 'weasel'.
Masterbating doesn't make you look smart.
Londoner is right one the mark.
One the mark? No, he's full of shit. And my butt fine, thanks for considering it.
Nobel? Is that the same organization that gave Obama a medal for being black?
LOL. The asshole says that and we are supposed to take him as a scholar? No. He's an arrogant prick. I can't wait to read on...
Oh golly. Mr. Nobel prize whiner thinks his political enemies are opportunist that lack principle. What the asshole isn't aware of is how unprincipled his comments are. He needs to get his head out of his rectum and breathe some fresh air for a change. Onto the comedy skit...
When I say that the conservative lacks principles, I do not mean to suggest that he lacks moral conviction. The typical conservative is indeed usually a man of very strong moral convictions. What I mean is that he has no political principles which enable him to work with people whose moral values differ from his own for a political order in which both can obey their convictions. It is the recognition of such principles that permits the coexistence of different sets of values that makes it possible to build a peaceful society with a minimum of force. The acceptance of such principles means that we agree to tolerate much that we dislike.
How stupid and unaware. The left defines hate and intolerance as disagreement with them. I you oppose anything you are blocking progress! This idiot is projecting big time. But so far it's all rhetoric. Which brings up another point, for the left, the accusation is good enough. If it sounds good to their ears, it's a fact.
Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan
Wrong. The bozo doesn't know that what conservatives believe in is that outcome is not the same. Some people are achievers. Some aren't. Liberals try to even out outcome and step on liberty in order to do so. You really thought that asshole said something profound?

Thank you for supporting everything Hayek, Londoner and I said...unwittingly of course...:eek:


When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
 
=Bfgrn;8708003]

When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Does that mean that Liberalism is "domination of society" by a special interest group -- perhaps the one you belong to? Liberalism at it's extreme is Communism. What happened when the Bolsheviks ousted the "aristocracy" of its day? If you said "domination of society" by a more oppressive force then you are correct.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...

Somebody will always "dominate." That fact will never change. I'd rather be dominated by a Conservative government run by Queen Elizabeth than a Liberal government run by Mao Tse Tung.


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Yeah ... we can all "trust" Stalin, Putin, or Pol Pot.
 
Bill was vetoed, homophobes out of luck.

Well the Normalphobes got the edge this time around but perhaps a Governor with a better judgement and a touch of inner fortitude will do a better job in the future. If I were a Christian baker living in Arizona I would still follow my conscience and beliefs and say NO to anyone requesting me to bake a cake with any sort of perverted message on it.
 
Thank you for supporting everything Hayek, Londoner and I said...unwittingly of course...:eek:
So you mimic my comments and think it's clever?
When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
All that is opinion based on an assertion supoorted by rhetoric. Bullshit in other words. Conservatives are the polar opposite of what those geniuses think. We are small government free market people, libery minded and enemies of the left. For evidence we can look at who supports what. Most people don't need some self professed experts to spoon feed them. Especially when they can't support anything.
 
=Bfgrn;8708003]

When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Does that mean that Liberalism is "domination of society" by a special interest group -- perhaps the one you belong to? Liberalism at it's extreme is Communism. What happened when the Bolsheviks ousted the "aristocracy" of its day? If you said "domination of society" by a more oppressive force then you are correct.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...

Somebody will always "dominate." That fact will never change. I'd rather be dominated by a Conservative government run by Queen Elizabeth than a Liberal government run by Mao Tse Tung.


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Yeah ... we can all "trust" Stalin, Putin, or Pol Pot.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

mao.jpeg


革命的集体组织中的自由主义是十分有害的。它是一种腐蚀剂,使团结涣散,关系松懈,工作消极,意见分歧。它使革命队伍失掉严密的组织和纪律,政策不能贯彻到底,党的组织和党所领导的群众发生隔离。这是一种严重的恶劣倾向。

"Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads.
Combat Liberalism-Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung
 
=Bfgrn;8708003]

When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
Does that mean that Liberalism is "domination of society" by a special interest group -- perhaps the one you belong to? Liberalism at it's extreme is Communism. What happened when the Bolsheviks ousted the "aristocracy" of its day? If you said "domination of society" by a more oppressive force then you are correct.



Somebody will always "dominate." That fact will never change. I'd rather be dominated by a Conservative government run by Queen Elizabeth than a Liberal government run by Mao Tse Tung.


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
Yeah ... we can all "trust" Stalin, Putin, or Pol Pot.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

mao.jpeg


革命的集体组织中的自由主义是十分有害的。它是一种腐蚀剂,使团结涣散,关系松懈,工作消极,意见分歧。它使革命队伍失掉严密的组织和纪律,政策不能贯彻到底,党的组织和党所领导的群众发生隔离。这是一种严重的恶劣倾向。

"Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads.
Combat Liberalism-Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung

And yet Mao's liberal ideals elevated him into a position of extreme power. Thus ... Mao contradicted himself (while massacring millions). Ironic ... huh?
 
I'm attacking the source only because he is well known for not being on the level and he has no formal training as a Historian. What he wants is a Christian Nation, and that's what he presents. Facts to him are what make his case, not what is actually true.

As for Jefferson, he did an edit on the Bible with a knife and cut out what he thought was all the nonsense about Jesus. Are you sure you want to go with him?

One need not have "formal training" to study history. Barton has thousands upon thousands of documents dating back to the founding of this nation. If he's able to read those documents then he's able to study history without some liberal professor tainting his mind with anti-American sentiments and half-truths.

Did you watch the video? Barton clearly stated that Jefferson was one of the "least religious" members of the original signers. I realize that Jefferson was a deist (a believer in a all-powerful Creator) but that doesn't change the fact that he held church services in the halls of Congress and that doesn't change the fact that he helped start many churches within the fledgling nation.

Can you cite a single instance where Barton is "not on the level?" That's simply another way of saying that he's a liar. Please provide some evidence to substantiate your claim. Otherwise I will have no choice but to believe that YOU are not on the level.

P.S. You're wrong concerning Barton wanting us to be a "Christian Nation." It's not his goal to force everyone to be Christians nor is that my goal. Not everyone can be or will be a Christian (if we believe what the Bible says). What Barton is saying (based on historical documentation) is that the majority of America's founders were Christians and theologians. I'm certain that he believes that Christian business owners should have the right to run their businesses using the tenets, teachings, morals, and ethics of the New Testament.
Barton has been debunked time and again. I never watch him, can't stand him actually, but if you post his claims or a transcript we'll check it out. That's how we get to the truth.

The problem with Barton is that he can find facts but he has no training to draw accurate conclusions. He loses the context because he's not trained to find it. And I'm not worried about what the religious beliefs of the Founders were, we don't run the place based upon them but there's no kidding around, if they wanted a Christian Nation they did a lousy job of making one. Barton, wants a Christian Nation. That's his whole gig.

First Google hit for Barton Debunked: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/debunking-david-bartons-j_b_3936810.html
 
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Bill was vetoed, homophobes out of luck.

Well the Normalphobes got the edge this time around but perhaps a Governor with a better judgement and a touch of inner fortitude will do a better job in the future. If I were a Christian baker living in Arizona I would still follow my conscience and beliefs and say NO to anyone requesting me to bake a cake with any sort of perverted message on it.


And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.


>>>>
 
And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.


>>>>

Gays aren't race, religion [well not officially yet], national origin or GENDER [not sexual activity]. They are a behavioral cult. As such and according to Jude 1 and Romans 1, the cult of LGBT must not be enabled. That goes for making "gay wedding" cakes. Given the gravity of warnings to the faithful in Jude 1 and Romans 1, requiring christians as a matter of law to cater to "gay weddings" is one and the same as requiring them to put the image of Lucifer on a cake for a satanist wedding.

Blacks are getting plenty sick of the comparison of the church of LGBT and their own legitimate civil rights movement based on how they were born, and not later became instead. You don't become or discover you are black one day. Or switch from black to white and then back again. That's behavior.
 
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And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.
If you were right there would be no issue. Which one are the gays? Disability? Interracial and interfaith are covered and you don't get to define perversion for others until you are elected Master Overlord.
 
And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.
If you were right there would be no issue. Which one are the gays? Disability? Interracial and interfaith are covered and you don't get to define perversion for others until you are elected Master Overlord.


Arizona's Public Accommodation laws does not list "sexual orientation" as one of the types of people that can't be refused service. A baker can't refuse an interracial couple or an interfaith couple the same goods and services offered to others, they can though refuse service to homosexuals.

The cases that were the precursors to this law, even cited by the sponsors, were the Elane Photography (New Mexico), Sweetcakes by Melissa (Oregon), and Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) were sexual orientation is listed in their laws.

Funny thing is none of those States have Same-sex Civil Marriage.


>>>>
 
And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.
If you were right there would be no issue. Which one are the gays? Disability? Interracial and interfaith are covered and you don't get to define perversion for others until you are elected Master Overlord.

The church of LGBT has ordained that "sex" in the constitution means a verb and not a noun. Therein is the crucial misinterpretation. Except that outside religion, human activities don't have any guarantees in the 14th as to priveleges and protection.
 
And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.


>>>>

Gays aren't race, religion [well not officially yet], national origin or GENDER [not sexual activity]. They are a behavioral cult. As such and according to Jude 1 and Romans 1, the cult of LGBT must not be enabled. That goes for making "gay wedding" cakes. Given the gravity of warnings to the faithful in Jude 1 and Romans 1, requiring christians as a matter of law to cater to "gay weddings" is one and the same as requiring them to put the image of Lucifer on a cake for a satanist wedding.

Blacks are getting plenty sick of the comparison of the church of LGBT and their own legitimate civil rights movement based on how they were born, and not later became instead. You don't become or discover you are black one day. Or switch from black to white and then back again. That's behavior.


Some do some don't.

"The NAACP is an historic organization which 103 years ago set on a path to ensure the political, educational, social and economic equality of all people. As Board members, we take the responsibility to guide this organization seriously. One of the crucial roles we play is to ensure that our mission which helped define America in the last century continues to be implemented in this our Association’s second century.

When people ask why the NAACP stands firmly for marriage equality, we say that we have always stood against laws which demean, dehumanize, or discriminate against any person in this great country. That is our legacy. For over 103 years we have stood against such laws, and while the nature of the struggle may change, our bedrock commitment to equality of all people under the law never will."​


NAACP Chairman Roslyn Brock Statement on Marriage Equality | NAACP


>>>>
 
Arizona's Public Accommodation laws does not list "sexual orientation" as one of the types of people that can't be refused service. A baker can't refuse an interracial couple or an interfaith couple the same goods and services offered to others, they can though refuse service to homosexuals.

The cases that were the precursors to this law, even cited by the sponsors, were the Elane Photography (New Mexico), Sweetcakes by Melissa (Oregon), and Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) were sexual orientation is listed in their laws.

Funny thing is none of those States have Same-sex Civil Marriage.
They were clearly worried about it after seeing those. It's happened here long before gay marriage. A city can adopt a sexual orientation protection clause, like Seattle, at any time.
 
Arizona's Public Accommodation laws does not list "sexual orientation" as one of the types of people that can't be refused service. A baker can't refuse an interracial couple or an interfaith couple the same goods and services offered to others, they can though refuse service to homosexuals.

The cases that were the precursors to this law, even cited by the sponsors, were the Elane Photography (New Mexico), Sweetcakes by Melissa (Oregon), and Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) were sexual orientation is listed in their laws.

Funny thing is none of those States have Same-sex Civil Marriage.
They were clearly worried about it after seeing those. It's happened here long before gay marriage. A city can adopt a sexual orientation protection clause, like Seattle, at any time.

Well two things:

#1 - In Arizona, the bill would have usurped Public Accommodation measures adopted by some cities. Aren't we supposed to be about local governments being able to make their own laws? Why is it OK for conservatives to pass laws that usurp local governments, but not OK for liberals? Sound like a double standard.

#2 - Seattle wouldn't need to pass such a law as it is already illegal in Washington State to discriminate based on sexual orientation. (http://www.hum.wa.gov/documents/Brochures/PA091407B.pdf)



>>>>
 
Bill was vetoed, homophobes out of luck.

Well the Normalphobes got the edge this time around but perhaps a Governor with a better judgement and a touch of inner fortitude will do a better job in the future. If I were a Christian baker living in Arizona I would still follow my conscience and beliefs and say NO to anyone requesting me to bake a cake with any sort of perverted message on it.


And as a baker in Arizona you are not required, nor been required, to supply cakes with perverted messages.

In Arizona though you can't refuse service to customers based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability.

You realize that many in the past considered interracial marriages "perverted" and interfaith wedding, meaning discrimination based on religion.


>>>>

The issue has nothing to do with refusing service to "gays." It has to do with forcing bakers to write messages on a cake that flies in the face of their beliefs.

The problem is solved if his or her (the baker's) patrons don't discuss their sexual orientation; sexual lusts; or political leanings. Simply ask the baker to bake a cake and leave it at that. If they ask the baker to write some sort of perverted message like "Congratulations to Adam & Steve On Their Wedding Day" then the baker should be able to refuse that portion of their service based on his or her religious beliefs. You do believe in protecting the rights of religious folks -- don't you?
 

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